Steel prices - Yikes!

[radios1]

We make about 4K pounds of aluminum chips and turnings every month. Aluminum is up 80 cents this year a pound for new and we get a whopping 2 cents over what we were being paid last year when it was almost a dollar cheaper. Our scrap buyer said that since china has stopped importation of scrap, we now make more than the foundries can process and it is just piling up looking for a buyer. Starting to feel like five years ago when steel turnings got down to a penny a pound and often we just gave them away to get them out. Nobody wins in a trade war.

the U.S.A. will win in a trade war, since we will open the closed foundries and make our own steel and aluminum!. depending on China was absurd from the beginning!.. we have to depend on ourselves now.. greed got us into this mess in the beginning!.. we will eventually have much higher quality products than we could ever get from imports!.. by replacing junk with high quality products!.. employing our workers right here will be a good thing..

 

[strantor]

I skimmed all 7 pages of this thread and saw scrap prices mentioned a couple of times, but it was just in terms of current scrap price (hasn't gone up proportionally with steel price). Please excuse me if it's already been addressed and I missed it, but...

Any speculation on the future of scrap prices? I have an old broken forklift in my driveway, and I'm wondering if I should hold on to it a while or go ahead and try to scrap it now. I'm going to take the engine and transmission and hydraulics out, so it should be pretty straightforward 3-4 tons of scrap iron by the time I turn it in.

 

[cdb2]

the U.S.A. will win in a trade war, since we will open the closed foundries and make our own steel and aluminum!. depending on China was absurd from the beginning!.. we have to depend on ourselves now.. greed got us into this mess in the beginning!.. we will eventually have much higher quality products than we could ever get from imports!.. by replacing junk with high quality products!.. employing our workers right here will be a good thing..

What does winning the trade war mean to you? Is re-opening unprofitable foundries that will fail again as soon as their trade protections are dropped really winning? In twenty years when a future administration has cancelled the tariffs and the foundries are closed again and we've nothing to show for it except billions of dollars of wasted capital and drastically higher prices for everything you buy at a store, will that still be winning?

As always, consumers here and abroad are going to bear the cost of gov interference through increased prices and the corresponding decrease in quality of life.

 

[radios1]

What does winning the trade war mean to you? Is re-opening unprofitable foundries that will fail again as soon as their trade protections are dropped really winning? In twenty years when a future administration has cancelled the tariffs and the foundries are closed again and we've nothing to show for it except billions of dollars of wasted capital and drastically higher prices for everything you buy at a store, will that still be winning?

As always, consumers here and abroad are going to bear the cost of gov interference through increased prices and the corresponding decrease in quality of life.

MY Country is the U.S.A.! and I have faith that we can do fine without an evil nanny!. just like we have done for hundreds of years!. it's GREED that fed our downfall.. but MY Country can rise up again, and do itself good!..

 

[ArlyA]

You got that right. I just completed reading a book on the history of steel. The US steel corporations kept on building more integrated mills until it caught up with them in the 70's. Mini mills and other corporations concentrated on building BOFs* and making them as efficient as possible. And that includes other nations. We still have a good steel industry here and no shock, its the most efficient ones who remain.

*basic oxygen furnace or Basic oxygen steelmaking - Wikipedia

What does winning the trade war mean to you? Is re-opening unprofitable foundries that will fail again as soon as their trade protections are dropped really winning? In twenty years when a future administration has cancelled the tariffs and the foundries are closed again and we've nothing to show for it except billions of dollars of wasted capital and drastically higher prices for everything you buy at a store, will that still be winning?

As always, consumers here and abroad are going to bear the cost of gov interference through increased prices and the corresponding decrease in quality of life.

 

[cdb2]

MY Country is the U.S.A.! and I have faith that we can do fine without an evil nanny!. just like we have done for hundreds of years!. it's GREED that fed our downfall.. but MY Country can rise up again, and do itself good!..

I do not think I understand this argument. Who is the evil nanny? Who were the greedy ones that fed our downfall?

Most importantly, what is different today that will make the failed foundries profitable once the government protections are removed?

 

[Ritothebull]

It's not just steel prices that are rising, just bought some cat litter and prices are up 30% and it's not imported, I'm seeing prices rising on different things everywhere I look and many are manufactured here.

 

[radios1]

I do not think I understand this argument. Who is the evil nanny? Who were the greedy ones that fed our downfall?

Most importantly, what is different today that will make the failed foundries profitable once the government protections are removed?

removing protections would be Treason, as it would be devastating to our economy, and our workers!.. the evil nanny's are the Countries we let take over our manufacturing, they are looking out for themselves, but to some, it appears they are bailing us out, but that is far from true.. the greedy one's that fed our downfall are the U.S.A. based Companies that allowed foreign Companies to take over our manufacturing, seeing large profits in the short term was more important to them!.. Americans suffer from that!..

 

[airbiscuit]

Joe Biden has often said "It's never a good bet to bet against the U.S." I agree with that statement. We win when we innovate and outcompete the rest of the world. Lashing out with tariffs and protectionism sounds tough, but it isn't smart.

Businesses are thriving when they invest in technology, and individuals thrive when they invest in their education and skills (for the 21st century). Hoping you can make it at the old school business where your old man worked and the old man before him worked is like hoping 8 track tapes will make a comeback.

 

[dragoneggs]

Joe Biden has often said "It's never a good bet to bet against the U.S." I agree with that statement. We win when we innovate and outcompete the rest of the world. Lashing out with tariffs and protectionism sounds tough, but it isn't smart.

Businesses are thriving when they invest in technology, and individuals thrive when they invest in their education and skills (for the 21st century). Hoping you can make it at the old school business where your old man worked and the old man before him worked is like hoping 8 track tapes will make a comeback.

I think (I hope) the tariffs are part of a larger plan to balance trade between China and the US. Sure it is going to hurt some, help others but hopefully down the road our net import/export dollars will balance out a bit.

 

[radios1]

Joe Biden has often said "It's never a good bet to bet against the U.S." I agree with that statement. We win when we innovate and outcompete the rest of the world. Lashing out with tariffs and protectionism sounds tough, but it isn't smart.

Businesses are thriving when they invest in technology, and individuals thrive when they invest in their education and skills (for the 21st century). Hoping you can make it at the old school business where your old man worked and the old man before him worked is like hoping 8 track tapes will make a comeback.

it was NEVER smart to have another Country to manufacture for us, we can't depend on that, and also, it puts many people here out of work, and closes manufacturing here. what will happen if the other Country ceases to exist?. that could happen, and possibly soon..

 

[airbiscuit]

I think (I hope) the tariffs are part of a larger plan to balance trade between China and the US. Sure it is going to hurt some, help others but hopefully down the road our net import/export dollars will balance out a bit.

I'd like to think your right, but tariff wars seldom work. Messing with our friend and ally Canada is DUMB, DUMB, DUMB.

 

[John_Mc]

removing protections would be Treason, as it would be devastating to our economy, and our workers!

Actually, as has been shown time and time again, tariffs are devastating to our economy and our workers. The most recent previous steel tariffs under George W Bush in 2002 saved a few jobs in the basic steel industry, but cost many more jobs in downstream steel-using industries.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

In time we will know the results of current and coming actions. Sometimes one has to act then keep tweaking until objectives start to be realized. What if there are other solutions that are not as steel based that may work even better?

 

[airbiscuit]

it was NEVER smart to have another Country to manufacture for us, we can't depend on that, and also, it puts many people here out of work, and closes manufacturing here. what will happen if the other Country ceases to exist?. that could happen, and possibly soon..

If you have advanced manufacturing skills (CNC Machinist, CNC Programmer, Maintenance Technician, Automation Technician, Engineer), You will be in demand for work, and making $$$. If you are unskilled, well they can do unskilled in Bangladesh for a lot less $. The ground has shifted for good paying jobs. Some people upskill and thrive, others hope for a past that will never return.

 

[radios1]

If you have advanced manufacturing skills (CNC Machinist, CNC Programmer, Maintenance Technician, Automation Technician, Engineer), You will be in demand for work, and making $$$. If you are unskilled, well they can do unskilled in Bangladesh for a lot less $. The ground has shifted for good paying jobs. Some people upskill and thrive, others hope for a past that will never return.

you just listed most of my job qualifications, and previous jobs, but I still like higher quality products, and don't like the U.S.A. to suffer.. a steelworker is a very skilled field too..

 

[BMan2005]

Bought some metal a few weeks ago and talked to the owner while there about the price increase. His response, I'm making less per pound on steel now, but I'm tired of having crappy steel come through my shop that was imported, and he felt strongly that in time production will catch up with demand and things will level out. Was kinda reassuring to hear this from a man feeling a slight squeeze from things and still feel very confident in the product he's getting and the end results to come.
Of course I didn't like the price or prices of things yet to come, but we'll see.

Btw, someone mentioned lumber being affected by tarrifs. I'm in the timber business, and I can tell you what wood (timber) is delivered for today is almost identical to the past couple of years. Delivered prices absolutely do not represent what the end product is bringing. The middle man is making mega money right now. That one is not a result of the Tarrifs, at least not so far.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Steel prices jumping 50% or more the day after tariffs go into effect being justified, why didn't SCRAP STEEL prices jump up also?
You KNOW there is going to be a shortage of scrap & what you have on hand is twice as valuable as it was the day before.

Around here the price of scrap has been way down for a year. Yards are all full to overflowing and they are only shipping to gain more space to buy while price is down. Speculating that the price will take off soon. Playing the commodity market.

Ron

 

[cdb2]

Bought some metal a few weeks ago and talked to the owner while there about the price increase. His response, I'm making less per pound on steel now, but I'm tired of having crappy steel come through my shop that was imported, and he felt strongly that in time production will catch up with demand and things will level out. Was kinda reassuring to hear this from a man feeling a slight squeeze from things and still feel very confident in the product he's getting and the end results to come.

Supply may catch up but prices never will. Simply because if it were possible to produce steel domestically for the same price without penalizing the competition, there would already be foundries doing so.

 

[cdb2]

removing protections would be Treason, as it would be devastating to our economy, and our workers!.. the evil nanny's are the Countries we let take over our manufacturing, they are looking out for themselves, but to some, it appears they are bailing us out, but that is far from true.. the greedy one's that fed our downfall are the U.S.A. based Companies that allowed foreign Companies to take over our manufacturing, seeing large profits in the short term was more important to them!.. Americans suffer from that!..

The people who suffer from price increases due to domestic tariffs are other Americans. If foreign steel sold in the US is subject to a 25% price increase by fiat, then it follows that US manufacturers are the ones who have to pay the 25% increase in material cost. Which means that US manufacturers now have to compete on the global market with a 25% handicap in material cost; the foreign manufacturers aren't paying the tariff on their imported steel. It's a redistribution of wealth from US manufacturers (and the consumers who pay more for the goods now produced at a higher cost) to the US steel industry. I guess if you really like the steel industry that might sound good to you, but at the end of the day it's still Americans who are going to pay for this.