Age old question.. hire or purchase.

[USAFpj]

Hello, guys. Again looking to TBN for advice.

44 years old and own one tractor- a 50's Ford that's dedicated for bush hogging. Acreage I'm responsible for is a minimum of 6 acres, but being my Dad's only Son, possibly up to 160 acres of mixed hardwoods with food plots, log roads, and streams- we both inhabit the same land, so I feel I'm responsible for the upkeep now.

I know that a tractor will always be useful for this kind of property, but here's my situation: The one major project I'm looking at is clearing 40yr old growth from a 5 acre lake bed, to re-establish the lake. Tree size averages 8-10in, and is mostly Yellow poplar; not very dense. I will eventually do this through the hiring of an experienced professional to build the proper dam, grade, and soil work.

If I buy a Kubota M59/62, I can clear this acreage myself, but that leaves zero wiggle room for any other portion of the lake construction. However, if I spend the $30K to get the lake built back, then that money is gone, with nothing to show for it.. After the land clearing is done, not really sure if I'll need something as large as the M59/62??

I don't mind saving money, and don't necessarily have to make a decision NOW, but I feel a bit pressured as I'd love to get this lake built up as my Grandmother is still alive and can remember decades of swimming in that lake, and Dad sure would like to see it get built up as well...


You have $30K in your pocket- do you buy the tractor and save for the remainder of the project over years, or do you give it all to the construction company now?

 

[Turbys_1700]

If you have the time buy the tractor and do it yourself. If you don't have the time hire it out. If you are mechanically inclined and can do you own repairs that has to be considered also. Hiring it out relieves you of the pressure of getting it done. How old is your grandfather? How is his health? That may play into getting it done faster with a hire out for the job.

 

[USAFpj]

Hey Turby- Grandmother is 87 and in great health; Dad is 65 and is still recovering from Cancer surgery. Yes, it weighs on my mind..

 

[Diggin It]

You have $30K in your pocket- do you buy the tractor and save for the remainder of the project over years, or do you give it all to the construction company now?

I'd leave the $30K in my bank or investment account, finance the tractor at low interest or 0% if possible. That leaves some money to hire someone to do parts of the work as you go. At some point you reconsider if you need that size machine or if it's time to sell and get something smaller.

All that said, I've read some cautions about working around old water areas. The bed may not be as solid as you think. Even to walk on or take a small machine may seem OK, but a larger heavier machine can break though the top several harder inches into something much softer and less predictable.

 

[mddorange]

Hey PJ, you can have the lake built now and buy the tractor you will need for upkeep and future projects with 0% financing and have both.

You definitely need to make sure all the tree stumps are removed from the lake bed before completing the dam.

 

[USAFpj]

I hear ya, guys. Forgive my ignorance on financing, but isn't the bank going to want a percentage down, or is that only if you have less than stellar credit?

I'll heed the warning on soft ground- I'll be digging some test holes to check soil condition in July.

 

[radioman]

Hmm talk to dealer about financing. Not the bank. Typically the dealers have 0 interest which is every one is trying to say.

 

[USAFpj]

Understood. I guess I look at the dealer as a bank- especially on a $60K purchase. Do dealers want to see any cash down, then?

 

[Zebrafive]

I would RENT equipment to the do the clearing, possibly an excavator and wide track bulldozer for a month. 90 acres sold by my farm and new owner hired it cleared. They had two excavators, and three bulldozers there most of one summer. They cleared, burned, and buried rocks. They did not try and save any trees for firewood. I heard cost was $90K, $1K per acre

 

[Gary Fowler]

I am never a fan of hiring something done that I can do myself. However, regarding purchasing a new M62, you can get a full size backhoe used that is in fair shape for less than $10K and it will do far more than the largest Kubota.

If after doing your test holes you determine that a tractor will stand up on the ground, go for a used commercial backhoe with a thumb. You can also use it to dig out the muck in the bottom of the lake which I am sure will require lots more work than just removing the trees and stumps. A lake that your grandmother swam in as a kid will have several feet if not yards of deep muck that has accumulated over the century of its existence from decaying matter. This really needs to be removed in order to have a good lake bed.
This is really a big job and might require an excavator and dump truck to haul off the refuse.

OR, you could just cut down the trees, leave some stump above ground for the fish to habitat and just repair the dam. This would be the least expensive option and unless you are going to muck it out, that is really all you need to do as long as water will cover the stumps. You may need to dig out the few stumps that are along the bank or shallow areas, but for the deeper stuff, just leave the stumps. Remove all the cut down trees to a burn area, dont burn them in the lake bed as the ashes would substantially contaminate the water.

When lakes are built, they generally just log the timber that is of value and leave everything else standing for cover for the fish to hide in. That is what I would do if it is a large area and deep enough to hide the stumps. Building the dam is going to be enough of a chore to do by yourself as it is. This requires some good clay soil to hold the dam and it may need to be imported if you dont have that available at site. Consider the cost of this in your estimate to restore the lake.

 

[CobyRupert]

If I buy a Kubota M59/62, I can clear this acreage myself, but that leaves zero wiggle room for any other portion of the lake construction. However, if I spend the $30K to get the lake built back, then that money is gone, with nothing to show for it.. After the land clearing is done, not really sure if I'll need something as large as the M59/62??

I think you answered it right there. The money will be gone.
If you don't need the M59/62 after the land is cleared, you can always sell it. Either way, you still have most of your $30,000 (either as cash or in the form of a tractor) and cleared land.

...but like Gary points out, can you do everything you want to do with a M59/62?

 

[Jchonline]

Understood. I guess I look at the dealer as a bank- especially on a $60K purchase. Do dealers want to see any cash down, then?

I bought the M62 last year. You dont need any money down through Kubota. You will need decent credit to get financing. You will need insurance for the duration of the loan. Kubota offers that, but you can also get a rider from USAA or whomever you choose.

As far as the machine, it is a workhorse. However it isnt huge so that makes it pretty useful for many other farm related tasks. No cruise control (which is something most like for field work or mowing). For everything else it is great.

I dont think Kubota finances used machines, so the M59 is out if you want to use them.

 

[EddieWalker]

...The one major project I'm looking at is clearing 40yr old growth from a 5 acre lake bed, to re-establish the lake. Tree size averages 8-10in, and is mostly Yellow poplar; not very dense. I will eventually do this through the hiring of an experienced professional to build the proper dam, grade, and soil work.

If I buy a Kubota M59/62, I can clear this acreage myself, ...

Owning a backhoe will prove to be one of the most useful things that you will ever have. It comes in handy for stuff you never imagine!!! Why the small Kubota instead of a full sized yellow iron backhoe?

It's a swiss army knife of tractors. But it's not the best tool for any one job. It also requires more maintenance then a regular tractor, and it has more things that will go wrong on it then a regular tractor.

Since your main goal for having a tractor long term is to maintain the land by bush hogging it, and not clear any more land then the five acres for the lake site, I don't think that I would buy the backhoe. I have one and cant imagine not having it, but it does sit for a very long time without anything to use it for.

What does it cost to rent a mid sized excavator?

How soft is the silt at the bottom of the lake site? Some dry ponds never actually dry out and they are more like quicksand for tractors that will ruin your life if you drive across them.

How much will you save by clearing the site before rebuilding the dam, compared to having them clear it while building the dam?

How much time do you have to clear five acres? When I built my 4.5 acre pond, I cleared 7 acres of land that was pretty thick. That took me several months working at it 7 days a week with my dad helping most of the time. Getting the trees out of the ground was one part of it, but keeping the burn pile going in the middle of the pond site was also a huge challenge. An excavator would have be a huge benefit instead of my backhoe so I could have picked up and worked the trees in the fire better. I didn't have a grapple then and that would have helped too. I ended up with a massive amount of dirt mixed in with the ash after it was all burned up that also became a huge project getting it out of the pond site.

 

[USAFpj]

Gary- of all of the research on lake building, I didn't see where leaving stumps was an option. The lake was roughly 5.5ac, and stood for 20 years; was 12ft deep at the deepest. Clay and loam is what makes up a majority of our soil as well.

I'll have to research leaving the stumps, as I just did not ever see that as an option due to possible leaking in those areas. However, its fed by 2 creeks, so leaking shouldn't be an issue..

 

[TractorGuy]

Different folks have different time constraints and motivation. I had 5 acres clear cut in 2015. Bought myself a backhoe in 2016 and retired at the same time. Figured I would have it all dug out and cleaned up in a couple of years. I'm about half done. :banghead: I need to get off this computer and go get IN the backhoe!

Here are some thoughts:

If you hire it done get several estimates and have a WRITTEN contract designating what will be done on what time frame and at what cost. DO NOT leave room for maybes. I had my trees cut on a handshake. They paid me $1500 less than they estimated and left behind a $25,000 mess. They said they would leave small manageable piles and left two mountains with the rest of the land strewn with logs and debris. The business owner shrugged his shoulders and said he had a new guy that didn't know how they worked then he drove away.

If you rent equipment get a large enough excavator or dozier to walk through the job. Don't waste time with a mini. Get insurance to cover any possible breakdown or accident.

 

[USAFpj]

Thank you for the responses- a lot to think about, and even more that I didn't. Love gathering the information though, for an informed and confident plan!

 

[Reb954]

Talk to a logging company, see if there is enough timber in the lake to cover the cost of clearing it. They may be willing to do a trade.

I'd be very cautious about having any equipment out in the lake bed.

 

[USAFpj]

Eddie- my only hesitation on the full size TLB is twofold- the amount of time dedicated to fixing/maintaining older equipment, and that this property has a lot of jeep trails and logging roads that I would like to keep open.

 

[BHD]

I would guess it would cost more to clear it than to buy the tractor,

most likely one does not have to buy new, one could buy a older John deere 4020 farm tractor for under $10,000, other brands one may be able to get for under $5,000, they would have more HP, most ever thing from 1970 up has three point, PTO, and good hydraulics, they most likely would be bigger than a utility tractor, but may fit your needs just right, both of my OLD JD 4020's are well used, they both have about 10,000 hours on them, but both are in good shape, and can go farm right now, I have one with a loader, (JD 4020 of that vintage, have a light front end on ithm, use caution with a loader), and one with out, both serve me well, many farms use the older about 100 hp tractors for a large utility tractor, mowing, loader work), baling and so on,

something to consider, IMO

https://www.tractorhouse.com/listin...y=usa&eventtype=for-sale&state=south+carolina

 

[Jstpssng]

If you finance, don’t rule out other sources. Going through a third party would allow you to buy used or even a private sale. When I was looking two years ago I compared the total cost going through Kubota with 0% vs my Credit Union with 2.25%; with their cash incentives and my down payment the total cost came out the same up to a 48 month term... the savings would have been when I paid off the loan early. I ended up buying a 2 YO machine which was much easier since the financing was already in place