Feeling ripped off.....fill dirt

Big Barn · Oct 26, 2018

To the OP. NOBODY likes getting ripped off and I hope you didn’t.

BUT as others have mentioned, looking at a pile of loose material to determine volume is always deceiving, plus human nature always makes us expect more.

CMV · Oct 26, 2018

I'm not so much looking at the pile but going off the calculation of what the pile filled. Should have taken X cu yds leaving a remainder, but no remainder was left. Shape filled should not be able to hold amount of material ordered.

My cross section drawing is an approximation. I looked at it last night and the base is wider than 6'. Probably 7.5' at the very bottom, but top is thinner at about only 1' right now. Yes, slope is incredibly steep. That's intent - get as close to a vertical wall of dirt as I can possibly create. As I'm filling, I stop and take the bucket and press flat spots in the slope. That makes small ledges and encourages next buckets to go "up" and "out" vs just rolling down to bottom widening base.

But should change my title to "feeling stupid".......since I need another load...regardless if what was delivered was 20 yds, 26 yds, or 1,000 yds, will still need more to finish it once it settles some and I can get it thicker, higher. So I called company B, figuring I'd go thru the ordeal of getting them to match company A price. Turns out they must have already lowered their price considerably. Their quad axle load is 18 yds (and from my old picture a few pages back you can see it looks remarkably similar to same amount as 26 yds from company A) & is $1.20/yd more delivered. So for $30 I'd probably be topping off old berms to get rid of excess dirt instead of griping I didn't get enough

I guess I just forgot over time....stone from company A - they're cheaper (offer crushed concrete, magnet screened, much cheaper than ABC gravel) and deliver with weight tickets, mulch & dirt from company B since they are generous with their loading by volume.

Big Barn · Oct 26, 2018

CMV said:
I'm not so much looking at the pile but going off the calculation of what the pile filled. Should have taken X cu yds leaving a remainder, but no remainder was left. Shape filled should not be able to hold amount of material ordered.

My cross section drawing is an approximation. I looked at it last night and the base is wider than 6'. Probably 7.5' at the very bottom, but top is thinner at about only 1' right now. Yes, slope is incredibly steep. That's intent - get as close to a vertical wall of dirt as I can possibly create. As I'm filling, I stop and take the bucket and press flat spots in the slope. That makes small ledges and encourages next buckets to go "up" and "out" vs just rolling down to bottom widening base.

But should change my title to "feeling stupid".......since I need another load...regardless if what was delivered was 20 yds, 26 yds, or 1,000 yds, will still need more to finish it once it settles some and I can get it thicker, higher. So I called company B, figuring I'd go thru the ordeal of getting them to match company A price. Turns out they must have already lowered their price considerably. Their quad axle load is 18 yds (and from my old picture a few pages back you can see it looks remarkably similar to same amount as 26 yds from company A) & is $1.20/yd more delivered. So for $30 I'd probably be topping off old berms to get rid of excess dirt instead of griping I didn't get enough

I guess I just forgot over time....stone from company A - they're cheaper (offer crushed concrete, magnet screened, much cheaper than ABC gravel) and deliver with weight tickets, mulch & dirt from company B since they are generous with their loading by volume.

Sounds good going with company B who are generous with loading with volume.

Just as long as you realize a company supplying an accurate volume IS NOT necessarily ripping you off.

gstrom99 · Oct 26, 2018

I've got landscaping to do, after a new septic system and foundation drain system were installed. I've been trying most of the summer to get topsoil delivered, but it's been so wet in northern Iowa, that they can't get it done, and my place is fairly remote (an hour drive for the truck, each way ( a lot of "Oh, that's too far for us..."), that I've had trouble getting it done. I finally got a "full load" of pulverized topsoil ordered, which should be about 11 yards. $630 with delivery. Gave them my cc and will have to wait 'til next week to see what the pile looks like. Hopefully, I won't feel ripped off...

Big Barn · Oct 26, 2018

gstrom99 said:
I've got landscaping to do, after a new septic system and foundation drain system were installed. I've been trying most of the summer to get topsoil delivered, but it's been so wet in northern Iowa, that they can't get it done, and my place is fairly remote (an hour drive for the truck, each way ( a lot of "Oh, that's too far for us..."), that I've had trouble getting it done. I finally got a "full load" of pulverized topsoil ordered, which should be about 11 yards. $630 with delivery. Gave them my cc and will have to wait 'til next week to see what the pile looks like. Hopefully, I won't feel ripped off...

I hope you don’t either.

I’ve delivered a lot of loads of topsoil in my time and never intentionally or knowingly short changed anyone. The one thing I can tell you is I’ve NEVER had a customer remark “ WOW. That’s looks like way more than
I ordered”.

CincyFlyer · Oct 26, 2018

My twenty yards of topsoil took up fourteen yards in the garden.

dragoneggs · Oct 26, 2018

LD1 said:
Its really hard to measure an exact volume of a "pile"

Nah... it is simply a matter of using integral calculus.

4570Man · Oct 26, 2018

dragoneggs said:
Nah... it is simply a matter of using integral calculus.

Maybe if it was an even shape. Unless you have a 3D scanner I’m not sure what size pile you’re going to be calculating the volume on. If the pile was even shape you could push it into a cone and use relatively simple geometry.

LD48750 · Oct 26, 2018

All I know is the yard of dirt I moved with a shovel was MUCH bigger than the same yard moved with the tractor.

dragoneggs · Oct 26, 2018

4570Man said:
Maybe if it was an even shape. Unless you have a 3D scanner I’m not sure what size pile you’re going to be calculating the volume on. If the pile was even shape you could push it into a cone and use relatively simple geometry.

Yeah it was in jest... a 3D scanner would help!

Geotech · Oct 26, 2018

That seems like a lot of money for some common fill. But all the money is in the transport, not the material. Most of these truckers are working on big construction projects and delivering some stuff to a homeowner/individual is not a priority for them - at least where I live. Same thing with concrete. Count on concrete being as late as four hours if you aren't buying at least forty yards. You may have been shorted, but it's probably not to an extent that one of their "real" customer would even notice. It would just be one of many somewhat variable truckloads to the job site.

gstrom99 · Oct 27, 2018

Pulverized topsoil in Chicago is $40/yard, Its $37/yard in Waterloo. That's the "you pick it up" price. When I figure the $100/hour trucking, or the all day back and forth with a $75/day rented dump trailer, I think I'm okay with that $.

fried1765 · Oct 27, 2018

Industrial Toys said:
No doubt about it. It's expensive to have equipment on the public roads. At least here. And it's only going to get worse as more and more guys get caught operating unlawfully and either go legit or leave it to the above board guys and then the customer will have to pay the real operating costs plus profit.

Overall operating expenses are definitely more expensive in Canada than in most parts of the USA.
California might be the exception.
I had many loads of varying materials hauled to me at my seasonal residence in Nova Scotia.
Operators truck was down for several days, with the front wheels removed, while he waited for the provincial inspector to come by to inspect it.

ddbackhoe · Oct 27, 2018

CMV said:
I'm not so much looking at the pile but going off the calculation of what the pile filled. Should have taken X cu yds leaving a remainder, but no remainder was left. Shape filled should not be able to hold amount of material ordered.

My cross section drawing is an approximation. I looked at it last night and the base is wider than 6'. Probably 7.5' at the very bottom, but top is thinner at about only 1' right now. Yes, slope is incredibly steep. That's intent - get as close to a vertical wall of dirt as I can possibly create. As I'm filling, I stop and take the bucket and press flat spots in the slope. That makes small ledges and encourages next buckets to go "up" and "out" vs just rolling down to bottom widening base.

But should change my title to "feeling stupid".......since I need another load...regardless if what was delivered was 20 yds, 26 yds, or 1,000 yds, will still need more to finish it once it settles some and I can get it thicker, higher. So I called company B, figuring I'd go thru the ordeal of getting them to match company A price. Turns out they must have already lowered their price considerably. Their quad axle load is 18 yds (and from my old picture a few pages back you can see it looks remarkably similar to same amount as 26 yds from company A) & is $1.20/yd more delivered. So for $30 I'd probably be topping off old berms to get rid of excess dirt instead of griping I didn't get enough

I guess I just forgot over time....stone from company A - they're cheaper (offer crushed concrete, magnet screened, much cheaper than ABC gravel) and deliver with weight tickets, mulch & dirt from company B since they are generous with their loading by volume.

But how are you gonna know company B's 18 yards is right?

ovrszd · Oct 27, 2018

I can't believe a dirt discussion has lasted 75 posts.

pmsmechanic · Oct 27, 2018

ovrszd said:
I can't believe a dirt discussion has lasted 75 posts.

This isn't about dirt. It's about getting ripped off. The discussion will go on for days yet as many more need to tell us their story!

Deere Dude · Oct 27, 2018

I needed fill for along my driveway when I had a retaining wall added. The wall was 6' high from ground to top and from the base of the wall the driveway went from that point up on a 45 deg angle. So for figuring fill just know the triangle area and then multiply by length, which was about 150 feet to get the volume. I had the wall contractor standing by with a bobcat to push fill into the hole.

I wanted big dump trucks to back up and keep on going until the hole was filled and we tell them to stop. Instead the gravel company decided to us a 7 yard single axle dump truck and the bobcat was sitting there idling as the dump truck made the 20 minute round trip to refill. Of course I was ugly about that. But I sucked it up.

I got the bill a couple days later and it seemed way way higher than I imagined. I called the dirt guy and told him it should have only been x00 yards by doing the math and that the dump truck driver must have charged me for big truck fulls when he only brought out mini truck fulls. He was furious and said he will get the loading slips but when he called back he said he could only find half of them so I told him to keep on looking.

He called a few days later and in a huff he told me to just send him money for what I think I got. I did, plus a little extra just in case my math was wrong. After listening to everyone on here I think I might have shorted him and don't feel good about that.

4570Man · Oct 27, 2018

Did they specify which size or the number of trucks they were using ahead if time? If not then that’s your problem. As for shorting the guy you should probably make it right. Then on the other side of things if he tried to rip you off first it’s good enough for him.

Industrial Toys · Oct 27, 2018

The way I kind of see it. The operators want and deserve a fare wage or remuneration for their equipment and services. But many cheat, to try and get that. It's like "everyone" is advertising and quoting false prices! If you told the truth up front, you would be deemed too expensive.

Kind of like contractors that bid low and then throw extras on the final bill.