Batwing/BW12, sticky hinges on wings

[Overtaxed]

My new to me mower (man, do I love it!) has "sticky wing" syndrome. It's a single action cylinder on the wings and often I need to get off the machine to pull them down. I did some reading, everyone says "it's the PTO shaft" that gets bound up. So I lubed it, and then today, I pulled it entirely off the wing to see if that was the problem. It's not, the PTO shaft moves nice and easy and wing is "sticky" even without the shaft attached. So, it's in the hinges. Pulled out the can of spray lube and shot it everywhere I could, made the situation a lot better, but still not "perfect". It's like a long piano hinge with about a 1/2in rod on each wing and I'm thinking, how can I get grease in there. There are about 10 segments on each side, so, initial though was to drill and tap each of them for a zerk. Why not, machine has about 100 lube points already, what's another 20, right? Well, problem is, that won't work, if I put the zerks where I can get to them, they will break when I lower the machine. Sooo..

A few options. I can figure out how to pull that rod out entirely (which will drop the wing) clean it up, grease everything up and put it back in there. That's probably a good first step anyway, but that's gonna be a lot of work, and I don't want to do that often. Then I started thinking, what about just drilling a hole in each hinge section (like I was going to put in zerk) but not put the zerk in. Just leave a small (1/4" maybe) hole in the middle of each hinge, and then put a soft tip on a grease gun, jam it in there and hope for the best? Or some other idea that I haven't thought of? Heat up the hinge and spray it, letting the heat pull the oil in?

Anyone got any ideas? Seems like this would be a VERY common problem with this configuration, that big rod without a way to grease it is just asking to get "sticky". Kind of stupid that Woods (and everyone else, as far as I can tell) doesn't put some way to grease that hinge. Ton of force on it, it moves constantly when you're running and its open to the elements, just asking for rust.

 

[jcummins]

I periodically pour used motor oil on the hinges, helps but not a fix.

Be VERY careful. Neighboor had that problem on a 15fter. Manually pulled in down, and it caught him. Thankfully I was headed his way for an unrelated matter and found him covered in blood. I got his wife to bring their truck up, loaded him up, and off to ER. They said..... He was fixing to bleed out had it taken much longer.

 

[Overtaxed]

I usually try to push it down standing on the middle section for just that reason, the sucker is heavy. It doesn't come down quick MOST OF THE TIME, but sometimes.. It just kind of falls over, especially if I leave the lever engaged to lower the deck.

You just pour it over the hinges or you put it in a squirt bottle and shoot it in somewhere?

 

[RBA50]

You could try "Flush" style grease fittings. They don't stick out, but do require thick enough material for the thread, probably about 3/16"-1/4". You can find them at McMaster Carr. You will also need a needle style adapter for your grease gun.

 

[Overtaxed]

You could try "Flush" style grease fittings. They don't stick out, but do require thick enough material for the thread, probably about 3/16"-1/4". You can find them at McMaster Carr. You will also need a needle style adapter for your grease gun.

Well, first shot at this, decided not to drill (yet). Got a pump for WD40 and another for way oil and finally a needle injector for my grease gun. Kind of went at it in that order, shot in WD40, let it sit, put more in, moved the wings, repeat, repeat. Then started putting way oil in and then moving the wings, then a little more WD40.. Repeat, repeat. Finally, finished it all off with a grease gun with a needle injector, I can't get much in there that way, but I'm hoping as it moves around, some will find it way into the joint, especially with all the WD40 acting as a solvent to loosen up the grease.

You know, I'm kind of remembering as a kid, liquids move towards (or away, I can't remember) heat, right? So maybe if I torch on it a bit I can get it to suck in deeper?

It's working, the wings are much looser now, so maybe this is "good enough". They will fall if I'm on the flat and drive around a bit, and I can easily pull them down if I get off the tractor and yank on them. Maybe running it around will help, that joint it constantly getting worked back and forth when you mow because it's also how the decks articulate. Oh well, we'll see, but for now, I'm calling it done. I'll do it a few more times this season and see how I do, unless, of course, it gets real sticky again, in which case it's time for the drill.

Why on earth wouldn't they put a grease point, even just a hole, into these hinges? It seems like an obvious (like, ridiculously obvious) place to have an issue/seize up, especially when you realize this is an open joint, when it gets wet, it just goes right into that joint. Think that might rust up? Nah, never happen, right? Woods put zerks on zerks for this mower, the number of grease points it ridiculous, I'm just really surprised that there's a grease zerk on the threads for the wheel adjustment (both sides of it, actually), something you almost never use and never sees regular movement in any use of this machine, and not on the hinges, the the joints that are used continually when you're mowing or moving the decks. Very strange.

 

[leonz]

It will be faster if you purchase more bar stock and then lube up the pins with never sieze once or twice
a season and in that way you will drive out the pins for a certain distance then lube them up and then hammer the original pin back in to place with a brass hammer.

The problem with Piano hinges is that the even heavy grease will push out of the nearest opening if you drill out a hole for a grease fitting.
You could drive a lot of grease in the bore of the hinge with the second piece of bar stock as well and then drive the original back on place and clean up what oozes out as you work.

 

[Seven Gables]

What I've done on a long piano hinge is to use a small V shaped point grease end that threads on the standard grease gun hose, not a needle tip. Drill a small hole in the center of each hinge you want to grease, make sure the hole you drill is just smaller than the V tips so the angled V seals when inserted. Hold the V tip snug in the hole and grease, the grease will come right out each end of your hinge. You will be surprised how well this V tip and hole will hold pressure and force grease thru. B

 

[Overtaxed]

What I've done on a long piano hinge is to use a small V shaped point grease end that threads on the standard grease gun hose, not a needle tip. Drill a small hole in the center of each hinge you want to grease, make sure the hole you drill is just smaller than the V tips so the angled V seals when inserted. Hold the V tip snug in the hole and grease, the grease will come right out each end of your hinge. You will be surprised how well this V tip and hole will hold pressure and force grease thru. B

You have a link or picture of the tip your using? I'm not sure I've ever seen one like that. So you just drill a hole in each hinge and then press fit this v tip in there and shoot it in? That's kind of what I'm thinking, but, if there's a good tip for this, that would make it easier, for sure.

It will be faster if you purchase more bar stock and then lube up the pins with never sieze once or twice

Well, that was already on the list. Just drive the pin out some, lubricating it while it moves and then I'd get the entire thing with just a few inches of movement. Your bar stock idea is even better. However, driving these out is no small task. You need to pull the wheels off the wings (they are in the way) and even then, the angle you have to work in is a nightmare. I have an air hammer and a SDS hammer; I'm sure I could get it moving, but man, that's a job I really want to avoid. I agree it's probably the best way to do it, just pull that sucker out of there, put a new one in with plenty of grease/never seize and then clean up the one I just drove out, repeat on the next wing. I could do that with just one more hinge pin and they're not crazy expensive, so that was "on the list" of things to consider. But when I saw how much I'd need to take apart to do this... That's when I started thinking, "gotta be an easier way"!

 

[leonz]

The only other option I can think of for you is to purchase a small can of turbine oil or Gulf Mining Lube
and create a well around a portion of the hinge for the full length of one hinge using a bunch of heavy rags
to keep the oil in place each time to let it soak into the weldments and the pin overnight or if you have time to
lube it and let it set.

It will be a bit messy to clean up but the rags will hold it in place for the most part.

I don't know if it would be worth your time and effort to weld 1/4" angle iron on either side of the hinge with a full bead
of weld or solder and just pour 5 weight on the hinge and let it soak in to the hinges. all you would need to do is use a
lot of rags to dam up each end of the weldment.

The oil will attract more dust and chaff and you will end up with more chaff build up on the mower.

 

[1010]

As you remove the old round stock can you slide the new in right behind it from the other end? So everything stays put. The other is put cylinder stops on the wings so they can't raise up quite all the way. And lower when using.
The stops can be removed overnight and off season..

 

[Seven Gables]

Yes drill the hole just smaller than the widest part of the V tip then hold the tip in the hole straight and snug and pump yer grease right in. I'm new to this computer thing and haven't figured how to post pics yet. However if you go on Amazon and find their Rexbeti grease gun it comes with the V tip as accessorie, the gun and all is only 21.99. You don't need to pull the rod out before drilling either you can tell by feel when your thru the outer hinge, it doesn't take long at all and works very well. I do this anytime I'm needing a zert fitting but have no room for it. B

 

[Overtaxed]

As you remove the old round stock can you slide the new in right behind it from the other end? So everything stays put. The other is put cylinder stops on the wings so they can't raise up quite all the way. And lower when using.
The stops can be removed overnight and off season..

Maybe. It honestly looks like quite an operation to get that pin out, there's no "square" way to hit it, one side (front) is in a bit of a well, and the back side (which is where you have to drive it out) appears I'd need to pull the wheels off. It's doable, but I don't think I can knock one out and follow it with another one, not the way it's set up (because one end has deck in the way). Not a great setup.

However, one thing I hadn't thought about (thank you!) was putting some stops on the wings for mowing. I don't need the wings totally vertical to get through the areas I need to go with it, even 50-60 degrees would be enough. And I have a ton of stops, so I'm going to try that for sure, it's really only if you let the wings get to 90 that they "stick", the moment you pull them down beyond vertical they start to fall by themselves. So, for sure, I'm gonna give that a go the next time I mow and see if that solves the problem for me, but I suspect it will (coupled with the newly lubricated hinge, of course). I think the easiest of all these ideas is probably to just drill a few holes in the hinge and use some kind of needle type injector to shoot some grease in, I suspect that'll work for me when I get up the gumption to drill a dozen holes in there. I'd love it if I could find some kind of zerk to go in there, but, honestly, it's probably overkill, just a hole in the middle where I push grease in will probably be fine.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I have to go out and do a little more oiling today, it's hot as he** here and I left it sitting in the sun, so it should soak oil up nicely now down those hinges.

 

[Overtaxed]

Yes drill the hole just smaller than the widest part of the V tip then hold the tip in the hole straight and snug and pump yer grease right in. I'm new to this computer thing and haven't figured how to post pics yet. However if you go on Amazon and find their Rexbeti grease gun it comes with the V tip as accessorie, the gun and all is only 21.99. You don't need to pull the rod out before drilling either you can tell by feel when your thru the outer hinge, it doesn't take long at all and works very well. I do this anytime I'm needing a zert fitting but have no room for it. B

The tip all the way on the right is what we're talking about?

https://www.amazon.com/REXBETI-Extended-Reinforced-Coupler-Included/dp/B07HMYL6T7

 

[Seven Gables]

Yes that's it. The hole has only got to be big enough to just get the angled tip started in, I'm thinking maybe 1/16 or so. It will work like magic B

 

[kthompson]

Maybe I missed something here but you not only drill a hole in the end of the rod for the grease fitting but you have drill into the rod the length the grease will be coming out the side of it and cross drill holes to allow the grease to come out which I think means you will have to pull the rods out and have a way to drill a hole in 1/2 rod. Only way I believe you would be able to that is with rod in a lathe and drill be being feed into the rod. Of course the drill bit must be long enough.

Hard to believe there is no way to lube the hinge good enough that it will work fine. Can you replace the hinges with a better style of hinge? Can you not install double action acting cylinders?

 

[jcummins]

To me there's no reason that you shouldn't have zerks on the hinges of mowers like that. Zerks could be installed in a position to where they're not going to be knocked around that much and I think it would work great it just be time-consuming to drill that many jerks in.

 

[Overtaxed]

To me there's no reason that you shouldn't have zerks on the hinges of mowers like that. Zerks could be installed in a position to where they're not going to be knocked around that much and I think it would work great it just be time-consuming to drill that many jerks in.

If we're taking votes, I agree with you. Especially since that mower has zerks everywhere. I kid you not, there are 2 zerks on EACH altitude adjustment for the wings. One on each side of it. That's an adjustment that most owners will make once and never again unless you change tractors (drawbar height). 2 zerks for something that will probably never move more than once. And 0 zerks on something that moves constantly when the mower is in use. Because those hinges aren't just up and down, they move when the contour of the ground changes. Basically, if you watch the mower, unless it's DEAD flat land, those hinges/joints are in motion constantly, and with quite a bit of force on them too. They are also really "open" joints (because it's basically a piano hinge) with LOTS of places for water to get in. Nahh, no zerks in that though, even though, outside of the wheels and spindles, there's probably nothing on the mower that gets more "action" than those hinges. Brilliant I tell you, brilliant. And, not isolated to just me, I've read a few threads with "sized hinges", including one where the guy had to take a demo saw to the mower and basically start over!

Anyway, engineering snafu aside, I wanted to report back. I put a 1" stroke control on each wing. That's the end of that problem. Now the deck maxes out around 75 degrees or so (instead of 90 to the middle deck) but the deck goes up and down like a dream. The weight pulls it down easily once it's pulled a bit in that direction. Or course, I can't lock the deck up with them in place (but I never need to, this thing never sees the road, just my farm) and, it's a bit wider (probably 8' total width instead of the ~6ft it is with both wings fully folded). Still a heck of a lot less than the 12 it is all the way down, and "small enough" for the places I need to get it into where the 12' is too much to go through (gates, between trees, etc).

I'm probably still gonna drill it, but I'm going to wait until the winter, this is good enough and it's too hot out there to be fussing with that thing anymore. I'll keep dripping oil in after a mow and working it back and forth; but it seems it's 90% fixed right now. Might be 100% fixed if I mow enough with it like this and that oil I'm dripping on it works it way further into the joint.

Really stupid design. And that's disappointing because everything else on this mower is just so well thought out. It's an obvious weak point though, and one that owners should be aware of. I suspect if you shoot oil in there from day 1, or, if you drill it when you get it, you'll never have this problem. It's stuff like that that makes you wonder, how on earth did nobody catch this when they were designing in? I know, we'll run a 4 ft hinge that's open to the elements out of mild steel with 10 joints on each side. Grease fittings? Pfft.. Who needs that??

 

[jcummins]

And I think all bat wings are made that same way.

 

[Overtaxed]

And I think all bat wings are made that same way.

Begs the question.. Why? I mean, do they know something we don't? Greasing that hinge gets too much dirt in there and they seize prematurely? IDK, I'm just contemplating, why wouldn't they make that a grease joint. Honestly, the abuse that joint takes, the water, chaff, dirt, etc.. If I were building this thing, I might opt to put sealed bearings (2) in each of the joint areas so that it's not riding metal on metal and stays clean/dry inside the actual joint itself. I'm sure my new greasing system will work fine, but it's a mess and it certainly allows for lots of crap to make its way into this joint over time.

Random question, I've looked in the manual and I can't find the max wing lift height/angle when the PTO is engaged. Anyone happen to know for the BW12 if it can run with the wings "up"? I've read it's hard on the ujoints and driveline, but I've never actually seen that said in the manual (don't do it, or only do it to this angle, or only do it for X amount of time).

 

[leonz]

Begs the question.. Why? I mean, do they know something we don't? Greasing that hinge gets too much dirt in there and they seize prematurely? IDK, I'm just contemplating, why wouldn't they make that a grease joint. Honestly, the abuse that joint takes, the water, chaff, dirt, etc.. If I were building this thing, I might opt to put sealed bearings (2) in each of the joint areas so that it's not riding metal on metal and stays clean/dry inside the actual joint itself. I'm sure my new greasing system will work fine, but it's a mess and it certainly allows for lots of crap to make its way into this joint over time.

Random question, I've looked in the manual and I can't find the max wing lift height/angle when the PTO is engaged. Anyone happen to know for the BW12 if it can run with the wings "up"? I've read it's hard on the ujoints and driveline, but I've never actually seen that said in the manual (don't do it, or only do it to this angle, or only do it for X amount of time).

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They are after a share of the mower/shredder market in that size like the rest of the builders of these things.

They are simple to build with plate steel right angle gearboxes and three shaft gearboxes that can be easily used with longer propeller shafts to allow them to make a folding rotary crop shredder mower

Like the rest of them they are not ment to be used with them raised as there is a maximum angle of deviation from horizontal that they can be used with which is very small as they are used for clearing many vine crops after harvest or in potato's to knock down the potato vines and most of the these universal joints are also used for heavy truck drivelines.

The maximum raised angle can be reached only with the tractor PTO turned off as they can tolerate that amount of angle without being engaged simply due to the amount of extension and retraction created by the hydraulic cylinders raising and lowering the wings with the propeller shafts on the wings of the rotary crop shredder mower moving in unison with the mower wings if my memory of the design is correct.


The operating angle of the propeller shafts is limited to the maximum angle that the spiders/crosses/universal joints can tolerate during operation and I believe it is no more than 10 degrees above horizontal.

The 3 section folding flail crop shredders have the same limitations in movement as a folding rotary crop shredder.

The best universal joint manufactured is the Rzeppa Universal Joint Used on many brands of mining machinery which looks nothing at all like the universal joints on power take off shafts we use today. They are expensive to purchase but they capable of more usable angles of power transmission to the end use due to the design.

They have to be greased every time the machine is used and the grease must be purged through the end bells or drain holes to force out the old heat damaged grease.
This brand of universal joint has been manufactured for a very long time being 50 plus years and they are very reliable.

The smallest RZeppa universal joints are used on small all wheel and 4 wheel drive automobiles from what I remember and require a dust and dirt boot that keeps the water, fine dirt and salt out of them.