Smart battery chargers with reconditioning modes

[sixdogs]

GaleHawkins--another great thing of newer sealed and AGM batteries is no acid leak in the front of the tractor where the battery is. Many tractors have been rusted up because their cheap OEM batteries leaked.

I was going to buy a battery tender but decided to buy a second NOCO charger since they desulphate and also double as a battery tender. If a batter is kept at full charge, I don't think I need a tender when I can smart charge.

 

[Garandman]

How many use the included leads to make a semi-permanent installation for easy charger hook up.

My nephew has a buggy and motor cycle... the battery for the motor cycle is kind of buried... he used the lead and it makes hooking up a snap.

I use them on the tractor, motorcycles, and snowmobiles. Going to use the lead on the tractor for a heated jacket as well.

Most snowmobiles have the Battery well buried, but have cables that run out to a convenient location for jumping or charging.

Also have a Clore JNC660 jump box, and Antigravity LiFe packs that are small and light but don稚 work in extreme cold.

 

[oosik]

I've got pig tails on the tractor, motorcycle and second vehicle. Ha,ha - I bought a fancy heated vest for use on the motorcycle. I found that even with the heated vest - I don't like riding when its that cold. Doesn't take long to figure out - you are the only stupid thing out there in the cold.

So - now I use that vest when using the tractor in the winter. Pig tail works fine and I'm toasty.

 

[the old grind]

Something I looked for to step up from my ~.5a home-brew desulphater was any acknowledgement of the mechanism or proof from beyond the 'brochure'. My DVM says ~27 (peak?) when it's on a battery, but I have to monitor voltage by the hour, and I limit cycles to 4-6 hrs/day vs continuous 'weeks' as suggested by the guys who use the <1a light bulb/diode setup. (Crude stuff compared to any 'smart' charger.)

We're told that to 'desulphate' requires a full volt or more above what's otherwise considered dangerously high, perhaps percolating the acid if the charging rate is high as well. (amps vs tenths?) Interesting which familiar brands/models did or didn't fare well when the charts and spreadsheets told their tales.

Anyway, lead lengths vary so that some makes have the power plug on the box and some near the clamps. But, at least three brands use the same polarized QDs for the pigtails, so I bought an extra handful of Schumakers for the dozen batteries I rotate the 3 'reconditioners' between.

Don't forget, that some of these will go through a 'timed' desulphating stage somewhere on the way to the 'float/maintain' stage of the cycle. Be aware that reconnecting restarts the full cycle but is more of a good thing than any kind of setback. With the typical <2a charging capacity of these 'smart' guys, the 'D' stage won't have time to completely recover a clunker. 'Do-overs', oh yes!

I've got my best results in recovery by taking days, restarting, and allowing fluids and charges plenty of time to stabilize.

 

[ArlyA]

Schumacher chargers automatically go into desulphation mode after the battery is full.

 

[sixdogs]

Schumacher chargers automatically go into desulphation mode after the battery is full.

Anyone know if Genius chargers do?

 

[def38]

I leave a Schumacher smart charger on the tractor 24/7 and cover it up if outdoors. The motorcycle battery on the BMW is a 10 year old Odyssey PC680 AGM. It is on a dedicated charger 24/7. Never fails to start regardless of temperatures.

Motorhome batteries (6 of them) are on two Schumacher smart chargers. These aforementioned batteries are all years old and still like-new hot.

Schumacher smart chargers can be left connected indefinitely without concern.

 

[3930dave]

Something I looked for to step up from my ~.5a home-brew desulphater was any acknowledgement of the mechanism or proof from beyond the 'brochure'. My DVM says ~27 (peak?) when it's on a battery, but I have to monitor voltage by the hour, and I limit cycles to 4-6 hrs/day vs continuous 'weeks' as suggested by the guys who use the <1a light bulb/diode setup. (Crude stuff compared to any 'smart' charger.)

We're told that to 'desulphate' requires a full volt or more above what's otherwise considered dangerously high, perhaps percolating the acid if the charging rate is high as well. (amps vs tenths?) Interesting which familiar brands/models did or didn't fare well when the charts and spreadsheets told their tales.

Anyway, lead lengths vary so that some makes have the power plug on the box and some near the clamps. But, at least three brands use the same polarized QDs for the pigtails, so I bought an extra handful of Schumakers for the dozen batteries I rotate the 3 'reconditioners' between.

Don't forget, that some of these will go through a 'timed' desulphating stage somewhere on the way to the 'float/maintain' stage of the cycle. Be aware that reconnecting restarts the full cycle but is more of a good thing than any kind of setback. With the typical <2a charging capacity of these 'smart' guys, the 'D' stage won't have time to completely recover a clunker. 'Do-overs', oh yes!

I've got my best results in recovery by taking days, restarting, and allowing fluids and charges plenty of time to stabilize.

Olde School was Float vs. Equalize charge. High voltage was used to boil the battery acid in the hopes that action would physically displace the sulphate build up. Can be problematic, and definitely needs close attention to the process and fluid levels.

VDC was the first modern one I got my hands on. PbSO4 (sulphate) is a crystal, and as such, has a natural resonant frequency. Being patented, VDC used to publish the frequency they used (Mhz range, just can't remember the #) as a related frequency to the base resonant one. To contrast, I'd say this approach is more like ultrasonic cleaning, than sandblasting with ball bearings. Less dangerous than boiling acid, and needs much less monitoring.

Rgds, D.

 

[the old grind]

OT, briefly:
With NiCad batteries we can give brief jolts of over-voltages (charts for the #s) to shock crystals from anodes, and NiCad chargers do that at the beginning of a cycle. (You can prove it FYI)

We are to understand that with voltage spikes or pulses* we are reversing sulfate accumulation, but wait until what the following and comments therein tries to fit what you've seen with your own eyes. It's like we're tricking ourselves or something. *'over-voltage spikes'

Sulfation and How to Prevent it - Battery University

I don't buy into bigfoot, aliens, ghosts, or that Jesus had to waltz across a river to prove who He was, but I swear the stuff I bought works to some extent. btw, I AM scrounging for the convincing lab rat stuff that I read when vetting/choosing a brand. (Aaaaack!!) :laughing:

 

[John_Mc]

VDC's BatteryMinder brand chargers and maintainers are some of the best I've found. Since the ideal charging and float voltage of batteries varies with the temperature of that battery, current models are all temperature compensated. (Northern Tool is still hawking one of the discontinued BatteryMinder products that is not temperature compensated). They have full time desulphation (not just "after the battery is fully charged"), and the desulphation is done with high frequency, rather than high voltage. All of their chargers can be left connected indefinitely with no danger of overcharging the battery or boiling off the electrolyte.

They also make chargers that have selectable charging profiles to match Gel, flooded or sealed lead acid, and AGM batteries (many chargers just ignore the difference, resulting in slightly lower life from the battery than if they had been charged wit thte ideal profile).

 

[buickanddeere]

Once a battery is ruined , no whiz bang wonder charger will restore it to like new capacity

 

[rbstern]

Once a battery is ruined , no whiz bang wonder charger will restore it to like new capacity

But, as many of us have discovered, these whiz bang wonder chargers can often take a "ruined" battery and give that battery the ability to provide years worth of additional, useful service. That's more than good enough. In fact, it's great. I paid about $40 for my whiz bang wonder charger, and it's already let me avoid buying about $120 worth of new batteries. Will I have still have to buy them eventually? Of course. Batteries are consumables. But I'd rather get six or seven years out of a battery than three or four.

 

[def38]

Once a battery is ruined , no whiz bang wonder charger will restore it to like new capacity

I have recovered batteries that have sat discharged for several years using my Schumacher battery charger. The battery that spins my M-F 231 diesel engine was doornail dead when I bought the tractor used. Now, I have jump started other engines with that same battery that is maintained with my Schumacher charger. The battery may not have like new capacity but it sure works fine when jumping off the JD 455G loader.

I agree, if an internal buss bar is broken or damaged (rare), a charger won't help.

 

[sixdogs]

Once a battery is ruined , no whiz bang wonder charger will restore it to like new capacity

There is a difference between "ruined" and ruined. You are correct that a dead short ruined is indeed ruined. But many of what used to be considered ruined can now be recovered by these smart chargers and I have seen it multiple times. In the olden days of 25 years ago this was not possible but today it is. Things change and products and technologies change.

 

[daugen]

Both of the batteries I use to run my DC diesel tank pump are old tractor batteries that I was able to keep using in a less demanding situation plus they were regularly put on battery-minder smart chargers, and darn, they don't seem to give up. I'm a great believer in the desulphate mode; at least once a year I run every battery(other than cars and trucks) through a full cycle of the charger, whether they need it or not.

One thing I thought was interesting, and I screwed up for awhile before I realized what I was doing, but the default charge mode on my smart charger is GEL. I have to keep pushing the button to get it to flooded. Maintenance free does NOT mean gel...took me a while to figure that out.
Important to get the voltage right.

 

[the old grind]

IIRC 'maintenance free' means lead-calcium that appeared from Delco in the '70s vs lead-antimony used previously. Not sure which one gels use, but something about their floating/maintenance voltage is different. I suppose that you'd either boil out or never top up at the wrong setting.

One thing that confuzzles me is charging cycle 'stages', varied sequence of them between brands, and whether or not 'desulphate' is in fact part of the maintain stage at the end of a cycle. For example. I thought that my BatMinder 1510s were 5-stage, but company info says 7 stages, with desulphate 2nd or 3rd in the 'cycle'.

This much operating detail isn't always obvious when you shop. I'd like to find that Accumate includes 'regen' in the final stage vs my reconnect intervals without knowing.

The US patent office has dozens of registrants whose different approaches decry all others. There could be some snake oil among the smarties we assume will always bail our bacon. A tidbit I stumbled upon is that 'Pulse Technology' long ago apparently patented the process of hi-freq vs high voltage spikes.

Pulse Tech's advertising and approach pitch are different than some, but I did glean the following from Q&A's at "Impact Battery":

PulseTech uses only frequency based pulsing so its voltage never rises into ranges that will create excess heat thus it does not require any compensating. Pulsetech pulses 100% of the time while the Battery Minders pulse around 25-40% of the time.
PulseTech uses only frequency based pulsing so its voltage never rises into ranges that will create excess heat thus it does not require any compensating. Pulsetech pulses 100% of the time while the Battery Minders pulse around 25-40% of the time.

Battery MINDer is a great brand and gets our seal of approval, however we prefer the PulseTech units due mainly to the fact that they desulfate 100% of the time.

Amazon says my "PulseTech 12V Xtreme Charge Battery Charger XC100-P" will arrive Wednesday. I've included my signature in this post (oops) but it doesn't mention as many batteries as I have (2 ea cars, trucks). The Dixon, Mechron, & Ford are the least used, so will get the most attention. Also, both white trucks have dual batteries.

 

[John_Mc]

One thing I thought was interesting, and I screwed up for awhile before I realized what I was doing, but the default charge mode on my smart charger is GEL. I have to keep pushing the button to get it to flooded. Maintenance free does NOT mean gel...took me a while to figure that out.
Important to get the voltage right.

Gel batteries preferred charge and float voltages are lower (by about 1/2 volt, if I recall) than those for flooded or sealed lead-acid batteries. Gel batteries are rather sensitive to these voltages, and getting them wrong can shorten their life.

Most AGM batteries like to be charged at slightly higher voltages than flooded lead acid batteries. (One exception is the Optima AGM batteries, which charge at the same voltages as the flooded lead acid batteries).

My older Battery Minder charger that had Gel, flooded, and AGM modes always defaulted to GEL, so it would reset to that mode every time the power flickered. I guess they figured that was the safest - less chance of boiling off electrolyte or overheating the battery if the voltage was too low, rather than too high. They tell me their new ones will remember the last setting if the power goes out.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

But, as many of us have discovered, these whiz bang wonder chargers can often take a "ruined" battery and give that battery the ability to provide years worth of additional, useful service. That's more than good enough. In fact, it's great. I paid about $40 for my whiz bang wonder charger, and it's already let me avoid buying about $120 worth of new batteries. Will I have still have to buy them eventually? Of course. Batteries are consumables. But I'd rather get six or seven years out of a battery than three or four.

Batteries start out in whatever they were specced for, and then, when weaker, they wind up in my boats. On the other hand, one OEM rotorcraft battery outlasted the car itself thanks to my Optimate battery chargers.

 

[daugen]

I'm honestly surprised batteries don't come with safety stickers saying "charge on GEL setting only" or whatever is correct.
AGM batteries seem to announce what they are, but how to tell the difference between gel and flooded? I'm now defaulting to flooded because I have no idea what battery is flooded and what is gel. How does one tell? Sure makes a big difference in charging and could have a sizeable impact on battery life.

a strange little battery story:
Next to my home is a broken down farm with a broken down farmer and broken down equipment. I try to help him when I can but it's overwhelming; half a gallon of hootch a day will do that sadly. So...I go over and find his Super A hooked up to an old fashioned charger, one of those big drag along jump starter things and the water is just bubbling out of the top. He had no idea whatsoever that would ruin his battery, just thought that's what it took to charge one. Worse, his alternator wasn't charging, so even if I gave him a new battery it would run down, and he would wreck it on that charger. Figure the absolute opposite of how we carefully try to charge batteries. And yeah, his tractor hasn't moved an inch. First you get a new alternator, then a decent battery. He thinks he can keep buying cheap batteries and charging them when needed.
No....

 

[JRobyn]

My FIL believes that he can connect his $5 Harbor Freight trickle charger to his TOTALLY dead tractor or UTV battery and it will charge it right up!