Which would you buy? (Help me spend my money)

[lilranch2001]

I guess my thought is, why step up to the L4060 and pay and extra $10k, instead of just getting an LS or TYM.

It seems most of the comments here are heavily skewed towards Kubota, probably with good reason. However, it takes a reasonably high degree of mental gymanstics for me to justify moving up to a larger tractor, and paying upwards of $40k, when a $30k LS or $26k TYM accomplishes the same thing.

Is a Kubota really worth paying 50%+ more?!?!?

ALL the Bota guys will say yes

 

[Citydude]

I guess my thought is, why step up to the L4060 and pay and extra $10k, instead of just getting an LS or TYM.

It seems most of the comments here are heavily skewed towards Kubota, probably with good reason. However, it takes a reasonably high degree of mental gymanstics for me to justify moving up to a larger tractor, and paying upwards of $40k, when a $30k LS or $26k TYM accomplishes the same thing.

Is a Kubota really worth paying 50%+ more?!?!?

Nope, the Kubota is not worth it if your going to be digging boulders out with the loader. Any tractor loader for that matter. Do your self a favor and get the TYM and put the money in a BACKHOE.

 

[lilranch2001]

color me wrong...
LOL

 

[Tractorable]

Kubota loaders, lifting higher than others, also extend further out in front of the tractor, creating a longer lever, so while they may lift less weight in total, the cylinders may be exerting similar forces against a longer lever, to achieve a higher height. Some folks don’t care about the extra height and reach, others do.

 

[BAP]

Do you actually have any experience using a tractor? Have you tried any of the tractors you are looking at using the loader to lift and dig? You keep referring to the Kubota loader as anemic, but do you really know that from experience? Also, do you really know if the TYM or LS loaders will do more? You have to remember, all brochures are marketing tools, so you need actual seat time to know if they are true. Also, if the TYM and LS can actually pick up more than half the weight of the tractor, they are going to need some serious counterweights to handle it. Next question would be if they put on big enough front tires to handle the weight. No matter the brand, corners get cut to meet a price point. Research on paper is good, but you need to follow up with seat time. If you are not good with doing your own repairs and maintenance, then good dealer support is needed.

 

[BRMyers]

I find it interesting that a few have stated the Kubota L3560 is not powerful enough or the loader is to weak. I have yet to find anything that I couldn't lift. The tractor has powered my 6ft brush hog through everything I have thrown at it. So, maybe i don't use my tractor hard enough, but it has met our needs on our little 80 acre place.

My guess, is most compact tractor owners are going to rarely push their tractor to the limit.

 

[MechanicalGuy]

I really don't getting the whole "Kubota is so high priced" thing either. My shopping showed it was only a slight bit higher and that was negligible if you take advantage of the 5 year no interest deal.

 

[JK22]

Do you actually have any experience using a tractor? Have you tried any of the tractors you are looking at using the loader to lift and dig? You keep referring to the Kubota loader as anemic, but do you really know that from experience? Also, do you really know if the TYM or LS loaders will do more? You have to remember, all brochures are marketing tools, so you need actual seat time to know if they are true. Also, if the TYM and LS can actually pick up more than half the weight of the tractor, they are going to need some serious counterweights to handle it. Next question would be if they put on big enough front tires to handle the weight. No matter the brand, corners get cut to meet a price point. Research on paper is good, but you need to follow up with seat time. If you are not good with doing your own repairs and maintenance, then good dealer support is needed.

Thank you. I was waiting for someone else to say it... paper specs are not worth the paper they are written on.

 

[hks003]

I find it interesting that a few have stated the Kubota L3560 is not powerful enough or the loader is to weak. I have yet to find anything that I couldn't lift. The tractor has powered my 6ft brush hog through everything I have thrown at it. So, maybe i don't use my tractor hard enough, but it has met our needs on our little 80 acre place.

My guess, is most compact tractor owners are going to rarely push their tractor to the limit.

Personally, I have an LS because I bought used and found a steal. But now that I've operated it for a while, loader strength would not have been a deal breaker if I'd found a deal on a Kubota. Even with a 700 lb rotary cutter counter balance, my front end is heavy with ~750-1000 lbs of dirt in the loader. It'll get stuck in wet grass in 2wd, tires are noticeably sitting low, slight bumps going down hill will make the back creepilly light, etc. With no counter balance, the back tires lifted and a dumped the bucket and hooked up my cutter while recovering from a heart attack. As a relatively inexperienced operator, I don't want any part of lifting the load my loader is rated for, at least if I have to drive far. Lifting a load while someone backs a trailer under it, maybe. Driving across the yard with 1800 lbs of anything, no thanks.

 

[RSR]

Thank you. I was waiting for someone else to say it... paper specs are not worth the paper they are written on.

I find comments along these lines puzzling.

I certainly agree there is more to a tractor than just lift capacity. Actually, that's a secondary/tertiary consideration for me. As stated, the tractor has to also be able to handle the weight, etc. Maybe it's naive of me, but I would assume if one brand was consistently overpowering their tractors with loader operation, you would hear repeated stories of failures that were directly related to that. I'm unaware of any instances of that, which tells me, for the most part, that's not happening.

Regarding lift capacities, numbers and physics don't lie. As a customer, we rely upon, and use them to make decisions all the time (e.g., how much HP, how much does the tractor weigh, what is the hydraulic flow rate, fuel tank size, etc.). I've never seen responses like, "yeah, but those numbers quoted for weight are just a marketing gimmick."

So, why is it whenever questions of loader capacity come up, suddenly these arguments come out of the woodwork? A loader lifts what it is stated to lift. Period. If it didn't, there would be lawsuits all over the place, same as if a tractor didn't produce the stated HP. It's a simple case of false advertising. Conversely, a company has zero benefit to understate their loader capacity. I realize some claim some Kubotas understate HP (lots of word of mouth - but I've never seen any quantitative testing) but that statement I tend to believe, because there is an incentive to stay under Tier 4 regulations, but produce more HP.


Back in post 29 I made a quantitative comparison of the Kubota loader relative to the ones I'm looking at. Kubota was less. No amount of statements about how it "feels" will change that. It's interesting that over and over again, the individuals that defend lift capacity in this manner seem to be Kubota owners ... Statements like that are no different than marketing ad that gets bandied about. They are vague, and not based on verifiable fact. If someone who has a Kubota and wants to do a controlled experiment to show it will lift significantly (10%) more at the pins than what is stated, I would love to see that. Similarly, if someone can show their loader, with pressure properly adjusted, doesn't lift what is stated I would love to see that as well. Those would certainly change my perspective. But otherwise, it makes the most sense to me to go by stated numbers, which is what post 29 was all about.

It's not meant as a personal insult to Kubota owners if their loader doesn't lift as much. It's me just trying to get a handle on how the specs compare between different brands.

 

[RSR]

I really don't getting the whole "Kubota is so high priced" thing either. My shopping showed it was only a slight bit higher and that was negligible if you take advantage of the 5 year no interest deal.

I'm sure it depends incredibly on dealer, location, etc. and yes, Kubota has much better financing terms. But for a cash purchase, which I'll be making, the actual hit to my wallet for the Kubota with the lowest HP and lowest lift capacity is $5k more than the LS, and $10k more than the TYM. When talking about my hard earned money, that's a lot to me.

 

[Trillium Farm]

I think the OP is very intelligent and is trying to do due diligence, but he's inexperienced and like most inexperienced people he places too much faith on specs & brochures.
My advice is consider the probabilities of break-downs of a machine like Kubota vs Ls TYM and others and then check where you can go for service and HOW QUALIFIED that service is.
If you don't depend on the tractor for a living and the price difference is great and you'll keep the machine forever then any brand will do. If you are planning to upgrade later and you have an off brand machine you'll lose your shirt on trade-in. Only you can decide what's best for your situation.

 

[RSR]

Personally, I have an LS because I bought used and found a steal. But now that I've operated it for a while, loader strength would not have been a deal breaker if I'd found a deal on a Kubota. Even with a 700 lb rotary cutter counter balance, my front end is heavy with ~750-1000 lbs of dirt in the loader. It'll get stuck in wet grass in 2wd, tires are noticeably sitting low, slight bumps going down hill will make the back creepilly light, etc. With no counter balance, the back tires lifted and a dumped the bucket and hooked up my cutter while recovering from a heart attack. As a relatively inexperienced operator, I don't want any part of lifting the load my loader is rated for, at least if I have to drive far. Lifting a load while someone backs a trailer under it, maybe. Driving across the yard with 1800 lbs of anything, no thanks.

Thanks for your experience. I'm not familiar with your tractor model. Does it by chance have the stupidly small front wheels like the XR3135/3140 has? That's one thing I am not at all fond of on the 3100 series LS.

 

[RSR]

I think the OP is very intelligent and is trying to do due diligence, but he's inexperienced and like most inexperienced people he places too much faith on specs & brochures.
My advice is consider the probabilities of break-downs of a machine like Kubota vs Ls TYM and others and then check where you can go for service and HOW QUALIFIED that service is.
If you don't depend on the tractor for a living and the price difference is great and you'll keep the machine forever then any brand will do. If you are planning to upgrade later and you have an off brand machine you'll lose your shirt on trade-in. Only you can decide what's best for your situation.

That is an incredibly astute, and accurate observation. Except, maybe, about the intelligence aspect.

 

[dalola]

This is your party, your money, but if I were you, I would put a bit more credence on the real-world experience of TBN forum members and what they are sharing, vs. spec's on a sales brochure. If sales brochures are your trump card, no need to even post here. Just get the best on-paper tractor.

 

[s219]

I am always open minded with other brands and I love to discover a truly good value with a new brand. But over and over with tractors at least, other brands make me appreciate my Kubotas more. Sometimes it's little stuff that you wouldn't always think about up front, or stuff that doesn't translate to paper. Sometimes its stuff you only discover after using the tractor for a while. So while I am open minded, I sort of keep proving to myself that if I don't want surprises and I want to be able to take things for granted, then stick with Kubota. In my mind they are like the Honda of the tractor world. Maybe more expensive and certainly not perfect, but they do their homework, they build a good product (with control over almost all the components from engine to HST to chassis to loader, unlike almost every other brand), and it's a known quantity for me. They also stand behind their products which can be an issue with other brands.

I remember when my neighbor got his Mahindra, I looked it over and thought, nice tractor. Then I noticed no suspension on the seat. Then I noticed the loader valves were real abrupt feeling with none of the finesse or fine control I was used to in my Kubota. Then I noticed that his loader rating, which was higher than mine despite his tractor being one size down, wasn't worth the paper it was printed on because the smaller tractor was simply not stable with heavy loads, and the loader itself had a real limited reach and height. Finally, he's had several warranty issues and they have all been a struggle (one of his Mahindras has sat at a dealer for months while they are in a game of finger-pointing with corporate). I had a similar experience with a Deere E model and an LS. On first glance they all looked good to me but it wasn't until some time in the seat that I started noticing some sore spots.

I think all the brands are quite good overall, especially if you can ferret out who makes the tractor and components that go into the other brands that don't cover the "soup to nuts" process Kubota has, and can ensure you are making a good choice. And all of the brands will get the job done, no question about it. Rural King seems like the one to beat right now, if you want one of the second tier brands at a bargain price.

Kubotas are going to be more expensive, but I feel like they have earned their reputation and there is a reason they have 50% of the market for compact tractors despite being more expensive. Whether or not that is a factor depends on the buyer and what's important to the buyer. If price is the only true reason someone passes on Kubota (I've said many times that loader specs are not a real reason**) then it's important to make sure the cost savings justify going with one of the other brands. Based on what I have seen with some of the other competing tractors I have run, the cost savings wouldn't make up for the annoyance with some of the factors I mentioned above.

** Also compare tractor weight of course. Sometimes Kubotas are lighter tractors and the loader capacity goes hand in hand with that. If you are after the heaviest baddest tractor out there with the stoutest loader, it's probably not going to be a Kubota, or at least not a B or L model (look at MX, etc).

 

[RSR]

I am always open minded with other brands and I love to discover a truly good value with a new brand. But over and over with tractors at least, other brands make me appreciate my Kubotas more. Sometimes it's little stuff that you wouldn't always think about up front, or stuff that doesn't translate to paper. Sometimes its stuff you only discover after using the tractor for a while. So while I am open minded, I sort of keep proving to myself that if I don't want surprises and I want to be able to take things for granted, then stick with Kubota. In my mind they are like the Honda of the tractor world. Maybe more expensive and certainly not perfect, but they do their homework, they build a good product (with control over almost all the components from engine to HST to chassis to loader, unlike almost every other brand), and it's a known quantity for me. They also stand behind their products which can be an issue with other brands.

I remember when my neighbor got his Mahindra, I looked it over and thought, nice tractor. Then I noticed no suspension on the seat. Then I noticed the loader valves were real abrupt feeling with none of the finesse or fine control I was used to in my Kubota. Then I noticed that his loader rating, which was higher than mine despite his tractor being one size down, wasn't worth the paper it was printed on because the smaller tractor was simply not stable with heavy loads, and the loader itself had a real limited reach and height. Finally, he's had several warranty issues and they have all been a struggle (one of his Mahindras has sat at a dealer for months while they are in a game of finger-pointing with corporate). I had a similar experience with a Deere E model and an LS. On first glance they all looked good to me but it wasn't until some time in the seat that I started noticing some sore spots.

I think all the brands are quite good overall, especially if you can ferret out who makes the tractor and components that go into the other brands that don't cover the "soup to nuts" process Kubota has, and can ensure you are making a good choice. And all of the brands will get the job done, no question about it. Rural King seems like the one to beat right now, if you want one of the second tier brands at a bargain price.

Kubotas are going to be more expensive, but I feel like they have earned their reputation and there is a reason they have 50% of the market for compact tractors despite being more expensive. Whether or not that is a factor depends on the buyer and what's important to the buyer. If price is the only true reason someone passes on Kubota (I've said many times that loader specs are not a real reason**) then it's important to make sure the cost savings justify going with one of the other brands. Based on what I have seen with some of the other competing tractors I have run, the cost savings wouldn't make up for the annoyance with some of the factors I mentioned above.

** Also compare tractor weight of course. Sometimes Kubotas are lighter tractors and the loader capacity goes hand in hand with that. If you are after the heaviest baddest tractor out there with the stoutest loader, it's probably not going to be a Kubota, or at least not a B or L model (look at MX, etc).

Very valid points. Thanks for the well thought out suggestions.

 

[BAP]

That is an incredibly astute, and accurate observation. Except, maybe, about the intelligence aspect.

You still haven’t answered my question as to wether you have any tractor experience or have used any of the tractors that you are passing judgement on!! You can hammer all the paper facts you want, but until you sit on the seat and actually do work with it, the paper facts don’t have much meaning. You say companies don’t lie on their facts and that may be true, but they certainly choose which facts to share and which they don’t.

 

[RSR]

You still haven’t answered my question as to wether you have any tractor experience or have used any of the tractors that you are passing judgement on!! You can hammer all the paper facts you want, but until you sit on the seat and actually do work with it, the paper facts don’t have much meaning. You say companies don’t lie on their facts and that may be true, but they certainly choose which facts to share and which they don’t.

The second part of your question was asked and answered in posts 1 and 9. Yes, I have sat on and driven every single tractor, operated the loaders, checked ergonomics, looked under the hood for filter placement, etc., made real life measurements to compare width, height, etc., and talked extensively with each of the dealers.

As to the first part, I have admittedly very limited experience. A few hours on a friend's B2650, and a day renting a JD and box blading with it.

 

[ProjectKing]

Sorry but this is easy answer. Get the Kubota. The grand L’s are the highest quality compact tractor made. And I think you will find loader had plenty of lifting ability for size of machine. 90” of snow blowing... cab is a must.