Any way to improve FEL hydraulics?

[strantor]

Back to the sagging issue...
I ran a little test to isolate the issue to leaky cylinders or leaky valves. It's definitely the valves.

I raised the FEL to 36" off the ground and set the fork tips level at 36." Turn the tractor off, set timer for 1hr, come back and measure. Fork tips dropped 4.5" overall (1.25" lost in lift + 3.25" in curl). Reset position, turn tractor off, disconnect FEL QDs, set 1hr timer, measure. Lost 0.25" overall (half and half between lift & curl).

 

[4570Man]

The lift didn’t loose any on the second test except what fluids were in the quick connects. The test was unnecessary.

 

[strantor]

Giving the open center series valve situation some more thought, I think it would be more prudent to keep any/all mods confined to the FEL and leave the tractor itself unmolested.

Firstly, If I'm going to void a warranty, I would rather not void the entire tractor warranty. Voiding just the FEL warranty is "fine" I guess LOL.

Secondly, none of this would have come up if I'd had a self-levelling FEL. I would have had no reason to dig into hydraulic schematics or learn the difference between open center and closed center hydraulics, and subsequently become unsatisfied with my tractor. I went down this hydraulic rabbit hole mainly because of the trouble I was having coordinating lift & curl. The bleeding down was a minor issue. Everything I'm complaining about would cease to be an issue if I convert the FEL to self-levelling and install some manual hydraulic lock-out valves on it to prevent sag when I want to use the forks as a work platform (which is often, actually). Converting the FEL seems totally doable actually. This guy did it, and if he can, I don't see why I can't. I do that, and then bury my head in the sand and pretend I don't have subpar hydraulics, I think I can go back to my happy place.

 

[mikester]

The hydraulic perfomance of my XR4140H FEL leaves room for improvement.

Firstly, it doesn't seem to want to lift and curl at the same time. I use pallet forks 90% of the time and this being not an auto-levelling FEL, trying to raise/lower the forks level turns into a jaggy series lift/curl/lift/curl/lift/curl movements. If I have my RPM set real high and I have enough load on the forks, sometimes I can lift level with a semi-fluid motion, but usually not. Any way to improve that?

Also the bleed-down rate seems higher than reasonable. I realize all hydraulics have some amount of bleed-down, but based on my experience with other hydraulic machinery, I would expect that if I lift my forks to waist-height and turn the tractor off, 24-48hrs later it might touch the ground. But this one will be on the ground within an hour. Any adjustments I can make to minimize that?

Sorry to be a bit cheeky but the only way to improve the machine loader hydraulics/performance is to buy a different machine.

If it won't do double acting functions as OEM then you are fighting a losing battle. If you need double acting and self levelling buy a machine that does it already or be prepared to have an expensive hobby with many disappointments - or embrace the machine you have and live with its abilities.

FYI a LOT of AG/CUT tractors will not do what you want or are expecting them to do.

 

[strantor]

Sorry to be a bit cheeky but the only way to improve the machine loader hydraulics/performance is to buy a different machine.

If it won't do double acting functions as OEM then you are fighting a losing battle. If you need double acting and self levelling buy a machine that does it already or be prepared to have an expensive hobby with many disappointments - or embrace the machine you have and live with its abilities.

FYI a LOT of AG/CUT tractors will not do what you want or are expecting them to do.

This is my first tractor. I bought it in a hurry to fill an immediate need, without much research or preparation. I am not known for making impulse purchases (especially on something so expensive), but this was a special case. Now that I have it, and it's financed, I feel very "locked in." Perhaps my dealer would let me trade it in (only has 30hrs on it) but I'm thinking not. I guess it's worth inquiring about.

 

[Avenger]

Please keep us updated on this. I too didn't realize the limitations of the hydraulic system on my tractor. Replacing the FEL Valve seems like a daunting task (not the actual removal and install, but finding the proper one that will fix the issues.)

 

[oldnslo]

I don't really know what I'm talking about, BUT... I don't think it's an open center system. Per my understanding, if it were an open center system, it would be literally only possible to actuate one function at a time. On this loader I can actuate lift and curl at the same time, but it's difficult and only works if the engine RPMs are sufficiently high. Does that still sound like an open center system? (Serious question, not being sarcastic)

Strantor,
Yes you can multifunction with an open center system just not easily. You must feather both valves so that a portion of the flow goes to both functions. The operator must constantly adjust for any change in load.

 

[strantor]

Please keep us updated on this. I too didn't realize the limitations of the hydraulic system on my tractor. Replacing the FEL Valve seems like a daunting task (not the actual removal and install, but finding the proper one that will fix the issues.)

I will keep you updated but don't hold your breath for a hydraulic solution. As I said, I don't plan on tampering with anything that could void my tractor warranty, and even if I did, to my current knowledge the proper fix would not be as simple as just upgrading the FEL valve. The pump, and all the valves would have to changed; the entire system converted to a closed center system. The only potential shortcuts are the modified circuit I posted earlier (which I have no idea if it would work), and you might want to pick up where I left off in researching an upgaded FEL valve with hydraulic "power beyond." If I do anything to this tractor it will probably be a mechanical self-levelling FEL modification.

 

[strantor]

Strantor,
Yes you can multifunction with an open center system just not easily. You must feather both valves so that a portion of the flow goes to both functions. The operator must constantly adjust for any change in load.

Yeah I've tried that. On this tractor it usually doesn't work and when it does it's really slow and irritating.

 

[oldnslo]

strantor,
Some valve companies offer a series / parallel valve option. What this does is that it directs the return flow from the lift - lower spool to the cur - dump spool. This way the flow returning from the lift circuit can be used for the curl circuit. I believe some Kubota models have or had this feature.
Installing a valve with this feature would be beneficial to performing multiple functions.