any toro groundsmaster fans on here?

[rickpilgrim]

Yep, rarely noticed it kicking in. I removed the bent driveshaft on the 328D to straighten it and it wouldn't go places with 2WD, that it went in 4WD.

That is mounted on a Groundsmaster 72, the predecessor of the 300 series, so don't think it is 60" deck.

Those are slots on the front, to allow raising for tall stuff:

View attachment 573509

What you have is an early production 72 deck used from 1973-1975 or so on the GM 72.
Those were the only produced with a mostly round gearbox, an adjustable baffle, a unique castle nut blade attachment and 1 pc molded rear caster wheels on straight sided caster forks and the center blade is driven directly by the gearbox as originally produced.
You can update this deck to the later caster wheel style but finding gearbox parts and blades through Toro was near impossible 4 yrs ago when we scrapped ours due to those problems.

 

[Asymair95]

That’s too bad, cause this guy has a brand new deck shell for me for almost nothing.

 

[Asymair95]

Has anyone upgraded their old worn out seats with a suspension seat? I have a bad back and will need all the help I can get with my rough ground. Let’s see some pics of your seat upgrades.

 

[MultiMow]

Went ahead and ordered a set of regular lift blades to replace the gator blades on my mower. Hope to get them this week. I will report if they do indeed pull easier than the gator blades. Grass is settling into fall mode and tough as nails to cut clean now.

If you don't see an appreciable difference in PTO load with the standard high lift blades... you have bigger problems (spindles, PTO bushings/alignment, U-joint wear, etc.).

It's worth noting... if you have the Guardian Recycler mulching deck (pardon me for not scrolling back to verify), you will always have problems when cutting more than 2 or 3 inches of growth. They simply can't process the clippings into small enough pieces to fall out of the vacuum, through the blade path, and back to the ground. Mulching decks process clippings 3 to 8 times as much as side or rear discharge. Furthermore, unlike other decks which will force evacuate clumps... mulching decks simply load up in the top of the blade chambers, increasing turbulence and load on the blades.

 

[MultiMow]

Perspective 325d owner here. I遏･ looking at one with a leaf blower attached, deluxe seat, and rear weights. The issue is the 72 sd deck is rotted to death. Spindles and assorted hardware looks to be in good shape. There are actually two decks that come with the sale, but both are blown out.

However, I have found two newer toro deck shells on Craigslist locally. There are no model numbers on them, so I am relying on pictures to see if they are compatible with the perspective 325 decks I may be purchasing. Can anyone help me ID these decks please? Are they even for a groundsmaster? The newer one has some kind of bolt on lip for the front that is missing. My plan is to swap all hardware over from the bad decks to the good ones. Thank you for any help you can provide.

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The decks that come with the groundsmaster purchase appear to be a newer style with a gauge wheel in the middle mounted on the front lip. I didn稚 take a picture of them but found one online that looks the same. They are also sd decks.

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From just looking at the bolt patterns, it appears they may work, but I致e never owned one of these before and don稚 want to get stuck with a bunch of steel I can稚 use.

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This 325 I知 looking at is 4wd. Can anyone tell me if it has the optional full time 4wd coupling or if this is just a standard overrunning clutch arrangement? Thank you.

Doesn't look at all like my bidirectional clutch. Not to say that it's definitely the static coupler or one-way... but it's definitely not the bi-directional.

As for the decks... they do appear to be compatible decks. All 300 series Groundsmaster decks (including the Groundsmaster 72) are compatible... however, spindles and casters are sometimes not interchangeable. Groundsmaster 72, 327, and most models prior to the 325-D have a different "fine spline" shaft, and will require one of the following:

Option A: replace the rear portion of the driveshaft with the older unit by removing the roll pin from the rear portion (female) of the driveshaft that holds it to the PTO output shaft, and switch them out (the PTO output splines are the same).

Option B: using a later model "broad spline" shaft, remove the split yolk from the deck end U-joint, and replace with the older style split yolk.

Please note, just because the old deck might have the "fine splined" drive shaft, doesn't mean it will have the smaller input shaft in the gear box. Some of the later decks had the same input shaft as the later model gearboxes... so you can simply keep your late model "broad spline" driveshaft assembly, including and split yolk.

I've had my hands on five different deck driveshafts... and three of them were different. My Guardian Recycler shaft had a smaller female section than the late model side discharge. The early model side discharge shaft had two different bearing sizes on the U-joints (possible home brew repair? don't know... welds looked stock) and a smaller orifice to match the smaller input shaft on the gear box. Both of my flail decks had identical male shafts (as they should)... the first didn't come with the female section, but I assume was the same.

 

[MultiMow]

Time to replace the tires on my 325D Groundsmaster. The tires on it had been filled with foam and have developed a flat spot... bumpety, bumpety, bump. I use my machine to clear snow from my asphalt driveway, and probably not ever much else, though I really enjoy seeing what Xfaxman has done with his! I use rubber tire chains for traction and to keep from tearing up my asphalt. (Rubber Tire (Snow) Chains - Traction without damage.) A couple of questions:

1) which tires would you recommend I get? Currently have turf tires.
2) anyone have them filled? Foam? Beet juice? I've got an Ag Tire Dealer within 50 miles and thinking about having them do the work.
3) ? Please help me understand everything I don't know here

Thanks!

I'm just now catching up... so I might be late in answering, as I work my way up through the posts.

I have ran three sizes and two different tread patterns.

1st option: standard size 23x8.50x12 Carlisle turf tread (can't remember specific design)... PROS: decent traction, less scuffing in turns, noticeably smaller tread width in aftercut appearance CONS: most defined tread path in aftercut appearance, least uphill traction, least flotation in wet areas OVERALL: best option for operating in flat areas... if using a turf tread tire, this one will likely have the best traction when using the snowblower/snowplow.

2nd option: Toro's optional "up size" (standard on later models, I believe) 23×10.50x12 Carlisle turf tread PROS: better flotation in wet areas, lower ground pressure, less defined tread area in the aftercut appearance (albeit wider), noticeably different ride (more bumps, but less exaggerated), better uphill traction, noticeably more stable, better sidehill grip CONS: more prone to scuff in tight turns, or when turning uphill OVERALL: my experience was better with the wider tires... however, the ride was considerably different. The wider tires picked up more bumps, and they seemed sharper and more firm than the "bounce" or "floating" ride of the 8in tires. The best way to describe it, is what was previously a half-second "bounce" became a 1/10th of a second "jolt". NOTE: When I bought this mower, it came equipped with these tires in 2-ply configuration. They rode better, but I've yet to see any 2-ply tire rated for the weight of this mower, and my manual specifically addressed this issue with a warning to only use 6-ply tires of appropriate load rating.

3rd option (currently installed): Carlisle 24×12×12 6-ply "AT101". This is a "chevron" or "bar" tread tire... similar to an "ag" tread, but much less exaggerated, with rounded edges on the outside. PROS: MUCH BETTER traction in all conditions, best flotation, best sidehill stability CONS: WORST for scuffing while turning tightly or uphill, picks up more bumps than any of the other options OVERALL: In my applications, it just works better... but the ride took some getting used to... ESPECIALLY downhill handling. You would think a simple 1inch larger diameter wouldn't change much... if anything, it should raise the fulcrum point, putting better weight transfer to the back axle. If you're not careful while operating with these tires, they can do more harm than good (scuffing turf, off-loading the rear axle going downhill, or simply increased traction getting you into more precarious operating conditions [steeper slopes, etc.]) In short, these are the most capable tires you can buy, but require a bit of added attention while operating. These tires WILL NOT clear the OEM return spring for the brakes. My brakes were DOA, so I simply removed the springs. If you're brakes are functional, you can buy a cheap set of 5-lug spacers to resolve the issue.

4th option (haven't used... yet): 24×12×12 turf tires... they will fit... but more than likely will also require spacers, if the wheels aren't appropriately backspaced. SPECULATIONS: more bumps, but more stability and traction... chains will cost about the same (if not less) because it's a more common size than 23×10.50. Replacements will be more readily available, as this is also a more common size found on commercial zero turn mowers. 12 inch wheels are also more readily available. The Carlisle "AT101" tires I mentioned above, were sourced from Rural King, pre-mounted on new wheels, for $105 a piece ($210 for the pair). If you figure in the cost of valve stems and wheels, that was a steal.

5th option: "budget", "off-brand", or "china" tires. In my opinion, the worst option. As Xfaxman and I have discussed previously... they just don't last like they used to. The rubber is typically of lower quality, and a harder compound. You may this harder would last longer... but it doesn't (ask me how I know). The tread edges get rounded, and they lose traction with most of the tread remaining... then they dry rot, crack, or simply delaminate. Some guys swear by Kenda... I think I've even seen them on a couple of Xfaxman's units.... but their bar pattern is too sharp on the edges for me, and cut into the turf too much. If you live on the flats, not a problem. If you think about going near a ditch or embankment, expect turf damage.

Again, this might be late... but it's my experience with the issue. Hope it helps!

 

[MultiMow]

Delete

 

[MultiMow]

Cool thanks.

Has anyone put wider tires on these for better flotation over soft ground? I see 23x10.5x12 was an option for these. Would something wider fit?

Yes. 24x12x12 will fit. The problem is backspacing. You will either have to find wheels with enough backspacing to clear the brake return springs, add spacers, or remove the springs. Any taller than 24 inches, and you'll have to put spacers and longer bolts in the axle mounting brackets to clear the fenders, and may run into drive coupler wear.

 

[MultiMow]

The service manual says there are two types of rear axles, the Insaka, and Dae Wong. This is why they have two types of clutches.

Service manual also says the reason for the over running clutch is during sharp turns the tail end swings out in a wider arc than the drive wheels. This causes the rear tires to turn faster than the front. I’m assuming this would cause binding and such on a full time 4wd set up.

Double check to make sure you have the correct year manual.

Both of my axles are Spicer (Dana). Surprisingly enough... the rear axle is an on-road axle, while the front is a GT20 off-road axle. The GT20 was used in a lot of heavier garden tractors in the 80s and 90s. A few John Deere models used the same drive axle with the "U" version of the Sundstrand series 15 transmission. Some Massey Fergusons used the same setup. One tractor (can't remember the manufacturer) was basically a 328-D in reverse (typical "ag tractor" front steer).

I wish I could remember the series number of my rear axle (200, maybe?). I'll have to dig it up.

 

[MultiMow]

Could you get more pics of how your snowblower mounts?

Which snowblower do you have?

How does your shoot turn?

I have Toro 150 Accra industries Model 44910 I have never been able to find another to see how the chute was from the factory or exactly how it is supposed to mount to the machine.

I am in the process of making gauge/bogey wheels on the sides to keep it from sinking and scooping up the loose gravel in my drive

Post a pic of your snow blower. It may be like the one I helped sell last year. I'll see if I can find pics.

 

[MultiMow]

That’s too bad, cause this guy has a brand new deck shell for me for almost nothing.

If it's a good deck, and you can get the ENTIRE driveshaft, you can use it... but you have to have the rear portion of the driveshaft, as the splines are different. It's a simple roll pin holding the rear section in place. I did that to run an old Groundsmaster 72 deck on my '98 325-D until I found my flail deck.

 

[MultiMow]

Has anyone upgraded their old worn out seats with a suspension seat? I have a bad back and will need all the help I can get with my rough ground. Let’s see some pics of your seat upgrades.

It's a simple swap... but after having sat on one recently, AND having a bad back.... I'll take the bumps. The suspension seat was too high for me (I'm 5'10"). By the time I raised it up enough to absorb any reasonable amount of bumps... either my legs were dangling, or I was putting more pressure on my legs trying to stay stable.

You're experience might be different, but I didn't care for it.

 

[MultiMow]

Thank you for clearing that up. Have you ever noticed your 4wd kicking in on a steep slope or loose Ground? I would imagine it is almost transparent to the operator when it does start to work.

I found a picture of that strange side discharge deck with the removable front lip. It is in fact a groundsmaster deck, the one in this pic appears to be a 60”.

View attachment 573499

I have only "noticed" mine engaging a couple times... and that was because I had old 8.5" tires up front, going up a steeper hill than I should, and watched the back tires digging in to make up for lost traction. It only takes about an inch or less of front tire slip to engage the clutch on mine. Without looking, you'd have never known it. I'm sure glad I have 4wd with the new Carlisle AT101s... I'd hate to see the tracks they would dig going uphill without the rear helping.

 

[Turbys_1700]

If you don't see an appreciable difference in PTO load with the standard high lift blades... you have bigger problems (spindles, PTO bushings/alignment, U-joint wear, etc.).

It's worth noting... if you have the Guardian Recycler mulching deck (pardon me for not scrolling back to verify), you will always have problems when cutting more than 2 or 3 inches of growth. They simply can't process the clippings into small enough pieces to fall out of the vacuum, through the blade path, and back to the ground. Mulching decks process clippings 3 to 8 times as much as side or rear discharge. Furthermore, unlike other decks which will force evacuate clumps... mulching decks simply load up in the top of the blade chambers, increasing turbulence and load on the blades.

It is the regular 72" deck. The gator blades lift and re-cut the grass very well but pull the motor down a lot in thick grass. I hope the regular lift blades pull easier. There is no comparison to the quality of cut with my 6 foot Woods RFM. The Groundsmaster grooms the yard. Grass dispersion is excellent. My yard has never looked better. I can imagine the load a mulching deck would put on the unit to be extreme in thick grass. Thanks to you and Xfaxman for your knowledge on these units.

 

[MultiMow]

I tried gators on my mulching deck before I knew better... not good

 

[jrsavoie]

Post a pic of your snow blower. It may be like the one I helped sell last year. I'll see if I can find pics.

This is what I have on the computer for starters. I can try to get more pics

 

[JohnBuffaloMN]

SNIP -

Again, this might be late... but it's my experience with the issue. Hope it helps!

Thank you for that extensive list of details! I appreciate it. It's going to snow here soon, and I think I'm going to go with the 23×10.50x12 turf tires and rubber tire "chains". I've seen a set on CL for about 1/3 what I'd pay, so I think I'm gonna see if the rims will fit

 

[MultiMow]

Thank you for that extensive list of details! I appreciate it. It's going to snow here soon, and I think I'm going to go with the 23×10.50x12 turf tires and rubber tire "chains". I've seen a set on CL for about 1/3 what I'd pay, so I think I'm gonna see if the rims will fit

23x10.50x12 is a guaranteed fit on factory Toro wheels. That was the optional tire size available from the factory. You should have no problem at all.

 

[jrsavoie]

If it's a good deck, and you can get the ENTIRE driveshaft, you can use it... but you have to have the rear portion of the driveshaft, as the splines are different. It's a simple roll pin holding the rear section in place. I did that to run an old Groundsmaster 72 deck on my '98 325-D until I found my flail deck.

I would think that if his gear box is good, he could use that and his drive shafts or if the U-joints are the same, he could use them as a coupler if he wished.

If they are dirt cheap, I'd be on it.

 

[Asymair95]

Whew...that was an education. Thank you multimow for all that info, it will surely come in handy in the next few weeks.

I picked up my new/used deck today from Craigslist. It is in pretty good shape, some cracks, dents, bends...the usual abused equipment issues. The good news is there is little to no rot, lots of rust, but no cancer issues.



The deck as received.



Standard 72” SD. 30721 model number.



Going to have to spend some quality time with the mig to fix the cracks and reattach various skid pads and such.



Spindles pulled. Not looking forward to doing this on the rotted decks I’m going to be using for parts. These were hard enough to get off and there wasn’t much rust.



Straightening the front and back lips with a couple plates of steel and a pipe wrench. The back lip is bent bad and going to take some engineering to straighten out. Will weld some thick plate steel to the outside that sticks out past the deck so I can get a leverage arm on it to bend the lip back in.

I might start a new thread when I begin going over my 322 and 325 getting them ready for front line service...or should I do that here? What are the sop’s for that?

Multimow, I’m beginning to worry about this driveshaft issue you brought up. I think I might have a problem, will find out on Friday I guess.