Timber Frame Build - Round 2

[civilian]

If there is no movement on the cantilevered walls, it works great. I forget where, but it was suggested that you double up your house wrap under the Hardie. I use half inch Hardie on the walls, over the house wrap and OSB. Then I seal the Hardie edges with Redgard to make it water proof. Some people paint the entire face of the Hardie, but I like the idea of the thinset going directly onto the Hardie and not a layer of Redgard. But from what I'm reading in some of the home building trade magazines that I get, house wrap and tape is being replaced with specialty water proofing membranes like Redgard and applied to the entire exterior sheeting instead of house wrap. Kind of like what Zip System is, but you apply it yourself. They say you get a better seal this way then anything else out there.

Thinset is stronger and sticks better then brick mortar. It's more money, but not that much more. Ardex is the very best brand of thinset, but the regular grey stuff at Home Depot is still my favorite for most things. Use a half inch by half inch notched trowel and work your way up.

Eddie, Hate to rob the OP's page but.... Can I do that same thinset and fake veneer stone over blue board insulation on the outside poured concrete walls? Instead of leaving the concrete exposed and having to insulate the inside of the walk out basement. Thanks, Jon

 

[EddieWalker]

Eddie, Hate to rob the OP's page but.... Can I do that same thinset and fake veneer stone over blue board insulation on the outside poured concrete walls? Instead of leaving the concrete exposed and having to insulate the inside of the walk out basement. Thanks, Jon

Sorry, I have no experience with blueboard. Schlutter is a popular product made of plastic and foam that doesn't have any real strength to it, but relies on the thinset and tile to provide the strength. There are other plastic, Fiberglas sand Styrofoam products out there that are popular too. For decades, sheetrock was used in showers in millions of homes. Some never leaked and are still in use today. If I was you, I would go to a tile supply house and ask them what to use. There are also some very impressive thinset mixtures out there that can do some amazing things. They cost jumps for them, but when it's done, you never have to worry about it. Avoid a carpet type flooring store. Find one that people in the tile trade go to.

 

[s219]

Be interested to see the stone work. I think the lathe and scratchcoat is more of a pain than sticking up the actual stone (which is slow but easy and relaxing work).

One thing I learned putting up stone veneer is to mix the mortar looser than usual, more like oatmeal than peanut butter. I'd dampen the scratchcoat with water from a hand bottle, put a nice head of mortar on the stone, press the stone in place with a light wiggle, hold it with my finger for about 10 seconds, and then move on to the next stone. The suction of the looser mortar is enough to hold the stone in place and those 10 seconds begin the bonding process. It defies logic but it works so much better than using a thick mortar.

I also worked from the top down, to avoid getting any mess on stones below. People tend to work from the bottom up like they are laying brick, but with veneer you can work from the top down (and if the stones are not staying put and sliding or moving, it means you're doing it wrong).

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Be interested to see the stone work. I think the lathe and scratchcoat is more of a pain than sticking up the actual stone (which is slow but easy and relaxing work).

One thing I learned putting up stone veneer is to mix the mortar looser than usual, more like oatmeal than peanut butter. I'd dampen the scratchcoat with water from a hand bottle, put a nice head of mortar on the stone, press the stone in place with a light wiggle, hold it with my finger for about 10 seconds, and then move on to the next stone. The suction of the looser mortar is enough to hold the stone in place and those 10 seconds begin the bonding process. It defies logic but it works so much better than using a thick mortar.

I also worked from the top down, to avoid getting any mess on stones below. People tend to work from the bottom up like they are laying brick, but with veneer you can work from the top down (and if the stones are not staying put and sliding or moving, it means you're doing it wrong).

Always wanted to try sticking fake stone, never got up the nerve to try.
Got a block wall in basement i want to cover.

 

[jk96]

Always wanted to try sticking fake stone, never got up the nerve to try.
Got a block wall in basement i want to cover.

Never know until you try. It's actually not hard, just time consuming. Until I did the columns for the wedding area I had never done it. As S219 mentioned the key is in the correct moisture content. I'm using real stone so its heavy but if you get the mortar mix right it will stick instantly, you don't even need to hold for more than a second or two.

Stayed up late last night and got the bar covered. A couple little spots I don't really like where too many stones lined up in a straight line but not unhappy enough to pull any back off. I'm planning to head back down later tonight to start running mortar joints.

2018-03-10_04-17-39

 

[dragoneggs]

Never know until you try. It's actually not hard, just time consuming. Until I did the columns for the wedding area I had never done it. As S219 mentioned the key is in the correct moisture content. I'm using real stone so its heavy but if you get the mortar mix right it will stick instantly, you don't even need to hold for more than a second or two.

Stayed up late last night and got the bar covered. A couple little spots I don't really like where too many stones lined up in a straight line but not unhappy enough to pull any back off. I'm planning to head back down later tonight to start running mortar joints.

2018-03-10_04-17-39

Looks fantastic... don't obsess over the seams. Only you think you see flaws! :drink:

 

[s219]

Never know until you try. It's actually not hard, just time consuming. Until I did the columns for the wedding area I had never done it. As S219 mentioned the key is in the correct moisture content. I'm using real stone so its heavy but if you get the mortar mix right it will stick instantly, you don't even need to hold for more than a second or two.

Stayed up late last night and got the bar covered. A couple little spots I don't really like where too many stones lined up in a straight line but not unhappy enough to pull any back off. I'm planning to head back down later tonight to start running mortar joints.

2018-03-10_04-17-39

That looks AWESOME! I sure don't see any lines/joints/spacings that would bother me. The first time I put up stone, I was worried I wouldn't be able to make it look random enough, but it wasn't nearly as hard as I thought. It's supposed to look rustic, which gives a lot of freedom (unlike brickwork where you need things to line up). Random with a few surprises thrown in is a good way to think about it.

Great job, and good choice of stone. Looks amazing!

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Looks fine to me also.

 

[EddieWalker]

Installing the rock is the fun part. Doing the grout isn't.

 

[jk96]

Installing the rock is the fun part. Doing the grout isn't.

I agree. Finished that part last night.

2018-03-11_12-13-55

 

[EddieWalker]

Perfection!!!

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Very nice.

Do you use a cement mix? Can it be stuck to a block wall as is?

 

[jk96]

Very nice.

Do you use a cement mix? Can it be stuck to a block wall as is?

Type S mortar mix. If regular concrete block you can if its clean and unpainted.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Type S mortar mix. If regular concrete block you can if its clean and unpainted.

Thanks, got a bare block wall in basement to experiment on.

 

[jk96]

Thanks, got a bare block wall in basement to experiment on.

You can also add a bonding agent to your mortar mix to help. I haven't found the need to, just a straight type S mortar. The correct moisture content is key. Too dry and it wont stick, too wet and the stone is going to slide.

Got some help this evening to set the bar top. I'm looking forward to getting my pendent lights installed and some epoxy on the bar top to finish it off.

2018-03-11_08-27-35

 

[buckeyefarmer]

That is so nice... Wow.

 

[jk96]

That is so nice... Wow.

Thanks Buckeye. Also S19 mentioned it, a very slight wiggle of the stone as you press it seems to help. You can kind of feel it set then just let go. Good luck with the project.

 

[dragoneggs]

Nice slab JK... how are you going to finish it?

 

[jk96]

Nice slab JK... how are you going to finish it?

Probably with a 2 part epoxy. I've gone back and forth between epoxy and several coats of marine poly. If it were my home bar I would do marine poly but for commercial use the epoxy will add some protection. Especially with how soft redwood is.

 

[civilian]

Probably with a 2 part epoxy. I've gone back and forth between epoxy and several coats of marine poly. If it were my home bar I would do marine poly but for commercial use the epoxy will add some protection. Especially with how soft redwood is.

I built my dinning room table top from 1 3/4" #2 knotty pine. I was in the same boat as to the finish. I wanted to be able to put a sweaty glass on the top and not worry about water rings on the table. I decided on 4 coats of marine exterior varnish. I figured if varnished boats could withstand being out all summer in the rain/elements, it would work for a table top. I don't remember if there was a first coat or if I reduced the first coat. Top looks great after 3-4 years. But being a true oil based varnish, it is ambering. ie deepening/darkening the color. Poly will keep the wood's more natural color. Jon