Road Rage in Florida

[shaeff]

I'm more than careful when I drive. I drive quickly, but always leave plenty of room if a bike is in front of me. I don't want to be that guy who runs over a biker if they have to dump it for some reason.

More often than not, I'll be cruising along at a good pace, and a biker thinks it's cool to ride right off my bumper. I just move to the right and wave them around. They want to go faster, have at it. I don't want to spoil their ride. Oftentimes coming out of toll booths onto bridges here, a biker will try to slip in front of me when there's no room. Scares the crap out of me, I'm 3000+lbs in my car, they're less than 1000lbs, what exactly do they think will happen if we collide?

Anyway, all you riders, be safe out there. The general population doesn't care about your safety even though some of us do. They think with their emotions.


PS- I'm no angel, I've had my fair share of run-ins, but I've grown up a lot in the past few years. I do still get ticked off when I'm cruising at a good pace and someone sees me coming, but pulls out only to do 45mph. But tailgating them doesn't solve anything.

 

[3930dave]

People need to just calm down....I am a victim of a road rage incident. It happened almost 15 years ago now, when I was in my last semester of grad school in Boston. On Comm ave, in broad daylight. It's a 3 lane road, I needed to do a U-turn a ways down the road, so I was in the middle, because I knew the left lane became a "turn only" lane at one of the side streets. After that light, I put on the turn signal, glanced over my shoulder, and moved left. I immediately heard honking. Apparently the guy who was in that lane didn't see the big turn arrows on the road or the signs on the side saying turn only, and I cut him off. There was no contact between cars, but boy he was angry. Next light, the guy pulls up on my right, gets out of his car, and ran around to my driver side door and tried to open it. Luckily it was locked. But he proceeded to punch out the window and grabbed me by the neck and started screaming at me. He seemed to have a moment of clarity, and suddenly ran back to his car and sped off, but not before I got his plate number. The ADA asked me to come back to Boston to testify, but upon being notified I actually showed up, he plead out. I was told the guy was a former marine with a couple pages of bar fights and domestic violence charges. It wasn't a few months later when I saw the news that someone was shot and killed in a road rage incident....it just seems to be getting worse...

I started this link for one or two reasons. Interesting comments...... always more to learn hanging out on TBN..... some feedback surprised me a bit, and I'll get back to that later.

Roads are dangerous enough on 4 wheels. Years ago, I was driving a work vehicle @ 70mph on a divided Canadian highway in the right lane when a transport trailer in the left lane forced me onto the shoulder. We'd come around a sweeping bend in the highway and he wasn't really paying attention - left lane traffic slowed fast, then pretty much stopped. Transport driver swings the wheel and cranks the truck to the right. I hit my brakes hard enough to briefly lock a front wheel (dry pavement), swerve, then eventually stop on the shoulder.

No contact, so it was a win for me, but just barely. One other guy from work was riding with me and said as he was shakily lighting a cigarette "Glad, that was you driving, I would have flipped this vehicle into the ditch". You know it's bad when another guy admits his driving skills wouldn't have cut it.

Add lack of attention to poor driving skills, and maybe throw in substance abuse and/or mental instability, it can get pretty ugly out there. Even fatal - recent RRage incident on a Toronto area expressway left at least one dead, no MC involvement, just cages.

Tailgating is irritating. I filter by vehicle mass. If I'm driving my one-ton, anything much less than a dump truck behind me isn't that big a concern. One of our vehicles is an old Honda Civic - great little car, but the clowns that like to sit 2' behind the bumper in a pickup truck @ 50mph need an attitude adjustment. We don't drive below the speed limit, unless weather/road conditions dictate so.

Yeah, it's a mess out there..... I see the same tailgating behaviour by transport trucks (Southern Ontario 401 has traffic density @ or better than the Santa Monica Freeway, depeding on year/dataset), 70mph @ 2' behind a car bumper. No excuse for that, esp. from a "professional" driver.

Even (and sometimes despite) considering the advances we now have in 4 and 2 wheel technology..... The Physics / Fizx / Fiziks rules out there, when Life / Injury / Death is being determined.

Rgds, D.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I think that's many a bikers fantasy. Kick the car, it crashes and (Instantly) bursts into flames!

Tailgating, my number one irritation. Had one A-hole following too close yesterday. First thing I do, is reduce speed to the speed limit. Maybe a little less. I knew there was a passing lane coming up. I couldn't believe that car stayed behind me in the slow lane. Not one other vehicle anywhere to be seen!

I think most drivers are just brain dead. But what I don't understand is that there is absolutely no public education about safe following distance. None, zero, zip. Yet so much
(needless) property damage occurs on account of this and massive pile ups on occasion. When I learned how to drive, safe following distance was a major point to be driven home.

I can't say that I have ever had a Biker annoy me on the roads. If anything, once or twice I didn't see them and may have pulled out in front of them. Probably just hidden by the front pillar.

 

[3930dave]

The Physics / Fizx / Fiziks rules out there, when Life / Injury / Death is being determined.......

What surprised me a bit in this thread (considering the representation of at least back-when riders) is the reaction to 4 wheeler retaliation as in -> It's "normal", and expected......

Did everybody watch too many 1960's era Outlaw Bikers movies ?

Lacking a gun in a single riders hand, I don't see where the Perceived Threat is. Even a compact car dramatically outweighs a bike, and as per the link I first posted can easily shunt a bike to the side of the road. (The driver in the link IT posted retaliated, but didn't have the driving skills to match the intent).

Proportionality. Take this from another scale...... what if a car cuts off a transport truck - is it "OK" for the transport driver to force the car off the road ? Used to be in the old days, if 2 guys got into a bar-fight and it went to court, it got thrown out - 2 matching idiots went toe-to-toe, nothing to see here. Most would agree, a grown man beating on a little kid is way out of line, and should never happen. (I grew up with Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child era; I'm not talking about spanking, which I still agree with....).

That's what I find interesting (and alarming) about these responses I'm hearing - scale of consequence doesn't really register - even amongst former riders. Coming into riding season here soon, this has provided me with a really important mental reset.

It's not as simple as People Don't Give a ___________, though there is that aspect. A lot of people Don't have a Clue / Don't Think at All about road safety in the context we are discussing.

I stay away from other vehicles, even when on 4 wheels. As a few have posted, crowded roads can mean that if you are on a bike/bicycle you may have to bang on the side of a vehicle crowding into your lane. This thread has me reconsidering my interest in touring the USA on 2 wheels.

Rgds, D.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Well, everywhere you go you see the false facade. People saying, how are you, fine thank you. In truth, many people are not "fine". They have major stress and crisis in their lives. So, in cases like these, it just boils over, short circuits, major freakin overload!

And that's the danger. You never know who or what you are dealing with. You think that you are just kicking an empty can only to find it full of hornets!

 

[prichard]

I don't know about others but to clarify my view and only from seeing that short clip they are both at fault.

Let's not confuse anyone's reaction to this video with what may or may not be our attitude when on the road.

There are actual rules of the road, codified in our laws. And then there are the unwritten rules, one of which is he who has the most metal wins. When riding we must, as someone earlier wrote, assume everyone out there is trying to kill us. I never tailgated on a bike and if tailgated on a bike or in a car I slow down and give myself a lot more space/time to react to anything that happens ahead. I do not wish to be rear ended regardless of who is at fault.

When I share the road with a bike I do whatever I can to look out for him. If behind him I'll stay well back, if in front I always keep an eye on him. If I see another car about to do something stupid, like I think he's going to turn between me and the bike where there really is no room I alter me speed to allow room or slow to make it obvious there is not room. As far as my experience goes, cars turning in front of bikes is the number 1 cause of motorcycle accidents that are not caused by the rider.

I cannot comprehend the lack of safe riding I see by many bikers. Tailgating, staying in someone's blind spot, generally lack of awareness. I rode long before I new of any kind of rider safety courses. Turned out I was doing most of what was taught naturally. Then there are the sport bike riders that think one wheel is a good thing at 80mph or weaving in and out of traffic, splitting lanes etc. Those I just hope for their safety and hope that I don't come across the scene of the accident up the road. I watched a young lady die once from one of those yahoos who took off from a red light as fast as possible on one wheel and hit her as a pedestrian. They at least prosecuted him for manslaughter, but that doesn't bring that girl back.

The reality is there are horrible drivers and horrible riders. Some days it's all one can do to protect himself on the road. I really think the vast majority of driving issues these days are distraction. Whether cell phones or whatever. Road rage is inexcusable but I also think it is a very minor cause of issues on the road. Technology is making driving worse rather than better. Watch the commercials for cars these days - you don't have to pay attention to driving the car will do it for you.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I sadly knew a handful of young women that were either crippled or killed outright as passengers of some stupid kid. Of course their judgment or lack thereof also played no small part in their fate.

Car commercials have bugged me for years. You can't be having fun in your car unless speeding or drifting to a stop. And then they say in small print, professional driver, closed course. Buy a 4x4 p/u, maybe $60, 000, find some rough ground and just put the pedal to the metal! I ran into a tree last week with my HEAVY DUTY 2500 GMC at LESS then walking speed and probably did $5000.00 damage!

Cadilac had some stupid ad years ago,saying the only driving accessory you needed was a running shoe!

 

[hawkeye08]

Tailgators used to upset me, but now I simply slow down, first to speed limit if I'm going faster, then a bit more.

I was on my way home from town one night when a tailgator with brights on attached to me. Plenty of safe passing available, but he stayed right there. I slowed until I was stopped and the guy was still right on me. No way I was going home until this idiot went away. I waited for a couple minutes, then started up slowly. Obviously no traffic around, had not determined what the vehicle was due to bright lights, planned on going right past my place if the guy was still following, but he finally turned around. I was dialing 911 when he turned around.

I do still get upset when someone passes me when I am towing the travel trailer and then slows down. I like to have safe following distance and it was a constant battle until we decided we are in no hurry. The actual speed limit for towing travel trailers in Washington state is lower than cars, so just drive near that limit, no one wants to stay behind me and very few slow down in front of me.

Bicycles are worse than motorcycles, they want to do their own thing, often riding dangerously.

 

[Rustyiron]

Did everybody watch too many 1960's era Outlaw Bikers movies ?

That's what I find interesting (and alarming) about these responses I'm hearing - scale of consequence doesn't really register - even amongst former riders. Coming into riding season here soon, this has provided me with a really important mental reset.


I stay away from other vehicles, even when on 4 wheels. As a few have posted, crowded roads can mean that if you are on a bike/bicycle you may have to bang on the side of a vehicle crowding into your lane. This thread has me reconsidering my interest in touring the USA on 2 wheels.

Rgds, D.

I've had very few "irritations" with bikers and give them a wide berth as I would like while riding.
The few bikers I've had any issues with were the "crotch rocket" riders that appear to have a death wish, driving insanely fast for the road and conditions. Come on down on your bike :thumbsup:

 

[houstonscott]

My bet is he deserved it....

 

[LouNY]

On the original video both the driver and the rider where complete idiots and should lose their licenses.
I ride and have ridden for many years, I used to average almost 20,000 miles a year.
I have ridden baggers for the last 25-30 from as small as a 550 4 Honda with fairing and bags, it was to small.
The Suzuki triple water cooled was nice and 750 Hondas dressed out Then the Yamaha Ventures now a Harley Ultra Limited,
my mileage has dropped the last couple of years, I'm down to 5-10,000.
Tailgaters have always irritated me, and now days I tend to slow down for them. I try to always ride and drive courteously, sometimes I fail.
I do believe that the current crotch rocket riders with there wheelies in traffic are the worst offenders and I have heard that in some cities there are dirt bike riders causing troubles.

I have also certainly expressed my opinions verbally and with gestures at times.

 

[Jstpssng]

On the original video both the driver and the rider where complete idiots and should lose their licenses.
I ride and have ridden for many years, I used to average almost 20,000 miles a year.
I have ridden baggers for the last 25-30 from as small as a 550 4 Honda with fairing and bags, it was to small.
The Suzuki triple water cooled was nice and 750 Hondas dressed out Then the Yamaha Ventures now a Harley Ultra Limited,
my mileage has dropped the last couple of years, I'm down to 5-10,000.
Tailgaters have always irritated me, and now days I tend to slow down for them. I try to always ride and drive courteously, sometimes I fail.
I do believe that the current crotch rocket riders with there wheelies in traffic are the worst offenders and I have heard that in some cities there are dirt bike riders causing troubles.

I have also certainly expressed my opinions verbally and with gestures at times.

The guys running Harleys with straight pipes can be pretty obnoxious, also. I know the old adage about loud pipes; but don't t buy that for a minute. One thing I've noticed lately is that bike speeds seem to fluctuate wildly; in a mile stretch they might go from 45 to 60, then back to 50. That makes it hard to maintain a steady distance behind; especially when they're riding in a group. If I can't either get by them or find a speed that works I sometimes pull over for a few minutes and hope that they get ahead.

 

[LouNY]

The guys running Harleys with straight pipes can be pretty obnoxious, also. I know the old adage about loud pipes; but don't t buy that for a minute. One thing I've noticed lately is that bike speeds seem to fluctuate wildly; in a mile stretch they might go from 45 to 60, then back to 50. That makes it hard to maintain a steady distance behind; especially when they're riding in a group. If I can't either get by them or find a speed that works I sometimes pull over for a few minutes and hope that they get ahead.

Yes, I must be in a minority my pipes are pure stock I have thought about removing the cat converter loud pipes do not save lives, they just pi** people off :drink: one only.
Yes it seems like some groups have trouble keeping it up, I ride with the Patriot Guard at times they seem to do a decent job of keeping things going smooth.

 

[3930dave]

I sadly knew a handful of young women that were either crippled or killed outright as passengers of some stupid kid. Of course their judgment or lack thereof also played no small part in their fate.

Car commercials have bugged me for years. You can't be having fun in your car unless speeding or drifting to a stop. And then they say in small print, professional driver, closed course. Buy a 4x4 p/u, maybe $60, 000, find some rough ground and just put the pedal to the metal! I ran into a tree last week with my HEAVY DUTY 2500 GMC at LESS then walking speed and probably did $5000.00 damage!

Cadilac had some stupid ad years ago,saying the only driving accessory you needed was a running shoe!

Most irritating commercial I've seen lately is Nissan's. CUV zooming through a construction site at high speed - do people actually need more encouragement to treat the roads like a video game ?

As some unfortunate examples just in this thread show, you can injure or kill someone else with a MC too. You'd think the Darwinian aspect of motorcycle riding would convince most sane riders to ride defensively, but unfortunately, that's not the case.

People have taken the time to post very thoughtful comments in this thread - great points about space-cushions, situational awareness, etc...... Even those of us who actively work at driving (whatever) defensively can have a bad moment/day - not fully concentrating, not having enough sleep, driving with a cold/headache. Distracted by ____________ even briefly can be all it takes.

Let's all be safe out there.

Rgds, D.

 

[aczlan]

A motorcycle on your bumper with the headlight beam bouncing off your rear view is kind of unnerving.

And when the rider behind you is one of those brilliant souls who thinks that they need to have a flasher to go between the high and low beam on their headlight in the daytime it's beyond annoying.
I get it if you are the first one in line or you're riding by yourself. But if you're following another car why would you need such an annoying "feature" on your bike?

Aaron Z

 

[Garandman]

Deputies arrest alleged driver in Sarasota road rage incident

Sarasota Sheriff Tom Knight said the 'most concerning' aspect of the incident is that Medrano-Bonilla is an undocumented immigrant from El Salvador who entered the country illegally in 2014.

 

[flyerdan]

I'd suspect that the pulsing light might be a feature that can't be turned off on some models, like the daytime running lights.
I know around here, and it's probably not unique as we don't rate that high in the massive flange % for bad drivers, but if you leave an adequate following distance someone will cut in front of you. And of course they're going so fast they have to brake to keep from hitting the car that you were safely following, making you look like the tailgater.

 

[Garandman]

And when the rider behind you is one of those brilliant souls who thinks that they need to have a flasher to go between the high and low beam on their headlight in the daytime it's beyond annoying.
I get it if you are the first one in line or you're riding by yourself. But if you're following another car why would you need such an annoying "feature" on your bike?

Aaron Z

First of all, they don’t, they modulate the intensity of the low beam from 30-100%. They don’t work with high beam or at night.

Riders use them because they work. Over half of multi-vehicle motorcycle accidents are left-turners who failed to notice the bike.

They’re legal by federal law.

FMVSS 108

(Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) (49 CFR Part 571.108 S7.9.4) allows motorcycle headlight modulation systems all 50 states provided they comply with the standards set forth in this section.

You could always just pull your pickup over and let the motorcycle by. You’d both be happier.

 

[Garandman]

I can't say that I have ever had a Biker annoy me on the roads. If anything, once or twice I didn't see them and may have pulled out in front of them. Probably just hidden by the front pillar.

Its called “looming” and experienced road motorcyclists now taken action to avoid it. It’s so common that in the UK they call it SMIDSY, for “Sorry, Mate, I Didn’t See You.”

 

[goeduck]

Bicycles are worse than motorcycles, they want to do their own thing, often riding dangerously.

You got that right. In Seattle bicyclists are out of control and pay NO attention to traffic laws they are obligated to adhere to. Cops do not care so it just gets worse.

It is much better in Kitsap County except on Bainbridge.