JD 310A fuel/air problem or?

[Guy37]

I have owned a 1978 JD 310A for the last 28 years to work (mostly to improve the decor)
on my small farm.
Last week, while working to pick up some heavy dirt, it quitted on me. No way to start it again.
A mechanic friend of mine, though not an expert on diesel motor, checked to see if the fuel was coming
through the filter, the pumps and the injectors. When everything was screwed back in place, surprisingly it worked again
for a while, although the motor was not settling properly, turning faster and then slower.
Yesterday, I changed the fuel filter and I was able to start it to move it a few feet as needed.
Today, nothing. It seems no fuel goes to the injectors. The transfer pump was taken out, checked and
is in working order. Fuel runs freely from the tank to the transfer pump.
It also goes to the injectors pump but still it does not start even with ether.

Does somebody knows where I should look at to fix this problem?
Thank you.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Yes.. u see that fitting on the top cover on the injection pump?? the 1 the return line screws onto..
Remove ALL the fittings.. ALL THE WAY DOWN to the alum. top cover.. you should have an open hole on the top cover..
NOW START IT..
IF it starts, the check ball in the fitting is clogged.. & that's not a GOOD THING.. prob. means the flex ring inside the pump has broken up & is sending chunks back to the tank.. or trying to..
The reason it shuts off is.. if u cant get fuel OUT.. u cant get fuel IN..
I rebuild those pumps & have 25-30 years experience.. lemme know if I can help.. TPG

 

[Tx Jim]

Ditto what thepumpguysc stated BUT a simpler test is loosen the 2 screws on timing window on IP. Be sure gasket is loose from pump housing,start engine if it runs correctly check valve in return line is clogged as previously stated by TPG.

 

[Guy37]

Yes.. u see that fitting on the top cover on the injection pump?? the 1 the return line screws onto..
Remove ALL the fittings.. ALL THE WAY DOWN to the alum. top cover.. you should have an open hole on the top cover..
NOW START IT..
IF it starts, the check ball in the fitting is clogged.. & that's not a GOOD THING.. prob. means the flex ring inside the pump has broken up & is sending chunks back to the tank.. or trying to..
The reason it shuts off is.. if u cant get fuel OUT.. u cant get fuel IN..
I rebuild those pumps & have 25-30 years experience.. lemme know if I can help.. TPG

Thanks TPG, I should be able to do it in a few days. I was only thinking of a way to get the fuel in. Now I have to think differently.
If the injection pump is the problem, I'll find somebody to do it because this is too complicated for me.

 

[Guy37]

Ditto what thepumpguysc stated BUT a simpler test is loosen the 2 screws on timing window on IP. Be sure gasket is loose from pump housing,start engine if it runs correctly check valve in return line is clogged as previously stated by TPG.

Thanks Jim. I am a novice, so could you point the 2 screws you're referring to?

 

[thepumpguysc]

The 2 screws are on the side cover plate on the side of the pump..
Personally I don't use that method.. because if it turns out THATS NOT the problem, 9x outa 10 you screwed up the cover gasket.
& you end up searching for 1.. ordering it, waiting.. on & on..
A couple wrenches & u have your answer, using my method.
I can do that pump for ya.. {hence the screen name}

 

[Guy37]

Yes.. u see that fitting on the top cover on the injection pump?? the 1 the return line screws onto..
Remove ALL the fittings.. ALL THE WAY DOWN to the alum. top cover.. you should have an open hole on the top cover..
NOW START IT..
IF it starts, the check ball in the fitting is clogged.. & that's not a GOOD THING..


Well, it did not start and I hope it's a GOOD THING. The glass check ball looks clean and move easily.
I put the fitting back on but the motor did not want to start.
I primed manually the transfer pump and fuel would come out on top of the fuel filter once the plastic bold was loosened. Still, it did not want to start even with some ether.
Would you have some idea as to where I should look for?

 

[thepumpguysc]

Did u try to start it w/ the check ball fitting removed?? That's what u need to do..
1 more test then.. try to remove the top cover on the injection pump..
Its just 3 screws.. The metering valve might be stuck in the shut off position..
Just google > "roosa master metering valve" to find what your looking for..

Did u make sure u have power going TO the electric shut off solenoid, located in the top cover of the inj. pump??
U should be able to HEAR it click when u turn the key on.. & FEEL it thru the t. cover....

 

[thepumpguysc]

1 more thing.. if the MV is free, put the cover back on..
Remove the inlet fitting{brass elbow} & fill that inlet piece on the inj. pump w/ fuel, all the way to the top..
Now crank the engine.. did the fuel get sucked in?? or is it still at the top?? IF its at the top, that means the internals aren't spinning & sucking it down.. Time to pull the pump..
Let me know how it goes.. U can reach me direct if u want.. click on my screen name & send me an email..

 

[Guy37]

Did u try to start it w/ the check ball fitting removed?? That's what u need to do..
1 more test then.. try to remove the top cover on the injection pump..
Its just 3 screws.. The metering valve might be stuck in the shut off position..
Just google > "roosa master metering valve" to find what your looking for..

Did u make sure u have power going TO the electric shut off solenoid, located in the top cover of the inj. pump??
U should be able to HEAR it click when u turn the key on.. & FEEL it thru the t. cover....

Yes, I tried to start it with the check valve removed.
With the cover off, I can see the metering valve, but I am not sure what to look for.
I am not sure if the electric shut off solenoid works, because when I am in the cab I can hear clicks but I cannot say if this its from this solenoid.

 

[Guy37]

1 more thing.. if the MV is free, put the cover back on..
Remove the inlet fitting{brass elbow} & fill that inlet piece on the inj. pump w/ fuel, all the way to the top..
Now crank the engine.. did the fuel get sucked in?? or is it still at the top?? IF its at the top, that means the internals aren't spinning & sucking it down.. Time to pull the pump..
Let me know how it goes.. U can reach me direct if u want.. click on my screen name & send me an email..

Yes, the MV moves freely.
I got a surprise when I took the cover off. It was full of fuel that I drained off and then saw some black gunk.
Where do I go from here, talk to my bank manager?
Thank you again TPG, you're helping me a lot and probably some other people also.

 

[thepumpguysc]

That's the classic "mouse turd" syndrome.. or coffee grounds..
The flex ring has come apart inside the pump.. & a rebuild is required.
I can help you out w/ that.. just click on my name..

 

[thepumpguysc]

Nothing left to do but to pull the pump & get it rebuilt..
You should time it BEFORE u remove it tho.. it makes for a much easier re-install..
Behind that side cover on the pump are2 lines.. 1 is stationary & 1 rotates..
Turn the engine over by hand until the 2 lines meet & stop..
The drive shaft will stay in the engine.. just shut off the fuel or pinch the line & remove all the lines & linkages..
& the 2-3 nuts holding the pump to the block & twist & pull back..
The way I understand it, you guys up there are having a very hard time finding a decent fuel shop??
& when u do find 1, you get raped on price & turn-around time.. 2-3x more than in the States.
I've never done business across the border so I don't know what it entails.. but I would gladly do your pump for you..

 

[Guy37]

Nothing left to do but to pull the pump & get it rebuilt..
You should time it BEFORE u remove it tho.. it makes for a much easier re-install..
Behind that side cover on the pump are2 lines.. 1 is stationary & 1 rotates..
Turn the engine over by hand until the 2 lines meet & stop..
The drive shaft will stay in the engine.. just shut off the fuel or pinch the line & remove all the lines & linkages..
& the 2-3 nuts holding the pump to the block & twist & pull back..
The way I understand it, you guys up there are having a very hard time finding a decent fuel shop??
& when u do find 1, you get raped on price & turn-around time.. 2-3x more than in the States.
I've never done business across the border so I don't know what it entails.. but I would gladly do your pump for you..

You're right, there is not many decent fuel shop around here. I am lucky (?) because there is one 10 minutes away.
But before I pay the price they charge, I'll try to do it myself, something I am not really interested in doing.
Besides that, if there is a problem with the casing which they'll know when putting the pump on a "bench", its a lot more money.
I have bought and sold a lot of stuff on Ebay so it's no problem sending or receiving packages across our countries.
I have sent you a personal email so that you can quote me a price for the rebuilding of my IP. Thank you.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I tried to email you back but the email wont go thru..

 

[Guy37]

That's the classic "mouse turd" syndrome.. or coffee grounds..
The flex ring has come apart inside the pump.. & a rebuild is required.
I can help you out w/ that.. just click on my name..

Well, TPG was right. The flex ring had come apart, 6 parts to be exact.
I am doing the rebuild myself to save a fair amount of money. It's a bit scary.
There are so many parts. I doing on slowly and I have some videos on my
computer by my side. And I take pictures all along. So far so good.

 

[thepumpguysc]

How did u get the cam ball out?
Are u going to use a new flex ring or an EID weight retainer?{solid}
Does your pilot tube have any grooves?

 

[Guy37]

How did u get the cam ball out?
Are u going to use a new flex ring or an EID weight retainer?{solid}
Does your pilot tube have any grooves?

When I reached the flex ring, I stopped dismantling the pump.
The flex ring I put in came with the rebuilding kit I got. Probably made of nylon.
This took me a while since I was afraid to tear in up. If the weather is nice,
I'll try to put it back on tomorrow. But before that, I need to figure out how
to change the umbrella seals on the shaft. I thought this shaft would come out
when I pulled the pump.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Take a GOOD LOOK at the seals & reff. your pic.. 1 goes towards the engine & 1 towards the pump.
There is a tool{tube} that slides over the shaft & then u slide the seals on the tube..
You can use a plastic bag to help glide the seal on.. the plastic will help the seals from not entering any grooves..
Lube the H*LL outa them.. I use vasoline, as it washes away.. UNLIKE grease..
The DS seals are very forgiving & flexable.. Don't be afraid to pull & tug on them..
Good luck.

 

[Zebrafive]

Thanks for sharing TPGSC. Not much info posted about injection pumps. My JD tech manual has nothing in it.