Plumbing a bolt on grapple

[wesmann]

Have a Yanmar 276 D and bucket with tooth bar. I want to add a bolt on grapple. Could someone steer me towards information on plumbing this set up?
Thanks

 

[winston1]

Would first need to know how your loader is plumbed. Your 276 has auxiliary ports, don't know whether yours have been used with your loader plumbing. See attached.

 

[woolyAcres]

Does your machine already have a set of rear remotes? I just ran long flexible hoses from the rear of my NH under the floor, and out the loader arms where a grapple could be attached. I think I spent about $100 on 2 long hoses and the needed fittings. The lines just stay on the tractor but when I'm not using the grapple I disconnect them from the rear remotes so they are free to use on other implements. A third function button on the joystick would be nice but didn't really seem worth the cost to me.

 

[wesmann]

Nope - no rear remotes. Is there a third function setup that provides an add on button? This is an old machine - 1985. Anyone know a hydraulic tutorial? I've replaced hoses but don't understand how hydraulics work. Thanks again.

 

[FleetMan]

Nope - no rear remotes. Is there a third function setup that provides an add on button? This is an old machine - 1985. Anyone know a hydraulic tutorial? I've replaced hoses but don't understand how hydraulics work. Thanks again.

If you have a basic understanding of electricity, just substitute hydraulic fluid, hoses and valves for electrons, wires and switches. Circuitry Logic is similar.

 

[winston1]

If ports A & B on your machine are not being used as shown in my earlier post then you can tap in on port A, go through a control valve, then back into port B. Just showing an example of a valve that might be used. 1 Spool 8 GPM Prince MB11B5C1 DA Valve | Directional Control Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

See the attachment for correct installation procedure.

 

[rScotty]

Well you are lucky to have a YM276, they are one very nice tractor. A real classic. No matter what kind of loader you have on your 276 there's no doubt you can add a control for a grapple.

There's a number of ways to do that, and they all start with us needing to know what loader you have and how it is hooked up now. For that, we'll need to see some photos, so first step is for you to learn how to post some photos of the tractor, loader, hoses, and particularly some of the loader control valve that works the lift and curl of the bucket.

What we are looking for firstly is to see what you have....whether it is a factory OEM Yanmar loader and loader control valve - or some other brand of loader and control valve. That will tell us whether we can tap into the existing loader control valve to get power for a grapple - or not.

The second thing we are looking to know is .... What is the source of the loader's hydraulic power now? It could be powered from the tractor's internal hydraulic pump as Winston's attachment shows (we need a better photo there, too). Or the loader could be powered by an accessory pump driven somewhere else on the tractor. Yanmar dealers powered their loaders both ways.

First step is some photos so we can figure out what you have.

rScotty

 

[kenmac]

several ways to do it. I added a thumb to my yanmar without using 3rd function
Used a 3rd function valve on my Kubota

 

[wesmann]

Finally got a chance to get pics of the hydraulic set up. Looks like 3 hoses from the hydraulic cylinder head. Two to the loader control valve (cv1 out and high pressure line? and cv2 return?) and one from PBY or aux Valve? Hard to make out in the service manual pics.

PBY goes to a block labeled modular control valve. Two lines from there - one to the loader control valve and another to the power steering cylinder. There's one line from the power steering cyl to a port in front of the shift knob (return?).

Finally it's a Yanmar loader model YFL 1075.

It's been a great machine. I've put a couple of hundred hours on it over the last ten years mostly plowing snow and getting firewood in. Haven't had a real problem yet. A lot of good advice from this forum.

Grateful for any info leading to my understanding of the set up and the installation of a bolt on grapple and possibly cylinders to angle a snow plow.

ThanksView attachment 585607View attachment 585608View attachment 585609View attachment 585607View attachment 585608View attachment 585609

 

[winston1]

Your hydraulics are plumbed using the auxiliary outlets shown in post #2. I am not a hydraulic guru but do feel it is plumbed correctly. Might be expensive but I am thinking you might be better off going with a new loader control valve. Attaching an example. I know you are not going to like the price. I haven't done any shopping or comparing.

The control valve used to go to your power steering and loader valve assures you don't lose power steering when using the loader.

 

[Jtullis13]

I agree with Winston, it looks like it is plumbed correctly, now that isn't saying you can't change how its done... There are other ways to plumb this set up, however you would lose function of one thing or another during the time you are using another, if that makes sense. I ran into this situation when I added PS to my 2210d with a FEL.

 

[wesmann]

Thank you winston1. Could you post the example link again ? Can't see it.

Thinking pressure is distributed to lift and curl and another function with same supply and return hoses? One more lever?

 

[rScotty]

I agree with Winston, it looks like it is plumbed correctly, now that isn't saying you can't change how its done... There are other ways to plumb this set up, however you would lose function of one thing or another during the time you are using another, if that makes sense. I ran into this situation when I added PS to my 2210d with a FEL.

I agree. There are several ways to divert some fluid to run a grapple cylinder. The simplest of all is if you have an unused PB (Power Beyond) port on your existing directional control valve setup. It looks like yours has it.... but it is already in use. You can theoretically daisy-chain directional control valves using the PB from one to send fluid to the next and so on....but you end up spending more money for control valves and hoses while and creating more resistance in the circuit.

I like the idea of replacing the entire directional control valve setup with one that has 3 or more levers because it is the most elegant solution. And by the time it gets installed It might be no more expensive than the rest, too. Remember that hoses cost real money. Cost on a 3 lever DCV is about the $350/400 mark at hydraulic surplus sites like Surplus Center.
If you go that way be sure to match the threads on your existing hoses, and get one with PB. You don't need much flow capacity. Your tractor is probably not flowing 10 GPM at full chat. So realize that the small pump volume of the tractor's onboard hydraulic pump is limited in how many functions it can power at once - if you are working one lever, the others will work too....but slowly.

However...think on this: The downside to swapping to the 3 lever system - or making any changes in your hydraulics flow path is that before changing anything about the flow profile you MUST be determine that if you have power steering that it has priority in flow. Usually that is via a discrete hydraulic priority valve. What that valve does is to makes sure that the steering gets it's required flow (often about 3 gpm) before sending any fluid to the rest of the system. Sometimes there is not a discrete hydraulic priority valve and instead the manufacturer has just balanced the various resistances to flow to accomplish the same thing.

Another possibility that used to be more popular on old farm equipment was to use a selectable diverter valve in one of the pressure lines. Selectable Diverter Valves are just what they sound like, they manually or electrically switch the high pressure flow from one system to another. I've even seen them installed after the directional control valve so that for instance the lever that used to curl the bucket would now work the grapple .... You would then switch back and forth. Prices range from $100 to $500 depending if they are manual or 12v. solenoid actuated. But as has been said, you only get to actuate with whichever system is selected to be getting the fluid at the moment. That's a big downside.

Another option that you might want to consider is a 12 volt electric over hydraulic motor with it's own reservoir. You can find those on Amazon. Picture below. You toggle an electric switch for forward/reverse, and the switch actuates a solenoid diverter. These complete kits are actually reasonably priced because so many of them are sold for little dump trailers and for snow plows on pickup trucks - basically anywhere you need one 2-way hydralic cylinder. They typically come with a two-way switch and their own hydraulic reservoir. The whole unit is about the size of a breadbox. If you have room for it - and a decent alternator & battery on the tractor - then it's a pretty good solution for about the same $$ and doesn't affect the tractor hydraulics.
rScotty

 

[winston1]

Thank you winston1. Could you post the example link again ? Can't see it.

Thinking pressure is distributed to lift and curl and another function with same supply and return hoses? One more lever?

Not sure what example link you can't see. Old age caused me not to attach the control valve example with the extra lever. 3 Spool 25 GPM Joystick Loader Valve w/Grapple | Directional Control Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

 

[shooterdon]

rScotty,
The 12V hydraulic motor option is very interesting. It might be not only suitable for a grapple but a top link hydraulic cylinder.

I am also considering using an electric linear actuator for a grapple to replace the cylinder....

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200520514_200520514

It will lift 1000 lbs and hold 3000Lbs. Seems much easier to mount than adding a valve and running hoses. Unlike the diverter valve option it will retain the curl function while the grapple is operating.

 

[rScotty]

rScotty,
The 12V hydraulic motor option is very interesting. It might be not only suitable for a grapple but a top link hydraulic cylinder.

I am also considering using an electric linear actuator for a grapple to replace the cylinder....

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200520514_200520514

It will lift 1000 lbs and hold 3000Lbs. Seems much easier to mount than adding a valve and running hoses. Unlike the diverter valve option it will retain the curl function while the grapple is operating.

There's no reason why you can't feed the 12V hydraulic motor into a diverter valve (solenoid or manual) and run several different circuits. Doing that retains the curl function as well.

There are also linear electric/hydraulic cylinders if you need it more compact. All forms of hydraulics are better than electric linear actuators in actual use. Definitely worth the extra effort to install.

The surplus shop is one place to buy huy hydraulics. You can also buy more than 3 spools This one has SAE 8 threads, PB option, but no float position. They have a huge selection.
3 Spool 14 GPM Prince WVS31BBB5C1 DA Valve | Directional Control Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

 

[shooterdon]

The concern I have with the 12V hydraulic pump option is the current draw....figure about 100-250 amps when it is running. That might be ok for running a dump trailer up and down a few times an hour but a grapple get more cycles and my JD855 only puts out about 40 amps IIRC.

 

[kenmac]

could add a true 3rd function which would allow you to operate other functions. At least it does on my Kubota. Of course the ps flow issue may affect this on these yanmars


W.R. Long, Inc. | Valve Kits

 

[rScotty]

The concern I have with the 12V hydraulic pump option is the current draw....figure about 100-250 amps when it is running. That might be ok for running a dump trailer up and down a few times an hour but a grapple get more cycles and my JD855 only puts out about 40 amps IIRC.

Your alternator should be big enough if the battery has sufficient reserve. The problem is that all those JD/Yanmars - and all the Yanmars, too - came with a minimal sized battery. Next time battery replacement comes around, you might want to see how big of an battery will fit. I expanded the battery box on mine to fit a std. automotive battery. The same one I use in our diesel PU truck. BTW, it makes sense to use a sealed battery or AGM type especially when the battery is right there in front of the radiator.
rScotty

 

[Jtullis13]

Having a 3rd function would be great, you could use it for a lot of other attachments too.