Siphon for hydraulic oil....

[Richard]

In Sept, I bought a Terrain King, hydraulically powered mower. This is nothing more than a 15' flexwing mower but, instead of being powered by shafts on the PTO, there is a closed loop pump hanging on the pto to power the blades.

At the hinge location for the wings (on BOTH sides of the hinge) is something like a 3x4 boxed section. You can't "see" this part as it's simply part of the construction of the mower assembly. None the less, each wing has two of these chambers and these chambers are most of the reservoir for holding the hydraulic oil. I think the factory calls these the cooling channels or something like that.

There is then a "box" on the front of the mower that would have (what you would otherwise think to be) the hydraulic reservoir sitting there.

Meaning.... if you want to change the fluid, you drain the 'front' reservoir of fluid....you think you are done but, you've only drained (guessing) five gallons out of the (guessing) 45 gallons that it holds since most of the volume is sitting in these cooling channels.

Hope that painted a picture that makes some sense.

Ok, just got done adding a schematic of mower. The squared sections near the hinges are the cooling chambers I'm speaking of.... it doesn't show the front reservoir.

Here's my question.... Evidently the hoses on these are REAL tight. Guy who welded something on it for me had to take one off. They had a six foot cheater and TWO people twisting on it to get it off.

I want to get as much oil OUT as I can so I can flush it.

If it uses 45 gallons, I'm simply NOT going to do a couple drain/refils..... so how do I siphon out.

What I'm trying to find is NOT a kerosene heater type siphon hose with a squeeze ball.....I have one of those.

What can I use that might pull hydraulic fluid out faster and still be controlled? (so when my 5-gallon bucket fills, I can control flow as I move to next pail)

Also.... how do I get the oil out of the cooling chambers if the hoses are that hard to remove?

I'm wondering if by lifting the wings, some of the fluid (in the wing half) will gravity feed to the chamber on the chassis.....and then maybe push its way to the reservoir on the front of the mower. I could use my backhoe to lift the front/back to try to then let that oil move forward.

From what I understand, they didn't make any drain plugs in the cooling chambers so I'm a bit perplexed on how to do a "good" drain job and not mix half new fluid with half old fluid.

Thoughts??

 

[Richard]

Added:

The schematic shows the hoses that go to the lift cylinders NOT to the cooling chambers.

If you look at the chambers, you will see drawings that represent the couplings there but, no hoses.

 

[RNeumann]

If you insist I’d pump the fluid new through it.

 

[Richard]

Count me as being a dummy.....can you explain what your process might be?

I don't want to use 300 gallons to replace 45 (I don't want the new oil to mix with the old and take extra fluid to finally flush old out)

I want to drain 90% of the old then simply replace it. (I know I'll never get it "all" so I just want most out)

 

[Dirthog]

The only way to get it all out is to tear down the whole system. You could get a bit more out by removing the hoses off the cylinders and moving them manually you could also try and remove all the lines and blow air through the system but that will still leave quite a bit in it. We have to do this all the time when we have a excavator or something that comes in with a cylinder or motor blown up.

 

[Richard]

Gotcha. I had actually thought about that..... but thought for the work involved, if I can get the lion share out, I (hope) to be good.

Kind of like a general oil change in your car/truck.... dump old, replace. The old oil in the passageways, clinging to the interior parts will simply blend in with the new stuff. Generally that's 'good enough'.

I hope to get there with this. Might not worry about it until spring, I don't like doing t his stuff when it's cold.....and since I won't be cutting anything until spring, I might have time.

 

[oldnslo]

Richard,
Which hoses connect to the cooling chambers? Are there hoses between the main reservoir and cooling chambers?

 

[def38]

Buy a small 12VDC pump ( https://www.amazon.com/Amarine-made...8&qid=1545417772&sr=1-26&keywords=12+vdc+pump ) and drain old into a drum (I made a AG sprayer out of my pump which works well after you have used it to drain your mower)

Is there a filter anywhere in the system?

Also, is there contamination or some other compelling reason to change 45 gallons of hydraulic oil that only needs to lubricate bearings and gears. Sure, the old oil may have sheared down in viscosity but, who cares.

 

[Ken]

Buy a small 12VDC pump ( https://www.amazon.com/Amarine-made...8&qid=1545417772&sr=1-26&keywords=12+vdc+pump ) and drain old into a drum (I made a AG sprayer out of my pump which works well after you have used it to drain your mower)

Is there a filter anywhere in the system?

Also, is there contamination or some other compelling reason to change 45 gallons of hydraulic oil that only needs to lubricate bearings and gears. Sure, the old oil may have sheared down in viscosity but, who cares.

To keep the old fluid from mixing with new. elevate the hose to level where can add a gallon of red Diesel to then fill with the new. when the fluid you are dumping turns red shut off the flow and reconnect to pump.
This method is used in pipe lines where gas diesel lub. oil or what ever the pipe line company's need to transport.
ken

 

[RNeumann]

Count me as being a dummy.....can you explain what your process might be?

I don't want to use 300 gallons to replace 45 (I don't want the new oil to mix with the old and take extra fluid to finally flush old out)

I want to drain 90% of the old then simply replace it. (I know I'll never get it "all" so I just want most out)

I’d just pump each of the 6-8 cooling reservoirs out.

 

[Richard]

Richard,
Which hoses connect to the cooling chambers? Are there hoses between the main reservoir and cooling chambers?

Tried to find schematic of them. Don't know if this is the best one or not....but here it is.

Looks to me like there are two circuits (??) One goes to center pump (for blades), then exits at 9:00 and goes to cooling tank. Next to that is another one that goes back, cuts left to go to left pump then goes to right pump in a serial connection.

The book I'm looking at I THINK has several mowers it deals with or, maybe same mower at different times.

I THOUGHT the pressure line went from one to the next to the third motor in a series but, this schematic shows it a bit different.

None the less, after the motor, (for the blades) it then goes to the tanks.

There are then some shorter hoses to connect the tanks on one side of the wing to another.

Not being an engineer, I DO think it's somewhat clever how they built the tanks into the unit itself.

 

[Richard]

Buy a small 12VDC pump ( https://www.amazon.com/Amarine-made...8&qid=1545417772&sr=1-26&keywords=12+vdc+pump ) and drain old into a drum (I made a AG sprayer out of my pump which works well after you have used it to drain your mower)

Is there a filter anywhere in the system?

Also, is there contamination or some other compelling reason to change 45 gallons of hydraulic oil that only needs to lubricate bearings and gears. Sure, the old oil may have sheared down in viscosity but, who cares.

There are two maybe 10" tall filters hanging on the backside of the "tank" in the front of the unit.

There is another "filter" on the TOP of this same tank but I think it's just a breather cap. You take it off and there is another assembly below it that is probably vented to tank and, you need a wrench to remove that part (to then fill tank I presume)

The sight window is on the front of this tank.

Here's picture of actual mower (not my tractor though). You can see the filters on top and behind the tank on the front of the unit.

 

[Richard]

Also, is there contamination or some other compelling reason to change 45 gallons of hydraulic oil that only needs to lubricate bearings and gears. Sure, the old oil may have sheared down in viscosity but, who cares.

This isn't oil for the gears, it's the hydraulic oil that powers the pumps on the blades.

I had a hose crack other day and it looks a bit milky. Didn't get a great look at it..... might have looked lots of milky.

In the end it's one of those "I have no idea how much he maintained it so I want to start at a known (good) point"

 

[def38]

As for gears, I was referring to the gears in the pump (or possibly the vanes if a rotary vane pump). I am mechanically familiar with hydraulic pumps and motors. In the end, lubrication, cooling and corrosion protection are the main duties for the hydraulic oil.

Why not remove one of the filters and see what's inside?

Depending on the value of the mower and your desire to restore it and maintain it for reliable service, you may want to do a couple of UOAs after the new oil has been in service for awhile.

 

[Richard]

Drove into town today to get a couple hose clamps to hold the suction/supply hose to the reservoir and pump. Mower has NAPA filters on it.

Don't you know I got all the way into town 15 miles and.... forgot to write down the numbers!!!

put mower on a slope and siphoned more of the old oil out, certainly not all. Got some new fluid (20 gallons) at NAPA and put about 15 in. Took out for a test drive and it absolutely ripped the snot out of everything I drove over.

I'm really looking forward to spring. I totally enjoy cutting the fields, i find it very relaxing. Now I can do it with 15' behind me instead of the five footer that my wife's uncle used for decades. About 8 years ago I finally stopped cutting the place as it simply took too much of my time/life to cut land that didn't belong to us

(her father later bought an IH 886 (866?) and 10' Rhino mower.... so I went back to cutting the place to help out but his son sold it when he passed away so we need to get something again to cut the farm, enter this mower behind an IH 1066)

I won't be restoring it. I might paint it just to help protect it. Change a few hoses.... basic maintenance to keep it functional (and that's all)

 

[LouNY]

Looking at your unit, if you fold the wings up can you blow through the lines to get the old oil out?

 

[def38]

I won't be restoring it. I might paint it just to help protect it. Change a few hoses.... basic maintenance to keep it functional (and that's all)

Sounds like you have already bonded with the thing...

After you're done with the oil change, why not pressure wash it, mask off the no paint areas and give it a coat of your favorite color.

I'm going to Jet Hot the exhaust on my M-F. Haven't decided on the color yet...

 

[muddstopper]

To get the oil out, why not remove the return hose from the tank and place in a drum. Then crank the engine and let it pump the oil out. Cut pump off when it starts sucking air. Then remove suction hose from the tank and stick it down in a new can of oil and let it push thru the hoses until it runs out of the return. Button everything back up and refill tank with oil.