Driverless Cars

/ Driverless Cars #82  
Yeah. I guess you'd have to "train" the voice recognition system to understand the slurred words (Hint: "home" is easier to say, drunk, than is "7354 Excelsior Lane")
 
/ Driverless Cars #83  
No one wants them, not going to happen, what a waist of time.
 
/ Driverless Cars
  • Thread Starter
#84  
So if the operator needs to remain vigilant and be able to take over at an instant, what is the purpose of a "driverless" car in the first place?

If you think about it..... what the end-user really needs is the exact opposite...... expert systems that can take over when the human isn't able, for whatever reason.......

"Sucks to Be You" announcement from a computer doesn't help much, when the brown-stuff is about to hit the fan.....

Rgds, D.
 
/ Driverless Cars #85  
If you think about it..... what the end-user really needs is the exact opposite...... expert systems that can take over when the human isn't able, for whatever reason.......

"Sucks to Be You" announcement from a computer doesn't help much, when the brown-stuff is about to hit the fan.....

Rgds, D.

Exactly. The very thought of an expert system that drives during normal times and then bails on you JUST when things get rough is not liable to be successful. These designers may know a lot about robots but they know next to nothing about people.
 
/ Driverless Cars #86  
If you think about it..... what the end-user really needs is the exact opposite...... expert systems that can take over when the human isn't able, for whatever reason.......

"Sucks to Be You" announcement from a computer doesn't help much, when the brown-stuff is about to hit the fan.....

Rgds, D.

I think remote piloting is the answer. You know how a bunch of guys in trailers in a parking lot in Las Vegas are running our drone air war in the Middle East? Imagine a call center where all they do all day long is take over the piloting of driverless cars when the on-board controls can't figure out the situation. If it can be driven by a computer it can be driven over the network. Plus the guy in the call center would have the advantage of all of the onboard sensors.

Obviously that won't work for crash avoidance. Thinking of the fatalities so far, the system needs to be more cautious, more inclined to switch to manual when it encounters a situation it doesn't understand. Imagine a system where it's on automatic 95% of the time. One guy in the call center could cover an average of 20 vehicles. That's still a tremendous labor savings over one driver per vehicle. The trickiest 5% of driving is going to include a lot of routine stuff for a human, things like left turns across traffic. The safest 95% is pretty achievable for a computer.
 
/ Driverless Cars #87  
Big Equipment, Powerful Diesels, What Could Go Wrong..... :cool:

....... Go Wrong.........

Wide open fields.... not much to hit. Gated community, relatively low speed and complexity. Not bad places to start.

Rgds, D.

The question won't be are the 100% safe... it will be are they safer than a human. Humans are notoriously fickle. It won't take much to make a machine which can top our concentration.

The real trick will be getting a 'critical mass' of interconnected cars. When there are enough cars all talking to one another, letting each other know what they are doing, most issues will subsequently resolve. I foresee a specific 'town/county/area' going totally automated, which will remove the human error. When it works, and I believe it will work well, it will become more and more widely adopted.

I spend a lot of time behind the wheel, and for me, I welcome total automation. I foresee me hopping in the pod-mobile, punching in the destination, being whisked away into a 'stream' of other automated cars so close as to be drafting off each other. All are talking to each other, so all cars 'behind' knows what the leaders are seeing. "object to the left of road" "Pothole 3' from left edge" "debris in road" etc. every car within 1/2m is talking to one another and so nothing is a surprise. At THAT POINT, true automated travel can occur.

But the test will not and should not be perfection... it should be 'better than human'.
 
/ Driverless Cars
  • Thread Starter
#88  
I think remote piloting is the answer. You know how a bunch of guys in trailers in a parking lot in Las Vegas are running our drone air war in the Middle East? Imagine a call center where all they do all day long is take over the piloting of driverless cars when the on-board controls can't figure out the situation. If it can be driven by a computer it can be driven over the network. Plus the guy in the call center would have the advantage of all of the onboard sensors.

Obviously that won't work for crash avoidance. Thinking of the fatalities so far, the system needs to be more cautious, more inclined to switch to manual when it encounters a situation it doesn't understand. Imagine a system where it's on automatic 95% of the time. One guy in the call center could cover an average of 20 vehicles. That's still a tremendous labor savings over one driver per vehicle. The trickiest 5% of driving is going to include a lot of routine stuff for a human, things like left turns across traffic. The safest 95% is pretty achievable for a computer.

Interesting. ONStar on Steroids.

The technology is easy, not sure the rest of the recipe will line up...... Military is motivated to use the technology largely for cost reasons - pilots are expensive to train, expensive to replace, and there are political costs associated with loss of life in combat.

Civilians on roads..... well, bluntly put, we're cheap to replace. On a personal level, I don't agree with that last sentence but I do recognize the reality.

Rgds, D.
 
/ Driverless Cars
  • Thread Starter
#89  
But the test will not and should not be perfection... it should be 'better than human'.

Realizing how low the bar is actually set, I decided to pay more attention to what is emerging in this field.... it's probably going to change faster than we think.

Jump forward even 25 years, few people will pay much attention to fully automated transport - it will just Be There. How many people today think about how their fuel injectors in their cars work, or how GPS functions ? <- those are There Now.

The interim transition will be bumpy - tech issues need to be sorted out and well proven, but probably the bigger and longer battles will be fought in court - Who is Liable, and most importantly, Who Pays ?

The insurance industry became wealthy taking small amounts of money from large groups of people - this model may end up disrupted and/or broken. Even govts have a tough time getting money out of large corporations......

Rgds, D.
 
/ Driverless Cars #90  
If you think about it..... what the end-user really needs is the exact opposite...... expert systems that can take over when the human isn't able, for whatever reason.......

"Sucks to Be You" announcement from a computer doesn't help much, when the brown-stuff is about to hit the fan.....

Rgds, D.

This is already occurring with LIDAR assisted automatic braking. It will happen, but there needs to be a standard onto which ALL vehicles are based.
 
/ Driverless Cars #91  
"Sucks to be you!" "Recalculating!" "Good-by!".

Thing you never want to hear while riding in your driver-less car. :)

In all honesty I think they will happen and probably sooner than we think. A lot of things to sort out, but people are working on doing just that.
 
/ Driverless Cars #92  
One thing which will be CRITICAL, is for a worldwide standard 'language' with which the computers/cars converse.

When Obamacare was in the works, I sent 27 letters on various topics about glaring problems with the law. ONE was the mandated change to EMR (Electronic Medical Record). Every 'company' wanted their own proprietary way of doing it, so, Ocare idiotically did not require a standard. The GOAL of EMR was the quick sharing and retrieval of patient information to expedite care. But, government being government, implementation went as follows...

All companies produce some version of Electronic Medical Records.
Each company has their own 'language' form in which the data is coded. So, a GE system data is in GE form, but Seimens is in 'its' own form, and the two systems, while both being electronic, cannot share information. So the entire 'goal' of EMR was a disaster simply because at the onset, they didn't set a standard language upon which to build.

Multiply that by the number of auto manufacturers, and you can see the potential problem. I don't care what the cars do 'inside' but when the car in front of mine says there is an idiot pushing along the street to my left... I want my car to understand the language and know that the idiot with the bike is not a planter in the median.

This 'intercar' interaction will be critical and the 'fix' for most problems. For instance, in AZ, 10 cars are going down that road. The first car notes pedestrian 50ft to left of road moving 'East', 2nd car notes same pedestrian at 45ft, etc etc. Then car 8 sees the person move into the street, but still well away from the traffic lane, Car 9 recognizes the direction of travel of the pedestrian as it whiz's safely by, and Car 10 knows there is a pedestrian moving into the traffic lane and can brake accordingly.

As it was, you had to rely on the car's own sensors to do it all. Certainly, they will be required to 'see' and avoid... but it will be the interconnectivity which really makes things work well. It will almost completely resolve traffic, because a 14ft vehicle will merge into a 30ft spacing provided by the interaction, at 50mph. Cars will move into the appropriate lane based upon traffic ahead and destination. No more last minute changes across 4 lanes to get the Exit.

Also... I want Automated cars here by the time I am too old to drive. I don't want to be 'home bound' while I still have the ability to move about.
 
/ Driverless Cars #93  
"Sucks to be you!" "Recalculating!" "Good-by!".

Thing you never want to hear while riding in your driver-less car. :)

In all honesty I think they will happen and probably sooner than we think. A lot of things to sort out, but people are working on doing just that.



^^^ That is my take to, and every time that a major accident happens a whole lot of people will be putting a whole lot of thought into how to prevent it from Ever happening again.

I do believe the tech will eventually advance to the point that it is safe (enough) but it will be years not months.
 
/ Driverless Cars #94  
No one wants them, not going to happen, what a waist of time.

Some of the biggest benefactors will be senior citizens who no longer drive.
 
/ Driverless Cars #95  
I just want to be able to hit cruise and take a nap on long interstate routes. I get sleepy easily anymore on boring drives. How about a far left lane that is only automated cars then car can wake you up a couple miles before the exit. If you don't wake up it keeps going for safety and maybe at some point https it the break down lane.
 
/ Driverless Cars #96  
Some of the biggest benefactors will be senior citizens who no longer drive.

That's the hype, I'm guessing the reality will be different. How long before people over a certain age will be required to turn in their licenses and be forced to use one of these?
Ironically, those who might need these the most, those in rural areas are the ones least likely to ever see it. Navigating back roads in an area where GPS is less than accurate will be much harder to implement than in suburbia. Likewise the number of these vehicles...I'm assuming the plan is to curtail personal ownership and force people into what are essentially automated taxis. Again, viable in a densely populated area, not so much out in the sticks.

How about a far left lane that is only automated cars then car can wake you up a couple miles before the exit. If you don't wake up it keeps going for safety and maybe at some point https it the break down lane.

I'm seeing that as being the most likely scenario, at least in most of our lifetimes. Dedicated driverless car lanes, possibly limited access (ie-no residential driveways, crosswalks, etc.). Maybe decades away once they become mandatory all streets will be open to them.
 
/ Driverless Cars #97  
I live on a tiny, unpaved heritage road. It is funny to see gigantic motor homes cruising down our road in the summer because somebody's GPS thought it would be a great shortcut. Even funnier is winter, then the road isn't plowed past our house, but GPS still tries to send people through. The mapping needs to be improved as much as the guidance software.
 
/ Driverless Cars #98  
I stopped somewhere along I16 in the Dublin, GA area. Looked for food on GPS, found something and set as destination. I'm still convinced I drove through someone's farm road. :laughing:
 
/ Driverless Cars #99  
We were going to meet a client, 250 miles away. The guy who was in charge was following his GPS. We were 25 miles away and I knew that we were in trouble when it told us to leave the highway. While the road kept getting worse it took me awhile to convince them that we needed to go back to the highway and take the long way around. The route the GPS was showing is an old RR bed, which I walked with my grandfather way back in nineteen sixty something. Our destination was a Navy training base, so I knew that it hadn't been upgraded.
 
/ Driverless Cars #100  
It certainly will take some time to sort out, but during testing, it would be nice if the drivers actually paid attention, even more so than if they were driving a regular car. The whole idea is to improve the technology but have some safeguards.
 

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