1st time tractor buyer

[Tomhanx]

First post here, but I've been browsing for weeks, and doing online research. I've only been to 2 dealers so far...I'm not in any hurry to purchase, and there's lots of snow and ice on the ground here, so the dealers' yards are all a mess to walk around right now.

My needs:
We have 120 acres, over half of which is wooded. The whole property is a hillside, ranging from the creek at the bottom of the valley, all the way to the ridge of the hill. There are some steep banks, but the majority is a fairly gentle slope. We mow approx 5 acres (currently with an old craftsman riding mower that doesn't have long left). Have a 500 foot driveway that's in rough shape and needs some work, plus plowing in the winters. There's 2 springs on the property, and lots of drainage ditches, none of which have been cleaned out in years, so there's a lot of work to do there. We've also paid a guy to brush hog about 8 acres the last 2 summers.
So... TLB, belly mower, snow blade, brush hog are on the list (the brush hog could wait til later if I need to for budget reasons).

I've mostly been looking at the sub-compact size tractors. GC1720, BX23s, 1025r, MT125. I went to the Kubota dealer, and they didn't have the bx23s on the lot, but they had a 25d, which is fairly similar. Also went to the Massey Ferguson dealer, and sat on a GC 1720. I think the Kubota had a little more room, and the steering wheel on the Kubota was definitely in a more comfortable position, but the Massey Ferguson price is thousands less. Having not looked anywhere else yet, the GC1720 is my front runner atm.

My only real concern at this point, is the size. I think the gc1720 would probably do most of the work I need, but I'm a little nervous about the small tire size. The land here is very uneven, lots of areas that can be swampy when the springs are flowing water outside the ditches. There's lots of deep ruts from years ago when the property was logged with a skidder. There's trees and limbs all over the ground in the wooded areas, that the smaller wheels wouldn't get over. The Massey dealer showed me a 1526 as well, but by the time you add the backhoe and other implements, it pushes it well beyond my budget.

Anyone have any other suggestions to go look at? Something that's maybe a little bit bigger than the sub compacts (or at least has bigger wheels), and would be <25k out the door?

 

[Tractorable]

Jeff will chime in with his new tractor advice, but I'll say right off the bat that a sub compact is going to be way too small for a 120 acre property.

First, list out the tasks you need to perform, which implements you'll need to accomplish the tasks,determine the weight and horsepower required to power the implements, buy tractor accordingly.

Lots of knowledge here. Stay tuned and we'll help you through making a good choice.

 

[teg]

Have you looked for used? I think you need a bit larger than the ones you looked at.

Something like this: 30 horse tractor - heavy equipment - by owner - sale

 

[oosik]

Welcome to TBN and the forum. I completely agree with tractorable. I would suggest that you START your search with tractors of at least 45 to 50 hp. You are going to find that property of that size will need the additional hp simply to get jobs completed. You will be totally surprised how many additional jobs will require doing - once you get to working on your property.

 

[nybirdman]

I agree;go bigger and purchase a dedicated lawn mower.You will be disappointed in "off lawn" performance of the sub-compacts.

 

[jeff9366]

Jeff will chime in with INCREASINGLY POLISHED new tractor advice, but I'll say right off the bat that a sub compact is going to be way too small for a 120 acre property.

First, list out the tasks you need to perform, which implements you'll need to accomplish the tasks,determine the weight and horsepower required to power the implements, buy tractor accordingly.

The best way to shop for tractors is to list your tasks first, then determine how much bare tractor weight you need to SAFELY accomplish your tasks. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites.

For most tasks greater tractor chassis weight is more important than tractor horsepower. This tractor fundamental is difficult for people new to tractors to comprehend.

Heavier tractors have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements. Greater mass of heavy-chassis tractors increases tractor stability when transporting loads in the FEL bucket, the most rollover prone of routine tractor tasks. Heavier tractors have larger wheels and tires better able to bridge holes, ruts and downed tree limbs, yielding a smoother, less disturbing passage over rough ground.

Safe hillside operation demands more tractor weight than flat land operation. Heavier tractors have wider wheel spreads making them less laterally unstable. Rear wheel spreads can be decreased or increased.

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

Tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight are offered in one configuration. Most, such as the high volume kubota standard L series, are sparely equipped to hit competitive price points. Others, such as the Yanmar YT235 and Kubota B2650/B3350 series, include enhanced productivity and comfort components.

Most tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight are operated in residential applications on one to five fairly flat acres. These "residential tractors" fit in a typical garage.

Tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are generally offered in a utilitarian configuration and a deluxe configuration, on a common chassis. Deluxe kit enhances productivity and operating comfort ~~~ but you have to pay. Many tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are too tall to fit in a typical garage, even with ROPS folded.

It takes a 50% increase in tractor weight before you notice a significant tractor capability increase. It takes a 100% increase in tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling light implements in order to buy heavier, wider, implements for a heavier tractor you take a hit in depreciation. Passing time with multiple browsers is a pain. ((Ask me how I know.))

A quality dealer, reasonably close, is a priority for me; less so for others, well experienced with tractors, who do their own maintenance. For most new to tractors a quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important. My kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment.

Horsepower is a primary consideration only operating PTO powered implements.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.​

 

[jeff9366]

We have 120 acres, over half wooded.

The whole property is a hillside, ranging from the creek at the bottom of the valley, all the way to the ridge of the hill. There are some steep banks, but the majority is a fairly gentle slope.

The land here is very uneven. Lots of deep ruts from years ago when the property was logged with a skidder.

Substantial areas that can be swampy when the springs are flowing water outside the ditches. There's 2 springs on the property, and lots of drainage ditches, none of which have been cleaned out in years.

We mow approx 5 acres (currently with an old craftsman riding mower that doesn't have long left). We've also paid a guy to brush hog about 8 acres the last 2 summers.

Have a 500 foot driveway that needs work, plus plowing in winter.

My only real concern at this point, is the size. I'm a little nervous about small tire size. There's trees and limbs all over the ground in the wooded areas, that small wheels wouldn't get over.

Anyone have any other suggestions to go look at? Something that's maybe a little bit bigger than the sub compacts (or at least has bigger wheels), and would be <25k out the door?

You should make a decision to rent a tracked mini-excavator once a year. Tracked mini-excavators have a long reach and can swivel 360 degrees. From your description you will not be able to move spoil an effective distance and it seems certain you will bog a wheeled tractor attempting to work portions of your property.
VIDEOS (3): mini excavator long reach - YouTube
mini excavators at work - YouTube
small tractor bogged in mud - YouTube

Is less than 50 to 55 acres arable and reasonably flat? Will your 50 to 55 arable acres be used as a business? Leased for crops, share cropped, farmed, logged, hunting lease(s), firewood sales? Depreciation can take the sting out of acquisition costs. (Need to know how much land needs most tractor hours.)

You need a tractor with at least 3,500 pounds bare tractor weight. You really need 4,000 pounds bare tractor weight.

Your current projection is ignorance as bliss.




There's two springs on the property, and lots of drainage ditches, none of which have been cleaned in years.
SEE PHOTOS.

 

[Tomhanx]

One thing I forgot to mention in my post, is that I currently have a very small, 1 car garage. I have my old riding mower in there now, plus a workbench and some storage. That's part of the reason I was looking at the sub compact size. Also, knowing that the riding mower is old and wore out, is why I was looking for something with belly mower capability.

I'd seen that New Holland on craigslist and Facebook, I just wasn't thinking I needed somethign that big. Only after seeing the sub compacts in person have I started to change my mind. Another used one I saw (but has been taken down since then), was a Yanmar 434...which I kind of liked...from the pictures it looked to be not much bigger than the sub compacts, but had MUCH larger wheels. I will definitely keep doing more research, including reading more old posts on here, and make another trip to some dealers and look at some larger machines.

 

[Tomhanx]

You should make a decision to rent a tracked mini-excavator once a year. Tracked mini-excavators have a long reach and can swivel 360 degrees. From your description you will not be able to move spoil an effective distance and it seems certain you will bog your wheeled tractor attempting to work portions of your property.
VIDEO: mini excavator long reach - YouTube
small tractor bogged in mud - YouTube

Will your 50 to 55 arable acres be used as a business? Leased for crops, share cropped, farmed, logged, hunting lease(s), firewood sales?

I rented a mini trackhoe when I first moved here a couple years ago. I kept it for a week, and got a bunch of stuff done, my biggest issue with that machine, was that it takes so long to travel long distances across the property with it. It really cut down on the amount of time I had to actually get work done with it.

The property won't be used for any business. No crops are grown, except for a small vegetable garden. I did cut some firewood last year, and would like to do more in the future, but it was logged 6 or 7 years ago, so there's not many big trees left, mostly stuff that's 12-18" diameter. I don't hunt, but had some family and friends hunt here this past season, and they had a good year, so they'll probably be back next year.

 

[jeff9366]

Here is a $26,000, 3,500 pound bare tractor Kubota 'Grand L' 25 miles from Binghamton. L3540 is the Grand L predecessor model to my L3560. Previously owned Grand Ls sell quickly.

Kubota L3540 loader/backhoe | eBay

More on L3540 from T-B-N archive:
Kubota L3540 site:tractorbynet.com - Google Search



There are 91 other tractors for sale near Zip Code 13901:
-garden in Industrial Tractors | eBay


caveat emptor
ˌkavēˌät ˈem(p)ˌtôr noun
the principle that the buyer alone is responsible for checking the quality and suitability of goods before a purchase is made.

 

[newbury]

One thing I forgot to mention in my post, is that I currently have a very small, 1 car garage. I have my old riding mower in there now, plus a workbench and some storage. That's part of the reason I was looking at the sub compact size. Also, knowing that the riding mower is old and wore out, is why I was looking for something with belly mower capability.
<snip>

With any decent tractor you are eventually going to want a barn, but many tractors have lived under tarps for years. On a larger tractor you might want a rear finish mower. But unless lawn mowing is going to be the prime use on your 120 acres (congratulations by the way) you shouldn't size your tractor for your smallest, easiest task.

$25K out the door is about what I've spent on my B7610 (23HP), my M4700 (50HP), my trailer and some implements.


2007 B7610, 245 hrs, LA352 FEL, Bush Hog SBX 48 box blade, '07 Hudson HSE Deluxe - 5 Ton 18' foot dovetail trailer for w/ 2 chains and load binders $11.5K from CL in 2009


M4700, 1400 hrs, LA1001 FEL $11.5K from auction Jan 2013

I rented a mini trackhoe when I first moved here a couple years ago. I kept it for a week, and got a bunch of stuff done, my biggest issue with that machine, was that it takes so long to travel long distances across the property with it. It really cut down on the amount of time I had to actually get work done with it.

The property won't be used for any business. No crops are grown, except for a small vegetable garden. I did cut some firewood last year, and would like to do more in the future, but it was logged 6 or 7 years ago, so there's not many big trees left, mostly stuff that's 12-18" diameter. I don't hunt, but had some family and friends hunt here this past season, and they had a good year, so they'll probably be back next year.

So are you planning on building trails? A backhoe may run from $5K up, a used mini-ex under $15K. But as you write the tracked mini-ex doesn't move fast.

For getting through the woods pay attention to CLEARANCE, the SCUTs are close to the ground. My B7610 is close to the ground, but at about 8".

My M4700

is good for the woods.

 

[jeff9366]

I rented a mini trackhoe when I first moved here a couple years ago. I kept it for a week, and got a bunch of stuff done, my biggest issue with that machine, was that it takes so long to travel long distances across the property with it. It really cut down on the amount of time I had to actually get work done with it.

TRACTOR BACKHOE LIMITATIONS: tractor backhoe limitations - Google Search


Is less than 50 to 55 acres arable and reasonably flat?
(Need to know how much land needs most tractor hours.)

What is your plan for arable portion of your property?

 

[Tomhanx]

Thanks Jeff. I honestly never considered ebay. I haven't used it in years, and never even thought about it for a tractor, I'll have a look at those listings later. There's probably about 30 acres that I would call arable AND reasonably flat. (not completely flat, but no more than 10% grade probably), Everything else would be steeper. The steepest half of the property is where most of the woods are.

And I apologize for my ignorance. I grew up on this property, but we never had equipment growing up. Mom used to lease out portions of it for various things (used to be a corn field for a farmer down the road, and another area where he pasture'd some of his cows), when I was a kid, that guy would always come and do any needed work with his equipment. But, that farm closed down years ago, and mom let much of the property go without any kind of maintenance. I inherited it 2 yrs ago, and now that I've got the house in better shape, it's time to tackle the land. I AM a pretty handy guy, electrician by trade, and I know how to run a full size backhoe, and trackhoe...but mostly just trenching experience on them. I was so set on one of the sub compacts, because they advertise them like they can do all the things I want to do....maybe they can on flat land, idk.

I'll start reading more on here about some bigger models, (and check pricing and look at used listings), and I'm sure I'll have more questions later when I find something. Do you think the 1526 that the Massey dealer suggested is also too small?


No real plans yet, other than getting things cleared. There's a ton of multi flora rose and small crabapple trees on the section that is closest to flat. I know blueberries grow very well around here, I'd like to get some of those growing.

 

[Tomhanx]

With any decent tractor you are eventually going to want a barn, but many tractors have lived under tarps for years. On a larger tractor you might want a rear finish mower. But unless lawn mowing is going to be the prime use on your 120 acres (congratulations by the way) you shouldn't size your tractor for your smallest, easiest task.

$25K out the door is about what I've spent on my B7610 (23HP), my M4700 (50HP), my trailer and some implements.





So are you planning on building trails? A backhoe may run from $5K up, a used mini-ex under $15K. But as you write the tracked mini-ex doesn't move fast.

For getting through the woods pay attention to CLEARANCE, the SCUTs are close to the ground. My B7610 is close to the ground, but at about 8".

The one in your first picture looks closer to the sub compact size (too small), but to my inexperienced eyes, the 2nd one looks too big. I definitely have more research to do, ty.

 

[jeff9366]

There's probably about 30 acres that I would call arable AND reasonably flat. (not completely flat, but no more than 10% grade probably)

Do you think the 1526 that the Massey dealer suggested is also too small?

There is about 30 acres I would call arable AND reasonably flat.

More "nitty gritty". I suggest you copy this into Post #1, otherwise respondents will recommend 5,000 - 6,000 pound bare tractors.

You need a tractor with at least 3,500 pounds bare tractor weight. Buy once, cry once, then drive it till it croaks.

I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs.


Massey Ferguson 1526

2011 - 2018 1500 Series
Model years
Compact Utility tractor

Manufacturer: Massey Ferguson
Original price (USD)
$15,968 (2017 )

Massey Ferguson 1526 Engine:
Iseki 1.5L 3-cyl diesel

Capacity:
Fuel: 7.1 gal [26.9 L]

3-Point Hitch:
Rear Type: I
Control: position control
Rear lift (at ends): 1322 lbs [599 kg]
Rear lift (at 24"/610mm): 992 lbs [449 kg]

Power Take-off (PTO):
Rear PTO: independent
Clutch: electro-hydraulic
Rear RPM: 540
Mid PTO: independent
Mid RPM: 2000

Dimensions
Wheelbase: 61.4 inches [155 cm]
Weight: 1873 lbs [849 kg]
Wheelbase: 61.4 inches [155 cm]
Length: 111 inches [281 cm]
Width: 49.2 inches [124 cm]
Height (ROPS): 95.5 inches [242 cm]
Ground clearance: 11 inches

Massey Ferguson 1526 attachments:
mowing deck
front-end loader

Massey Ferguson 1526 Power:
Engine (gross): 24.8 hp [18.5 kW]
PTO (claimed): 20.1 hp [15.0 kW]

Mechanical:
Chassis: 4x4 MFWD 4WD
Differential lock: mechanical rear
Steering: power
Brakes: wet disc
Cab: Two-post foldable ROPS.

Transmission:
Type: hydrostatic
Gears: infinite (3-range) forward and reverse

Hydraulics:
Type: open center
SCV flow: 5.5 gpm [20.8 lpm]
Total flow: 8.7 gpm [32.9 lpm]
Steering flow: 3.2 gpm [12.1 lpm]

 

[RalphVa]

For any woody situation, I would recommend staying away from any tractor with underbelly hydraulic cooling fans like the Kubota BX series. I've had brush remove lots of things on my tractors and even had a dipstick removed from a Gravely engine.

For what you're looking at, I like the Kubota B2301 or JD 2025R. I'm not familiar with other makes. Think one of the makes use Isuzu engines. The Isuzu on our diesel generator is the smoothest diesel I've ever heard aside from a VW TDI. Don't know anything about the tractors made with them.

Ralph

 

[jeff9366]

I rented a mini trackhoe when I first moved here a couple years ago. I kept it for a week, and got a bunch of stuff done, my biggest issue with that machine, was that it takes so long to travel long distances across the property. It really cut down on the amount of time I had to actually get work done with it.

Hydrostatic transmissions (HST) are selected by 85%+ of new compact tractor buyers.

Most light tractors have two range (2) HST transmissions.

Over 3,000 pound tractors have three range (3) HST transmissions.

With your large property, mostly sloped, you will find a two-range (2) HST equipped tractor takes a long time to travel across the property.

 

[teg]

...Do you think the 1526 that the Massey dealer suggested is also too small?...

I think that Massey would be on the smallest size that I would get. What do they have in the 25-30 hp range? If you have not sat on a Kubota L2501, I would recommend that as a great first tractor, not too big and heavy. You can still move it with a 1/2 ton pickup truck. Anything larger and you'll need 3/4 ton to a one ton truck to move it. Big is not always better, in the woods, small and nimble wins in my books.

 

[newbury]

<snip>
And I apologize for my ignorance. I grew up on this property, but we never had equipment growing up. Mom used to lease out portions of it for various things (used to be a corn field for a farmer down the road, and another area where he pasture'd some of his cows), when I was a kid, that guy would always come and do any needed work with his equipment. But, that farm closed down years ago, and mom let much of the property go without any kind of maintenance. I inherited it 2 yrs ago, and now that I've got the house in better shape, it's time to tackle the land. I AM a pretty handy guy, electrician by trade, and I know how to run a full size backhoe, and trackhoe...but mostly just trenching experience on them. I was so set on one of the sub compacts, because they advertise them like they can do all the things I want to do....maybe they can on flat land, idk.

I'll start reading more on here about some bigger models, (and check pricing and look at used listings), and I'm sure I'll have more questions later when I find something. Do you think the 1526 that the Massey dealer suggested is also too small?


No real plans yet, other than getting things cleared. There's a ton of multi flora rose and small crabapple trees on the section that is closest to flat. I know blueberries grow very well around here, I'd like to get some of those growing.

Tractor size and "class" (Sub-compact, compact, utility, ag) are subjective terms. Per Kubota's prior products website a subcompact is a BX of 18 to 25 HP, a compact is a B or L from 17.5 to 62 HP, an economy utility is an MX from 49.3 to 61.4, a Utility is from 57.9 to 133 HP.



The big difference, to me, on the SC's are the small front wheels. The Massey 1526 looks small, like my B7610.

But with MOST tasks my B7610 will do everything my M4700 will do if I have the appropriately sized equipment. It just takes more time.

I can bushhog w/ a 48" bushhog on the B7610, or a 72" on the M4700
I can move dirt, stones etc. with either, just a lot smaller bites with the B7610.
I can lift firewood w/ the 3pt on the B7610, but my M4700 will lift 3 times more weight.
I CAN'T lift a 10' 14" oak log with my B7610, I can with the M4700.

For getting things cleared you might get by with a heavy duty bushhog, but they need more HP to pull. The Massey might be a bit too small.

 

[jeff9366]

No real plans, other than getting things cleared. There's a ton of multi flora rose and small crabapple trees on the section that is closest to flat. I know blueberries grow very well around here, I'd like to get some of those growing.

Here is the implement you need for removing subterran climbing rose corms in volume:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/339095-dirt-dog-all-purpose-plow.html?highlight=

Ratchet Rake will pull lacerating climbing rose and other vines from the trees:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/375397-ratchet-rake-today.html?highlight=


I volunteered in a small, organic, Southern Rabbiteye Blueberry field for years.