Feeling ripped off.....fill dirt

[CMV]

Had 2 tandem loads delivered yesterday of fill dirt. Just plain old Carolina red clay. 13 cu yds is one tandem load (advertised, sold by volume, not weight like stone).

Was extending a shooting berm/backstop. Addition is 16' wide, 6' deep, 7.5" high. So picture piling that against an L-shaped wall getting to 7+ft high at top. The way it flows/spreads, I get 6' at the bottom (with some bigger clods and stuff rolling off the mound extending beyond 6' a little), but only about 2.5' at the top. The L-shaped wall is pretty much to contain the pile so it will go up vs just continually spread out as it goes higher.

If I calculate that volume as a full rectangle shape I get 26.7 cu yds. But since not a box and the actual shape it takes is more of a right triangle, should take less dirt. So I was thinking 2x 13yd loads would be perfect - fill it and leave a small pile left to go back after it settles & compacts and top it back off. But it took all of both loads just about so no way they both = 26 yds. I had probably 3 scoops left when I was done - ~1.5 yds - and that was enough to level out the little ruts I made running the tractor over the same small area over & over piling up the dirt.

Is it pretty common to sell fill dirt, mulch, etc that way? i.e. full truck holds "about X yds" but there is a pretty large variance?

Over the years have had lots of fill dirt & gravel delivered. The piles look HUGE - esp when a quad axle delivers - and it never goes that far once you start using it - I get that part. My bucket holds 1/2 yard - not sure if that is struck or heaped, but the scoops I took weren't heaped a lot (not pushing in, curling, getting as much material as possible heaped in bucket) since I was taking to full height and keeping a overly heaped bucket level all the way up just drops a lot, so full buckets, but not heaped real high. Anyway, that should have been 50+ scoops. I didn't count, but as slow as I was going, no way I moved 50+ scoops.

I didn't see the 2nd load - he just came and dumped it while I was working on something else not paying close attention, but did get a pic of him dumping the first load. I think company name is obscured well enough to post.... Am I wrong in thinking the bed of that truck should have been "fuller"?

 

[Fuddy1952]

Price?
I had five tandem loads of fill dirt delivered a few weeks ago. Each load when dumped didn't look like much, and we kept thinking 2-3 loads would do it.

 

[mikester]

Generally truck loads go by aggregate load weight and what's allowed on the road based on number of axels, not how much can they squeeze into the box.

When bulk ordering low density materials like mulch they tend to sell by the yard.

Check your load tickets to see how much they delivered per truck and cost per ton. That's a more reliable method and you pay for what you get vs eyeballing it and being hopeful.

 

[thekkfan]

Did you shop around? Have you used this source before?

Guess only way to know for sure is if they hauled the fill from another source and you saw the weight sheet given upon exit.

Supposedly a yd of fill is ~2,000lbs. That would be the reason for them saying they can deliver 13yds. I believe on average (from sandrock I got delivered) that they average between 16-17.5 tons load, no matter what they're hauling.

I can say that from your picture my loads of sandrock looked very similar in size, and the sandrock should be between 2,500-2,700 per yd. :confused3:

I get the pickup sheet/load ticket before the check is written.

 

[zzvyb6]

Around here, dirt is delivered by weight even though its advertised by volume. That's because of truck/road weight restrictions. Now, for you, the questions are whether there are road weight restrictions in your state (and the company obeys them), the dirt supply ran out, or the load settled on the way to your place. I just had 3 10 yard loads of top soil delivered and the truck was about 7/8 full each time. If the State Police stop you and weigh the truck's axles and you flunk, it could cost you $500 - $1000 fine. My concrete guy told be this. Additional fine(s) if the load is not covered. BTW: he got a $250 fine for one loose chain (out of six) on a backhoe tie-down.

 

[MossRoad]

Go measure out a 3' x 3' square in your yard. Then take a shovel and carefully dig a perfect cube down exactly 3'. Now take that shovel and put that dirt back in the hole. It won't fit unless you compact it several times as you fill it.

When you order a truckload of dirt, let's say the box on the truck is 10 yards, and they fill it up, you'll get 10 yards of dirt with air in it. When you start compacting it it won't be 10 yards of dirt.

Also, as someone mentioned, it's usually sold by the ton, even though they tell you it's X yards of dirt. I found this out for the first time about 1990 when I ordered 20 yards of slag for my road. Yes, they put it in a 20 yard dumptruck. But no, it wasn't 20 yards. It was X tons and I was charged by the ton. They can estimate how much a yard of material weighs, but until you get the truck on the scale, you don't really know for sure just how much is in there.

 

[TractorNH]

When you order a truckload of dirt, let's say the box on the truck is 10 yards, and they fill it up, you'll get 10 yards of dirt with air in it. When you start compacting it it won't be 10 yards of dirt.

And just driving the load down the road causes it to compact itself in the truck somewhat.

I always feel cheated when buying mulch even when I watch them load it since they always "fluff" the pile before they start scooping the load.

 

[EddieWalker]

Go measure out a 3' x 3' square in your yard. Then take a shovel and carefully dig a perfect cube down exactly 3'. Now take that shovel and put that dirt back in the hole. It won't fit unless you compact it several times as you fill it.

When you order a truckload of dirt, let's say the box on the truck is 10 yards, and they fill it up, you'll get 10 yards of dirt with air in it. When you start compacting it it won't be 10 yards of dirt.

Also, as someone mentioned, it's usually sold by the ton, even though they tell you it's X yards of dirt. I found this out for the first time about 1990 when I ordered 20 yards of slag for my road. Yes, they put it in a 20 yard dumptruck. But no, it wasn't 20 yards. It was X tons and I was charged by the ton. They can estimate how much a yard of material weighs, but until you get the truck on the scale, you don't really know for sure just how much is in there.

I was thinking something similar, but was using the word fluff when describing the dirt that you buy. Here, it's loaded with a one yard loader, so the guy just scoops up how many yards you paid for, and dumps it in to the truck, counting each load until he gets to what you bought. It's coming from a pile that's already been dug up and hauled to the yard, so it's considered loose fill.

If you are selling dirt, it's about a buck a yard. Neighbor sold 5,000 yards for $4,000 when the new high school was being built. They had an excavator on his place to load it with a one yard bucket and a dozen dump trucks to haul it away. They ran non stop until it was all gone. This was a pile that he had created when he had his pond dug, so he was pretty sure how much was there. They real money was in the hauling it. Each dump truck held about ten yards and it was about an hour round trip for them. At $100 an hour, that's another ten bucks a yard to the price. This doesn't count the cost of the excavator to be there. I figured it was about $14 a yard by the time it got to where it was going and nobody was making a profit.

 

[4570Man]

The amount on the sides of that truck are pretty typical. There’s not very much in the tailgate. I doubt they weighed the truck and adjusted the load. Maybe they loaded a little conservatively. In either case I don’t think it was gross negligence on their part.

 

[Egon]

You got just a little less than ten yards on the truck in the picture.

 

[CMV]

This is sold by cu yd - at least advertised that way. $200/load delivered for 13 cu yds. $95 for the dirt, $105 for the delivery. And they're the less expensive option locally

Kind of tempted to try the guys advertising on clist that are about $125 delivered for a tandem load, but since using as a berm don't want big rocks, chunks of concrete, etc. Plus I really like limiting the # of "strangers" I bring on to my remote property. Not a far leap for someone making a delivery to look around and see tractor, generator & tools out, etc and assume that stuff lives out there (which it does). No neighbors, so you could spend all night cutting locks and loading up "stuff".

I have used this company several times and buying gravel or crushed concrete from them, get a weight ticket with my receipt. For dirt, just a receipt & no weight ticket. I like these guys' dirt because it is screened and generally nothing ever bigger than a piece of lemon sized rock. However, when I buy from the competing company, it costs more, isn't screened (not full of crap though), but always have more material and the piles when dumped are visually larger - but hard to tell by looking esp since the trucks are different size. But say 10 yds from A compared to a pile of 15 yds from B, B's pile looks like a lot more than 150% of A's....if that makes sense. What I should have done is what I did last time and asked company B to match company A's delivered price per yard. They've done it before, but kind of a hassle getting them to agree.

Not the end of the world, just disappointed that I *thought* 2 tandem loads would be 'perfect' amount leaving some left over. For my others built this way, I pile it, compact/shape it best I can with bucket (and a construction backhoe does that 10x better than a tractor), then just wait for it to settle and some grass to grow, then I can add more to get it topped back off and get the top thicker since the base isn't as loose. Will just have to get another load when time comes to do that, but look at it like I'm spending an additional $200 for material I already paid for.

Will see what happens.....I built this extension a LOT lighter than the others so no idea if it will even stand after stuff starts to settle. Might be doing the whole thing over in the spring. Tried a different way to save on the insane lumber cost of 4x4 construction I did the others.

On a positive note, I really appreciated how smoothly my loader operates. Raise & uncurl together a little tricky at times getting that joystick sweet spot, but nice to not have a lot of 'jerkyness' taking full loads of loose material to full height. NX HST very pleasant overall for lots of loader work like that. Moving the 2 loads - however many cu yds that ended up actually being - went a lot quicker than I thought it would. I spilled very little overall, and dumped very little back on the hood at full height.

 

[CMV]

You got just a little less than ten yards on the truck in the picture.

That's kind of what I'm thinking.....around 20 yds vs 26 yds is what it 'seems like' I had to work with. The grayed out portion of my cross section sketch shows the material I should have had left over. Mostly anyway, +/- a yard.

 

[Fuddy1952]

That looks like what I got recently, delivered about 5 miles away, $200/tandem load, not screened red clay. S. Central Va. 5 loads, $1K. It always takes way more dirt than you think it will. Then with rains I probably lost $300 worth!

 

[CMV]

Got me thinking and went back thru old pictures on my phone. This is 2 13 yd piles from company A followed by an 18 yd load from company B. What should be 26 yds compared to what should be 18 yds...look about the same. So either company A is delivering a lot less than advertised or company B is very generous making company A look bad. Not sure which, but am thinking company A has just been ripping me off....

 

[Big Barn]

Looking at the first photo in your original post,if they are advertising as 13 cubic yards you are NOT getting ripped off.

 

[Big Barn]

You got just a little less than ten yards on the truck in the picture.

I respectfully disagree.

 

[ddbackhoe]

Looking at the first photo in your original post,if they are advertising as 13 cubic yards you are NOT getting ripped off.

I tend to agree, dirt has a variable weight called moisture. So if its reallly dry, you can load more. If its really wet, you load less. And if you are not scaling the trucks, you average it out and go by number of scoops or a visual.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I always felt ripped off too. It was a stingy neighbor that got me on to the practice of climbing up and seeing what the box had in it before it was dumped. That also lets them know, they aren't dealing with just another sucker. Or fleecing another city-slicker! lol

There was always an excuse for a pidly load. Maybe it helps their profit, maybe they get a kickback or maybe they just count on you getting more loads and them getting more money.

Reminds me of the butcher, years ago when I asked why he left so much fat on the outside of a T-Bone. He just smiled, and said, profit. I guess, every business has their angle.

Fortunately, I have some connections now and request (and get) good loads!

 

[TractorGuy]

I have a guy local that mixes sand and clay for a better quality fill. It IS mixed before loading, not half and half. He sells it delivered for $10 yd. $180 per truck load. The top of his 18 yd truck will be heaped so you don't have to climb anything to see what you are getting. I'm sure he has a distance limit but he is close enough to me that I pay no extra delivery.

 

[Fuddy1952]

A few thoughts...

You could watch them load truck before delivering to you.

You could simply call them, say that you ordered and paid for 26 cu. yds. dirt and thought you didn't receive that much. See what they say.

I was in the service business for many years. Customers had lots of questions. I said everything boils down to one thing...TRUST.
Anyone I use, contractors, plumbers, HVAC, carpenters, dirt/stone delivery, the list goes on...I trust. If you don't, then go elsewhere.