Price Check Price Check Comparison CK2610HST vs L2501HST

[CMV]

I was kind of opposite but looking at a hair bigger comparing L3301 head to head with CK3510. Speced both the same for apples:apples as much as possible. I was surprised at how competitive Kubota pricing was - at least around here - but was expecting some huuuuge discount for Kioti, LS, Mahinda, etc, but prices were so close, that wasn't what was separating them. Once you get into bigger ones or start adding bells & whistles there's a separation.

Be careful comparing Kioti & Kubota loaders based on spec sheets. I love my Kioti and it's loader does everything I ask. But I can remove my fanboy glasses and have no problem stating "Kubota loaders are better overall". a Kubota loader moves faster, operates more smoothly, and raise/uncurl or lower/curl function is much better on a Kubota loader. I'm not saying Kioti loaders are bad, just that in comparison to best in industry (my opinion from very small sample size of many competing brands) they aren't the same and definitely not "better" overall. Maybe 1-2 items on a spec sheet better, but not in real world use. KL4030 vs LA525 loaders - both are very capable and very similar. I also wonder why you couldn't put the KL4010 on the CK2610 and dealers were telling people it voided warranty or simply wouldn't do it, then all the sudden there's KL4030 with same specs and now its ok to put the CK3510's & CK4010's loader on the CK2610. What changed? Makes me wonder if there isn't a mismatch there & KL4030 is a bit too much for it?

Anyway, either way you're going to be in a good machine. So you're doing right thing going with what fits better. I share your opinion that operator station on a CK is better than an L - easier on/off machine, dual pedal vs treadle, better seat, etc. I might be forgetting something, but don't recall anything standard on the L that the CK didn't have but the CK did have things standard that were upcharges for the L. Choice of tire type, filled rears, mirror - little things like that weren't upcharges on Kioti. Kioti has longer warranty overall, but the +1 year loader warranty would be nice too - those are typically 1 year & that's it - for all brands.

 

[wassup8687]

I bought a Kioti CK2610HST a year ago and have over 110 hours on it already.

I love this machine. It's done everything I've asked of it and I've had no problems.

I've used a tiller, 2 bottom plow, post hole digger, carry all, boom, pallet forks, landscape rake, and middle buster. It's reliable and I can depend on it pulling logs and having the carry all completely full of logs transporting from the woods to the barn.

I'd get one again in a heartbeat.

 

[toukow]

I was kind of opposite but looking at a hair bigger comparing L3301 head to head with CK3510. Speced both the same for apples:apples as much as possible. I was surprised at how competitive Kubota pricing was - at least around here - but was expecting some huuuuge discount for Kioti, LS, Mahinda, etc, but prices were so close, that wasn't what was separating them. Once you get into bigger ones or start adding bells & whistles there's a separation.

Be careful comparing Kioti & Kubota loaders based on spec sheets. I love my Kioti and it's loader does everything I ask. But I can remove my fanboy glasses and have no problem stating "Kubota loaders are better overall". a Kubota loader moves faster, operates more smoothly, and raise/uncurl or lower/curl function is much better on a Kubota loader. I'm not saying Kioti loaders are bad, just that in comparison to best in industry (my opinion from very small sample size of many competing brands) they aren't the same and definitely not "better" overall. Maybe 1-2 items on a spec sheet better, but not in real world use. KL4030 vs LA525 loaders - both are very capable and very similar. I also wonder why you couldn't put the KL4010 on the CK2610 and dealers were telling people it voided warranty or simply wouldn't do it, then all the sudden there's KL4030 with same specs and now its ok to put the CK3510's & CK4010's loader on the CK2610. What changed? Makes me wonder if there isn't a mismatch there & KL4030 is a bit too much for it?

Anyway, either way you're going to be in a good machine. So you're doing right thing going with what fits better. I share your opinion that operator station on a CK is better than an L - easier on/off machine, dual pedal vs treadle, better seat, etc. I might be forgetting something, but don't recall anything standard on the L that the CK didn't have but the CK did have things standard that were upcharges for the L. Choice of tire type, filled rears, mirror - little things like that weren't upcharges on Kioti. Kioti has longer warranty overall, but the +1 year loader warranty would be nice too - those are typically 1 year & that's it - for all brands.

wassup8687: Thanks for input, it seems most who have purchased this relatively new model are happy. I'm sure I'll be the same.

CMV: Thanks for the well reasoned input. Haven't heard the comments on the loader operation that you state, and is not a deal breaker for me. I noticed in the Kubota video I reference below, he states you can't raise and curl the Kioti like you can the Kubota. I didn't know that either. I was not aware that loaders are typically one year warranty, so better start paying more attention to the details!

I noticed in the Kubota brochure that when they show a plan view, they choose to use a geared tractor for that photo, and show the treadle separately. Per Neil at Messicks video, 95% of Kubota sales are HST. The treadle seems to take up a lot of deck space in the photo I've attached (not trying to start a two pedal/treadle debate here in any shape or form). I've read how everybody has their favorite, and the different ways the treadle can be operated, which has its advantages.

Again, my criteria is QUITE different from many, that being simply power steering and ease on and off. I thought these videos show a pretty good comparison, with the Kioti way ahead in my view.

The Kioti at 15 seconds into video:
Kioti CK 261 HST - YouTube

The Kubota at 2:35 into video:
218 KUBOTA L251HST For Sale - YouTube

To be honest, I WANT to like the Kubota better, because I've wanted one for the last 10 years. I'm even going to go back there a third time just to confirm my feelings on the ergonomics. I'm also coming from a lack of parts availability with my Ford 1700 which I'd like to avoid, but reading here have not seen too much to be concerned about. I'm under the impression that Kioti makes most of their own parts, as does Kubota. Of course, time will tell in 15 years if there will be issues, but I doubt I'll have to worry about that then. It will be the heirs problem I'm a fairly skilled mechanic with complete shop including lift, so if my dealer goes out of business, I figure I'll install most any part that is required. If it's major, I'll have to transport it. I was disappointed to read comments that not all Kioti shops will provide warranty service, unless purchased from them. I agree with comments that Kioti should slam the door on such a B.S. approach by their dealers. I asked my closest dealer and he appeared surprised by the question, saying he would of course provide warranty service regardless.

The availability of the backhoe subframe is another advantage of the Kioti. I doubt I'll have much use for one, but once you have it, I hate to give it up. Kubota says sell mine, and buy a $8,000 Kubota model (dealer stated price, probably high).

I thought it interesting that Kubota dealer said the linked accelerator was not available. Not sure I'll use it, but I'm ordering all the bells and whistles.

I've attempted to post my spreadsheet with pricing, using quotes from one Kioti dealer, and the much cheaper of two Kubota dealers. NOTE: 1. no taxes included. 2. Those prices are actually NOT for Top N Tilt either, they are only for hydraulic top links for both models. 3. The Kubota dealer 50 hour service was $350 plus $200 transport (cheap for the distance involved). Kioti dealers says he'd probably do it at my house. 4. Kioti dealer claims he's not charging any labor on the accessories, Kubota prices include labor. 5. The Kubota price was not negotiated whatsoever, but the Kioti was (I'm lousy at this though). In fairness to Kubota, I did not request quotes for some of the options, so do not even know if they are offered for this model.

Forgive the 'catch all' type post, but I've spent a ton of time researching this, so thought I'd toss it out there for others in the same boat. Thanks to all of you for the education, Toukow

 

[wagne223]

I decided that $1700 was not enough savings to take the risk on an up and coming brand.

"Since the first KIOTI tractor was introduced in the U.S. in 1986, KIOTI has aligned itself among the nation’s leading tractor brands."


They have been up and coming for about 33 years now!

I'm not into brand bashing, and I try to be optimistic saying they are "up and coming"

We all know the fact is, in this class of tractor, that Kubota has 50 percent of the market share, JD 25 percent and all other brands share the remaining 25 percent.
(Note all percentages are estimated as I did not pull the data today but am going off memory from previous research.)

 

[Tractorable]

I’m in the market for a Kubota L3560HSTC but I must say the new Kioti DK4210SE HC is mighty tempting. Nice machine.

 

[CPTKILLER]

I have a Kioti and it's fine.

Regardless of what you pick up, look long and hard at the dealer. You will need their support.

Most parts can be mail ordered.

 

[toukow]

I'm not into brand bashing, and I try to be optimistic saying they are "up and coming"

We all know the fact is, in this class of tractor, that Kubota has 50 percent of the market share, JD 25 percent and all other brands share the remaining 25 percent.
(Note all percentages are estimated as I did not pull the data today but am going off memory from previous research.)

I'm not here to defend any brand, simply trying to understand the risks of buying this brand, and what constitutes a reasonable price. Having never bought a new tractor previously, I have to say that given Kioti has been in the US as long as they have, and appears to have made their own engines for the entire time (just a quick scan of models on Tractordata.com), that carries some weight with me. Perhaps I'm misguided, but 'You pays your money, you takes your chances'.

I did stop by the Kubota dealer for a third time, and I'm glad I did. I know for sure I'm NOT buying the 2501. It just doesn't work for me ergonomically getting in and out with the treadle pedal. Obviously, a very personal criteria that I'm not going to override due to wanting to buy a particular brand name or perceived resale considerations. But it was a significant milestone, because as I said, I'd always wanted one. Toukow

 

[The Fred]

Get the rubber floor mat you'll love it.

 

[MaineGuy1]

wassup8687: Thanks for input, it seems most who have purchased this relatively new model are happy. I'm sure I'll be the same.

CMV: Thanks for the well reasoned input. Haven't heard the comments on the loader operation that you state, and is not a deal breaker for me. I noticed in the Kubota video I reference below, he states you can't raise and curl the Kioti like you can the Kubota. I didn't know that either. I was not aware that loaders are typically one year warranty, so better start paying more attention to the details!

I noticed in the Kubota brochure that when they show a plan view, they choose to use a geared tractor for that photo, and show the treadle separately. Per Neil at Messicks video, 95% of Kubota sales are HST. The treadle seems to take up a lot of deck space in the photo I've attached (not trying to start a two pedal/treadle debate here in any shape or form). I've read how everybody has their favorite, and the different ways the treadle can be operated, which has its advantages.

Again, my criteria is QUITE different from many, that being simply power steering and ease on and off. I thought these videos show a pretty good comparison, with the Kioti way ahead in my view.

The Kioti at 15 seconds into video:
Kioti CK 261 HST - YouTube

The Kubota at 2:35 into video:
218 KUBOTA L251HST For Sale - YouTube

To be honest, I WANT to like the Kubota better, because I've wanted one for the last 10 years. I'm even going to go back there a third time just to confirm my feelings on the ergonomics. I'm also coming from a lack of parts availability with my Ford 1700 which I'd like to avoid, but reading here have not seen too much to be concerned about. I'm under the impression that Kioti makes most of their own parts, as does Kubota. Of course, time will tell in 15 years if there will be issues, but I doubt I'll have to worry about that then. It will be the heirs problem I'm a fairly skilled mechanic with complete shop including lift, so if my dealer goes out of business, I figure I'll install most any part that is required. If it's major, I'll have to transport it. I was disappointed to read comments that not all Kioti shops will provide warranty service, unless purchased from them. I agree with comments that Kioti should slam the door on such a B.S. approach by their dealers. I asked my closest dealer and he appeared surprised by the question, saying he would of course provide warranty service regardless.

The availability of the backhoe subframe is another advantage of the Kioti. I doubt I'll have much use for one, but once you have it, I hate to give it up. Kubota says sell mine, and buy a $8,000 Kubota model (dealer stated price, probably high).

I thought it interesting that Kubota dealer said the linked accelerator was not available. Not sure I'll use it, but I'm ordering all the bells and whistles.

I've attempted to post my spreadsheet with pricing, using quotes from one Kioti dealer, and the much cheaper of two Kubota dealers. NOTE: 1. no taxes included. 2. Those prices are actually NOT for Top N Tilt either, they are only for hydraulic top links for both models. 3. The Kubota dealer 50 hour service was $350 plus $200 transport (cheap for the distance involved). Kioti dealers says he'd probably do it at my house. 4. Kioti dealer claims he's not charging any labor on the accessories, Kubota prices include labor. 5. The Kubota price was not negotiated whatsoever, but the Kioti was (I'm lousy at this though). In fairness to Kubota, I did not request quotes for some of the options, so do not even know if they are offered for this model.

Forgive the 'catch all' type post, but I've spent a ton of time researching this, so thought I'd toss it out there for others in the same boat. Thanks to all of you for the education, Toukow

Not sure if the Kioti also has the hump in the middle of the floor, but you having a size 14 foot will hate it. My size 12 hated them when I sat on them. You may want to upgrade to a more premium model that is flat

 

[JimHbar]

toukow:

Another engineer (mechanical) here, that is/was in the same situation.. I've decided to replace my 20year old NH TC25, and was initially looking for something just a bit smaller. I researched the colours that had dealers within range - green, and two flavours of orange.
I purchased the CK2610H, with the KL2610 loader yesterday.

First, regarding the KL2610 vs KL4030 loaders..
- I've read in various threads that the 4030 is the stronger, but lighter loader - however, the brochures advertise it to weigh 959/981 lbs vs the 2610's 915/928 lbs.. Don't know where the lighter comes from.
- All those same threads say the KL4030 is "stronger", and is rated at 1835lbs, vs the 1252lbs of the KL2610, HOWEVER the KL2610 number is at full height (98.4" to pivot pin), but the number for the 4030 is given at a 59.84" pivot pin height.. Those numbers should not be compared. My old TC25 with 7308 loader was rated for something less than 800lbs at full height, and has more than enough power for that tractor (similar size, a little bit lighter).
- The KL4030 has a boom raise cycle time of 3.9 seconds with a pressure of 2560 psi at 6.9 gpm - The KL2610's numbers are 4.8 sec at 2560 psi and 7.1 gpm. What does this mean? These numbers would tend to indicate that the KL2610 has larger displacement lift cylinders, thus should be able to do more "work" (the engineering definition of "work") per cycle..... Caveat - the above are numbers taken off of a shiny marketing brochures, and web pages - ALL highly suspect until confirmed with actual measurements and engineering analysis.
- I like the pin detail on the 2610 - IMO, it's a more expensive/robust design than used on the 4030, and I suspect it's the reason that Kioti has moved away from the 2610 design.

CK2510 vs CK2610
I went to the dealer yesterday, to check out a CK2510H, intending to buy it if it fit. I'm 5'-8, with size 9 nine boots, and I was wearing street shoes. I fit, but access on and off is not great, it's missing the "M" in the range selector (and feels like it), and linked throttle is not available from the OEM.. The treadle pedal location and operation is awkward in my opinion, but the size 9's work. My right knee started to ache a bit after 5 minutes of playing with it. Not sure who they designed that tractor for, but the 2610 is so much nicer!

CK2610 vs L2501
The L2501 is an economy model, and it shows - it is less sophisticated (and ergonomic) control wise, than my 20 year old New Holland..
Every other tractor in this size range is using full hydro-static steering - except the Lxx01's. Definitely not in this century!
- I don't like the loader control location - it's almost impossible to exit from the right side, especially with the PTO lever also being in the way. Sometimes one get's into spots where going right is the only option.
- The hump gets in the way - the steel deck will be deadly with snow. Some "mat" solution or anti-skid would be required.
- I suspect that the Kubota engine is likely "better", long term. I wouldn't use it enough to find out.
- linked pedal function is not available from Kubota.
- hydraulic remotes are much more expensive on the Kubota.
- Both the CK2610 and L2501 have crap 3-point hardware - My old TC25 has telescopic main links and sway braces, and a crank and gear drive whatchamacallit (leveling link?) I will be checking to see if that hardware will transfer to the CK2610.
- Kubota dealer is further away, and on the wrong side of a town that has a traffic bottleneck problem. That fact likely adds 1 over an hour to a trip to get parts.
- I suspect that the Kubota will retain it's value better. I don't intend to find out.
- The Kioti bucket's tilt function is a "four bar linkage" arrangement, not direct acting - a better (and more expensive) design.
- Kubota has regen/fast dump for the bucket (as does the TC25) - Kioti is behind the curve here.
- Fuel tank location - the TC25 has the tank in the same position as Kubota - it's a pain with fuel jugs, and difficult to not spill on the hood.

CK2610 vs Green.
- I wish I could talk myself into a 3033R! I'm not willing to pay almost double the money!
- The CK2610 is priced the same as the current spring sale price of the the 3025E up here.
- I like the 3025E for it's diff lock/brake control and the separate (real?) parking brake.
- 2 speed HST is lacking. Loader is lacking. Axle capacities are lacking.
- I like the JD loader quick attach design - no parts to seize up, less weight.