Steel prices - Yikes!

[dragoneggs]

Okay Mark to answer your question ,NO.

If I need the material for a project the price is irrelevant. I figure “it is what it is”.

However to prevent a heart attack I just sign the packing slip and have them mail me the invoice. By the time the girls at the office process payment I’ll have forgotten what it was for anyway.

Ha ha... I thought about opening a house account and have them bill me, but I am an infrequent enough buyer that I thought that was snobbish of me and I kind of wanted to know my project costs, even if they are almost always just for my own consumption.

But... if I did that, I might might not hesitate at the counter when ordering. And then that leads to the need to fab a steel storage rack! :laughing:

 

[firemech]

Maybe, maybe not. We own a marina in Canada and for years have bought Mirrocraft boats and Montego Bay pontoon boats built in Gillete Wisconsin. But with a 10 % builder increase and a 25%tariff on aluminum we won't be buying any this tear will buy Canadian until the tariff leaves. I know I represent a very small portion of their production but most of the marina dealers in Ontario are of the same opinion regarding American purchases, we don't hate the product or Americans but can't justify a 35 \5 increase in our boats to satisfy Donald's ego. I will be shopping Canadian

 

[jjp8182]

You have given examples of non-economic methods of influence (espionage, propaganda, social media, etc...) but my question is specfically about "weaponized capitalism," or how they will use trade to destroy us by making us dependant on them. While quite possibly real and worthy of discussion, none of those other threats are the result of us having any particular balance of trade with them. What is the mechanism by which they will convert their large amounts of exports into coercion of our citizens?

I think it matters because this thread is about a steel tariff, which so far as I can see has nothing whatsoever to do with espionage or propaganda or social media firings, but has a great deal to do with harming Americans. I want to know what market-based threat is so fearful that it is worth the great cost to Americans (in higher prices and lost jobs and retaliatory tariffs) that this tariff will inevitably bring?

And, as a follow-up, if the purpose of the tariff is to negate an existential threat to our country from China, please explain why Canada and the EU are also subject to the tariff?

I don't want to stray too much further from the OP, but with regards to steel (and many other products) many of those countries have been placing tariffs (or other restrictions) on US goods for years with no real reciprocating actions on behalf of the US (of which I'm aware) which has cost the US a great many jobs and completely precluded US exports in others (which limit US job growth). So I'm just not seeing how what the US is doing is really any different than what they've been on the receiving end of for years, other than it's being used as a tool to stimulate negotiation of new trade treaties (as was recently completed with Canada and Mexico).

As for which particular method any country could/would use as a weapon I honestly don't know I'm not them, I just see potential courses of action they could take. From my viewpoint, letting someone (intentionally or not) devastate/eliminate US industry by dropping the price at which anyone who isn't being subsidized would even stand a chance at competing (no matter which country they are located) seems counter to the long term interests of the US. Just as it probably should for any other country with their own their manufacturing capabilities -- particularly given how the current trade spats/wars have affected so many.

So in the interest of getting back comes to the original question being posted, I can't say that I'm feeling much more pain than usual since I have a tendency to look for certain qualities/features in products I buy and it rarely seems to result in me buying the cheapest solution that'd be suitable for the purpose ...and I'm typically not buying in quantities where I'm seeing price breaks for quantity either.

 

[airbiscuit]

Hope you don't need a washing machine anytime soon...

 

[ruffdog]

Local bridge bids $1.3 million higher mostly because of the steel tariffs and uncertainty. State and Fed grants won't cover it so the city has the burden.
Some downtown merchants bracing for Milwaukee Street bridge tear-out | Business | gazettextra.com

 

[jjp8182]

I'm starting to wonder if some of the price changes are more local or regional changes since in my area about the only thing I've really noticed going up in price lately is fuel (though I also wouldn't be surprised if things being overpriced in this area are becoming the status quo given the abundance of small to medium government/defense contractors in the region).

...of course now that I think about it a bit further I'd also be curious to know how much of the price increases are due to tariffs vs. how much is due to emotion-driven speculation in the commodity markets (especially after looking at steel futures, and past market prices).

 

[airbiscuit]

...

...of course now that I think about it a bit further I'd also be curious to know how much of the price increases are due to tariffs vs. how much is due to emotion-driven speculation in the commodity markets (especially after looking at steel futures, and past market prices).

The tariffs weren't well thought out and started all this.

 

[houstonscott]

Hope you don't need a washing machine anytime soon...

Wouldn’t buy a Chinese one....

 

[D2Cat]

Hope you don't need a washing machine anytime soon...

Why, are we running out of water?

 

[firemech]

Surprised your cost is up! Donald's tariff on steel and aluminum has kicked us Canadians in the nuts, but didn't realize they were gouging you guys too.

 

[ruffdog]

It seems tariff wars just end up to be extra taxes and costs for everyone. Time will tell how this ends..........

 

[Big Barn]

Heres what $200 will buy you

Looked at an invoice today:
2x3x3/16 angle 20 feet
2x3 HSS 1/8 24 feet
2.5” HSS receiver 2 feet



That’s it sitting on the roller table (minus the 2.5” receiver tube)

$195 Cdn before taxes.

 

[dragoneggs]

Heres what $200 will buy you

Looked at an invoice today:
2x3x3/16 angle 20 feet
2x3 HSS 1/8 24 feet
2.5” HSS receiver 2 feet

View attachment 573658

That’s it sitting on the roller table (minus the 2.5” receiver tube)

$195 Cdn before taxes.

I'm tempted to get a quote from my LWS just to compare.

 

[Big Barn]

Yes. That would be interesting.

 

[BukitCase]

If I'm reading the descriptions right, total weight would be just over 166 pounds - my price on that from Ram Steelco would be right at $170 USD, free delivery (over $100) - I'm guessing it'd be higher from a LWS... Steve

(considering exchange rate, sounds like you're doin' OK Terry :=)

 

[dragoneggs]

If I'm reading the descriptions right, total weight would be just over 166 pounds - my price on that from Ram Steelco would be right at $170 USD, free delivery (over $100) - I'm guessing it'd be higher from a LWS... Steve

That's my problem. I need to find a much cheaper option than my LWS.

 

[BukitCase]

I'd be glad to help you out Mark (even do the first cut free), but somehow I doubt that the USPS Large flat rate box would be up to the task ... Steve

 

[BukitCase]

Seriously tho, have you checked with Farwest steel in Renton?
Steel Supply, Plate, Sheet, Bars, Cutting, Processing - Renton, WA and Seattle Puget Sound | Farwest Steel

If they're like RamSteel tho, it's full stick ONLY... Steve

(I've got a couple friends that call me if they need "shorties", if I have what they need I just use that chart and charge 'em the going rate per pound)

 

[crazyal]

My brother in law is mid level exec at a large company. They made computer equipment for cars and their goods were subject to a 25% tariff if not made in China. A few years ago he was tasked with opening up a factory in China and manage it for a few years. At the last minute (after they sold their house) it fell through. This is what he told me. For the company to open a factory it had to be jointly owned with a Chinese company. The Chinese company would own more than 50% of the plant. All trade secrets needed to make the plant run would have to be given to the Chinese company.

When the company started to dig deeper into it they found out that what often happens is once the Chinese partner has access to your patents and trade secrets within a short period of time other Chinese companies start making the same goods the same way you make them for less. If you try to go to court to stop them the Chinese government pretty much says "no infringement" and dismisses the case no matter how blatant it is. Once that happens the other all Chinese companies suddenly get financial help from the government and in a matter of years you can't compete with them forcing the company to just buy from an all China owned plant. The conclusion was that it was a long term looser so they backed out of it.

China has over a billion people and it's government is going to do everything it can to keep them working. If that means a 25% tariff on US made cars then that's what they will do unless forced to stop. The fact that we only have a 2.5% tariff on Chinese made cars is our fault. Either we feel the short term pain and force China (and other countries) to play by the same rules as we make them play by to do business here or we will find ourselves selling raw goods to other countries while others produce the final product. It'll be hard to have a middle class if we don't stop this now. As it is automation is not far off and will change the landscape once again in some areas.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

My brother in law is mid level exec at a large company. They made computer equipment for cars and their goods were subject to a 25% tariff if not made in China. A few years ago he was tasked with opening up a factory in China and manage it for a few years. At the last minute (after they sold their house) it fell through. This is what he told me. For the company to open a factory it had to be jointly owned with a Chinese company. The Chinese company would own more than 50% of the plant. All trade secrets needed to make the plant run would have to be given to the Chinese company.

When the company started to dig deeper into it they found out that what often happens is once the Chinese partner has access to your patents and trade secrets within a short period of time other Chinese companies start making the same goods the same way you make them for less. If you try to go to court to stop them the Chinese government pretty much says "no infringement" and dismisses the case no matter how blatant it is. Once that happens the other all Chinese companies suddenly get financial help from the government and in a matter of years you can't compete with them forcing the company to just buy from an all China owned plant. The conclusion was that it was a long term looser so they backed out of it.

China has over a billion people and it's government is going to do everything it can to keep them working. If that means a 25% tariff on US made cars then that's what they will do unless forced to stop. The fact that we only have a 2.5% tariff on Chinese made cars is our fault. Either we feel the short term pain and force China (and other countries) to play by the same rules as we make them play by to do business here or we will find ourselves selling raw goods to other countries while others produce the final product. It'll be hard to have a middle class if we don't stop this now. As it is automation is not far off and will change the landscape once again in some areas.

Exactly what they did in telco equipment. Then they practically gave the equipment away to gain market share.