Anyone with ICF building experience?

[dalola]

A straight forward layout such as you describe lends itself well to timber frame and SIPs. I'm wary of log homes simply because of the maintenance issues, settling, and FLIES. I know many of these issues have been resolved over the years with improved products and techniques but, at my age, I wanted LOW MAINTENANCE. If you can find a standard layout which gives you what you want, I'd recommend going that route. Then take the money you save by not going down the custom design wormhole and add some unique finishes and features to your place to make it your own.

A lack of experienced ICF contractors may well push me in that direction anyway, which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

Curious to your "flies" remark.....must be a story there? That, or "FLIES" stands for something I'm not familiar with!

 

[grsthegreat]

A lack of experienced ICF contractors may well push me in that direction anyway, which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

Curious to your "flies" remark.....must be a story there? That, or "FLIES" stands for something I'm not familiar with!

ill tell you, ever log home ive been ih has a huge fly issue up here in north idaho. i really dont know why. My friend has 2 log homes, and the one that isnt used much will be covered in dead flies when you go into it.

 

[fiddlearound]

I've owned my self built log home for over forty years and have had NO problems with flies. EVER! Don't know what that reference is about. Just a safe, secure low maintenance home.

 

[dalola]

Interesting thing with the flies.... I'd have to assume a fly issue would have to do with gaps around windows, joints, etc.. where the flies get in as the weather turns cooler. One of my friends with a log home recently discovered bats in a void next to the chimney that wasn't properly sealed up. Amazing how mother nature will find every little "issue" when you get your house built. :confused2:

 

[DirtRanger]

Haven't posted here much but seeing someone else's experience with Faswall, thought I'd chime in. My wife and I just moved into our Faswall home we've been working on, DIY, for 7 years. We built a ranch style single story home with a walk out basement. What we did was pour our footings and then put one row of Faswall and used that row to be the forms for the slabs. Both the house and basement have concrete slab floors and we stained the concrete in the house. So it's pretty much like an adobe house in that the temperature doesn't fluctuate very much...when it's hot outside it feels like you're walking into a refrigerator when you open the door and when it's cold it feels warm. The basement has 11 yds of concrete in the walls and the house has 26yds. We just had a fairly sharp earthquake here a couple of nights ago and it knocked a couple of things over in the curio cabinet but otherwise no damage. My contractor friend is a good builder but wasn't much on pre-figuring out electrical and plumbing and since I'm the diy architect, we mostly had to do that stuff after the walls were up. With the Faswall, since it's basically wood chips, anything that will cut wood will cut it. So we ended up making chases on top of the walls and then gouging out the Faswall to run our armored cable and plumbing. Got really good at 'chousing' (electrician term) or gouging out the block. We got a sheet of galvanized metal and had it sheared to different widths to make nail protection plates. The outside is finished in stucco and the inside is drywall. I had to make strips of plywood to furr out off of the blocks around the windows so the drywall would look good. It turned out great! We actually had some block leftover due to some changes along the way and we built another small building, our power house (we're off grid here), and it turned out great as well. Lots of concrete, lots of steel...gonna be here a long time. Oh yeah, and we did some of our own testing, leaving blocks out all winter to see if that affected anything and also trying to light a block on fire with a torch...nothin'.

 

[dalola]

Haven't posted here much but seeing someone else's experience with Faswall, thought I'd chime in. My wife and I just moved into our Faswall home we've been working on, DIY, for 7 years. We built a ranch style single story home with a walk out basement. What we did was pour our footings and then put one row of Faswall and used that row to be the forms for the slabs. Both the house and basement have concrete slab floors and we stained the concrete in the house. So it's pretty much like an adobe house in that the temperature doesn't fluctuate very much...when it's hot outside it feels like you're walking into a refrigerator when you open the door and when it's cold it feels warm. The basement has 11 yds of concrete in the walls and the house has 26yds. We just had a fairly sharp earthquake here a couple of nights ago and it knocked a couple of things over in the curio cabinet but otherwise no damage. My contractor friend is a good builder but wasn't much on pre-figuring out electrical and plumbing and since I'm the diy architect, we mostly had to do that stuff after the walls were up. With the Faswall, since it's basically wood chips, anything that will cut wood will cut it. So we ended up making chases on top of the walls and then gouging out the Faswall to run our armored cable and plumbing. Got really good at 'chousing' (electrician term) or gouging out the block. We got a sheet of galvanized metal and had it sheared to different widths to make nail protection plates. The outside is finished in stucco and the inside is drywall. I had to make strips of plywood to furr out off of the blocks around the windows so the drywall would look good. It turned out great! We actually had some block leftover due to some changes along the way and we built another small building, our power house (we're off grid here), and it turned out great as well. Lots of concrete, lots of steel...gonna be here a long time. Oh yeah, and we did some of our own testing, leaving blocks out all winter to see if that affected anything and also trying to light a block on fire with a torch...nothin'.

Awesome info DirtRanger, thanks for sharing! Are you by chance in Alaska? You know the next question...I'm gonna need to see A LOT of pix! (assuming you took a few along the way...)

I'm curious how those concrete floors are done above grade with the ICF's....any detail pix of that stage? Did you do radiant in-floor heat?

 

[hawkeye08]

My daughter and SIL that are building looked at ICF, Faswall, SIPs, and anything they found to consider.. They house plan is daylight basement with garage in a quarter of it. The backwall (in the hillside) is 10" concrete, then the other 3 walls (1 of 3 has short concrete wall) are SIPs, then a "floor system" then SIPs for main floor, then conventional trusses and roof. They might have gone with the T studs (insulated studs) but not sure they knew about them. They are doing as much as they can themselves. They hired a guy for foundation and did a bunch of the labor. The prep for the slab is in progress, plumbing done, backfill done, compaction done, gravel in progress, foam onsite ready, slab pour scheduled July 2nd. SIPs scheduled July 8th, floor system in next two weeks..

If you are doing it yourself, figure out what works for you and what you can afford, doing research on here is great, lots of various opinions and viewpoints.

A humorous note, when we build our house using SIPs (floor, walls, roof), the inspector really didn't have any knowledge and spent some time on phone with manufacturer to understand. We had it all closed in and he said since it was so tight, we had to vent it. He made us cut holes in each room and put a vent to outside in (3" filtered vent).

 

[DirtRanger]

This shows the first course of the basement walls sitting on the footer, then ready to pour the slab with the blocks as forms, and then the slab with two courses up. We're in N. Calif. and the climate is pretty mild so we didn't do any radiant heating in the floors.

 

[DirtRanger]

First photo is basement block stacked, braced, and ready for concrete. Then going around and around filling walls. Having scaffolding inside for stacking higher courses of block and then pouring concrete is crucial. These walls took 11yds.

 

[DirtRanger]

First photo shows what Faswall blocks actually look like. They have a notch on one side and they're stacked notch to notch and flat to flat, making a horizontal rebar every 16" and a vertical bar every 8". We used regular CMUs for the footer on the main part of the house and then Faswall. Third photo shows shape of the house, an open V shape. Basement is on the left side and we put 4x12s on 16" centers with plywood then the slab over the whole thing. The black tube sticking up is for fresh, cool air for the solarium.

 

[DirtRanger]

First photo shows walls stacked and braced with bucks in all the window and door openings. We stacked all this ourselves without much experience in block work. Also since these blocks are set up for square installations, we had to do a lot of custom cutting to get the 120deg angle cuts. We burned up one electric chainsaw! But it was really pretty easy and if you could've seen the block stacking job...well, oh boy, we weren't professional block layers, that's for sure. There were gaps and shims and bulges. Oh, and we used liquid nails in plenty of places to hold stuff together. Then came the big day, got the 80' boom pumper in there and put 26yds in the walls.

 

[DirtRanger]

Not sure what's going on with this post but photos show trusses we built and put up with easy lift we rented...great tool! Then roof on, ready for stucco.

 

[DirtRanger]

This is most recent outside photo showing stucco on, closed in, moved in but still working on doors and trim. Taken in February after the only snow we got all winter...It was gone by that evening. Got the 2m antenna up...I put 1 1/2" pipes up through the roof into a couple interior stud walls so I could put up tv dish, ham antenna, etc. and have cables running through weatherhead into walls. Also photo of interior before sheetrock showing nail protection plates in place. Even with that, cabinet installer still put a screw right through the center of MC cable!
OK, that's how it went over the last 7yrs. I had originally planned on using Polysteel 'cause a buddy of mine was a dealer and even got a bunch of it but ended up selling it after hearing about different problems installing it like cutting it with poly then hitting the steel in it. Also just wasn't thrilled about polystyrene even though once it's built you wouldn't see it but you would still have a million little balls of poly around. The Faswall is just wood chips from pallets (which sometimes are hardwood) with the rigid insulation block built in. The Faswall is all covered up now too but I did leave one spot open in a closet for a 'truth window'. It's pretty easy to work with and I would definitely do it again.

 

[montanadave]

DirtRanger: Nice place, looks like you have a beautiful view looking over some terrific scenery. And nice to see someone else who drank the Faswall kool-aid. :laughing:

Like you said in your comments, the blocks lend themselves well to the DIYer and there's definitely more than one way to skin a cat when working with the blocks. The key is taking your time, planning ahead, AND leaving yourself some 'wiggle room' for unforeseen requirements. Running a few extra pieces of conduit; widening an interior wall from 2x4 to 2x6 (or 2x8) to accommodate plumbing vent lines, additional electric, etc.; or setting some extra utility boxes here and there can save a lot of headaches down the road. It's a lot easier to put a blank on a box then it is to cut in another box after the pour.

Again, thank you for posting your construction pictures and giving us a peek at your construction process.

 

[DirtRanger]

montanadave, you're right about planning ahead...we didn't do that in some cases and wish we would've put some tubes in the concrete and through the walls. For instance, we didn't really plan for the power conduit in to the house (duh!!) so we had to bore through the Faswall (concrete and steel). That's what ya get when you're the barefoot architect!!

 

[cdaigle430]

Ive been watching a couple build their new ICF, timber frame home-youtube channel is "Pure Living for Life" They filmed the entire process....including adding electrical and plumbing after the fact.

 

[dalola]

This is most recent outside photo showing stucco on, closed in, moved in but still working on doors and trim. Taken in February after the only snow we got all winter...It was gone by that evening. Got the 2m antenna up...I put 1 1/2" pipes up through the roof into a couple interior stud walls so I could put up tv dish, ham antenna, etc. and have cables running through weatherhead into walls. Also photo of interior before sheetrock showing nail protection plates in place. Even with that, cabinet installer still put a screw right through the center of MC cable!
OK, that's how it went over the last 7yrs. I had originally planned on using Polysteel 'cause a buddy of mine was a dealer and even got a bunch of it but ended up selling it after hearing about different problems installing it like cutting it with poly then hitting the steel in it. Also just wasn't thrilled about polystyrene even though once it's built you wouldn't see it but you would still have a million little balls of poly around. The Faswall is just wood chips from pallets (which sometimes are hardwood) with the rigid insulation block built in. The Faswall is all covered up now too but I did leave one spot open in a closet for a 'truth window'. It's pretty easy to work with and I would definitely do it again.

Good stuff DirtRanger, thank you so much for the pix & info! I know it takes some time to post that all up, I appreciate it!

Fantastic build site, love those high elevation views! Another unique house design as well, wondering how you settled on that? Also curious what led you to going with the concrete floor on the top level? Would love to see more pix in & out as you finish things up. (More of yours too, Montana Dave!)

Two positive reviews of Faswall, also a good sign. I'm thinking my simple rectangle should be a piece of cake!

 

[Loaderman22]

I used ICF forms for my garage foundation back in 2015. I believe they were Arxx Brand, but as I looked today, they may have been an older series. Mine were 12" by 3'-0" X 2" thick foam panels with 1/2" x 1/2" Lego style bumps (top & bottom) to interlock the courses. Think 3D checker board. Outside & inside walls were connected with these plastic spacers. I went with 8" as it was only the foundation. However, my garage sits on pure rock so I had to cut the bottoms to the rock taper. It wasn't difficult once you go the hang of it, just needed a level & a way to scribe the foam to the rock. I used a jigsaw to cut them with a fine blade & got a typical insulation serrated knife for the minor cuts. Sawzall wasn't as friendly to them, granted it didn't break any, but was a lot harder to keep to the scribe line. The plastic spreaders slide down these plastic channels that are embedded in the foam. That part was a breeze. it was helpful to put any horizontal steel in place while you are laying the courses as the spreaders get in the way. I tied the steel right to the spreaders to keep everything in place. Since my slab & foundation were all one pour, I had to backfill the interio up to the empty forms, this caused a little bow out in the deepest section, about 4' tall wall. I had to scramble to backfill the outside also, so despite what the manufacturer says, they do not hold back over 4' of fill. I used the loader to dump the stone, but hand raked it up to the forms so it wouldn't shift, this kept all the other lines straight. I also ran an open ended pipe from inside to outside @ the low spot so any water that came up out of the rock had a way to get out, the forms seal extremely tight. I used a can of spray expanding foam to seal an large irregularities between forms & rock. I then ran rigid foam on the gravel to over the top of the inside side of the forms to keep a continuous insulation barrier. Then my metal reinforcing mesh & radiant tubing. One thing I didn't like about them is the corners. They are rounded on the inside, (outside is square) so when you lay out the studs above, the outside corners are sitting on foam not concrete, so i used the serrated knife and trimmed them square inside. I wouldn't recommend if you are going more than 4' tall as this weakened the corners a bit & all that poured concrete weight could cause bowing of the corners. Not sure if any of this helped you, but this was my experience with them. Here is a photo as we got close to pouring the concrete.

 

[dalola]

I used ICF forms for my garage foundation back in 2015. I believe they were Arxx Brand, but as I looked today, they may have been an older series. Mine were 12" by 3'-0" X 2" thick foam panels with 1/2" x 1/2" Lego style bumps (top & bottom) to interlock the courses. Think 3D checker board. Outside & inside walls were connected with these plastic spacers. I went with 8" as it was only the foundation. However, my garage sits on pure rock so I had to cut the bottoms to the rock taper. It wasn't difficult once you go the hang of it, just needed a level & a way to scribe the foam to the rock. I used a jigsaw to cut them with a fine blade & got a typical insulation serrated knife for the minor cuts. Sawzall wasn't as friendly to them, granted it didn't break any, but was a lot harder to keep to the scribe line. The plastic spreaders slide down these plastic channels that are embedded in the foam. That part was a breeze. it was helpful to put any horizontal steel in place while you are laying the courses as the spreaders get in the way. I tied the steel right to the spreaders to keep everything in place. Since my slab & foundation were all one pour, I had to backfill the interio up to the empty forms, this caused a little bow out in the deepest section, about 4' tall wall. I had to scramble to backfill the outside also, so despite what the manufacturer says, they do not hold back over 4' of fill. I used the loader to dump the stone, but hand raked it up to the forms so it wouldn't shift, this kept all the other lines straight. I also ran an open ended pipe from inside to outside @ the low spot so any water that came up out of the rock had a way to get out, the forms seal extremely tight. I used a can of spray expanding foam to seal an large irregularities between forms & rock. I then ran rigid foam on the gravel to over the top of the inside side of the forms to keep a continuous insulation barrier. Then my metal reinforcing mesh & radiant tubing. One thing I didn't like about them is the corners. They are rounded on the inside, (outside is square) so when you lay out the studs above, the outside corners are sitting on foam not concrete, so i used the serrated knife and trimmed them square inside. I wouldn't recommend if you are going more than 4' tall as this weakened the corners a bit & all that poured concrete weight could cause bowing of the corners. Not sure if any of this helped you, but this was my experience with them. Here is a photo as we got close to pouring the concrete.
View attachment 618250

Thanks Loaderman, all info is appreciated, as I'll be in research mode for the next several years.... So much to learn!

 

[Loaderman22]

Thanks Loaderman, all info is appreciated, as I'll be in research mode for the next several years.... So much to learn!

You're welcome. I just bought them & went for it. If you have any carpentry or building skills, they are not that bad to assemble, just remember, concrete flows, so you need to keep it tight together. If the rock you're building on is uneven, have some gravel handy to shovel around the forms & some spray foam to seal in the concrete.