4025 broken bh subframe

[e5wd6114]

That's a crappy design then. Leaving the wheels on the ground is creating an unstable enviroment. Never understood the desire for these little units. Use them much at all something always breaks or they dry rot in a field

Hope they stand up for their product or I wouldn't spend another sent with Mahindra

Brett

You cannot compare construction grade backhoes to tractor attachments. When you try to operate a tractor attached backhoe like a construction backhoe you over stress the frame and hardware, reduce your digging depth, and actually make it unstable as the outrigger feet get too close together(narrower footprint). To compare the properties of a backhoe attached to a tractor to a 310 JD or Case 580 is completely asinine.

 

[rustyshakelford]

You cannot compare construction grade backhoes to tractor attachments. When you try to operate a tractor attached backhoe like a construction backhoe you over stress the frame and hardware, reduce your digging depth, and actually make it unstable as the outrigger feet get too close together(narrower footprint). To compare the properties of a backhoe attached to a tractor to a 310 JD or Case 580 is completely asinine.

They are unstable when they outriggers aren't supporting the weight. This is true with anything that utilizes outriggers. The only time a tire should be touching the ground is to help prevent the vehicle or machine from rolling due to the brakes being locked or in drive. It doesn't have to be way up in the air but the bulge in the tires should atleast be gone. This is from years and years of experience operating machinery and vehicles with outriggers and also going to many classes about the correct use of outriggers.

Brett

 

[e5wd6114]

They are unstable when they outriggers aren't supporting the weight. This is true with anything that utilizes outriggers. The only time a tire should be touching the ground is to help prevent the vehicle or machine from rolling due to the brakes being locked or in drive. It doesn't have to be way up in the air but the bulge in the tires should atleast be gone. This is from years and years of experience operating machinery and vehicles with outriggers and also going to many classes about the correct use of outriggers.

Brett

Again, comparing construction equipment to tractor attachments is apples and oranges. If you don't want to believe me then ask Bradco, Paladin, KMW, or Woods themselves...they will tell you EXACTLY what I've have said. The outriggers want to be on the ground firmly but the tires should also remain on the ground as the outriggers will remain at a wider stance enhancing stability while not decreasing your digging depth.

 

[rustyshakelford]

Again, comparing construction equipment to tractor attachments is apples and oranges. If you don't want to believe me then ask Bradco, Paladin, KMW, or Woods themselves...they will tell you EXACTLY what I've have said. The outriggers want to be on the ground firmly but the tires should also remain on the ground as the outriggers will remain at a wider stance enhancing stability while not decreasing your digging depth.

I don't give two cents about digging depth which seems to be what you keep focusing on. The most stable platform you can have is when the tires are off the ground or the bulge is taken out. Yes you loose some depth but if that two inches is the difference between working and not working you need to get a different tool that's right for the job. I focus on safety and stability and am not a fan of these units because they have shortcomings and don't excel at any particular thing. However, they are must haves for some and with that I'm sharing when they are the most stable. No they aren't the same as a full size backhoe but operationally they are very similar

Brett

 

[e5wd6114]

I don't give two cents about digging depth which seems to be what you keep focusing on. The most stable platform you can have is when the tires are off the ground or the bulge is taken out. Yes you loose some depth but if that two inches is the difference between working and not working you need to get a different tool that's right for the job. I focus on safety and stability and am not a fan of these units because they have shortcomings and don't excel at any particular thing. However, they are must haves for some and with that I'm sharing when they are the most stable. No they aren't the same as a full size backhoe but operationally they are very similar

Brett

I'm not concentrating on digging depth, just pointing out that there are other reasons. The main point is that with such short and narrow stabilizers your method is more unstable and you keep attempting to apply the same thought process of larger units to these tractor attachments. So please STOP giving bad information to novice tractor operators that is going to result in possible injury to them and damage to their tractors.

 

[rustyshakelford]

I'm not concentrating on digging depth, just pointing out that there are other reasons. The main point is that with such short and narrow stabilizers your method is more unstable and you keep attempting to apply the same thought process of larger units to these tractor attachments. So please STOP giving bad information to novice tractor operators that is going to result in possible injury to them and damage to their tractors. View attachment 528442

You're being dramatic. Taking the bulge out of the tires is hardly like the image on the right you showed. Read the caption. It says to take the weight off the wheels. I have never said To raise it way off the ground. Get the bulge out of the tires or just barely lift off the ground for maximum stability. If you don't, your risking the wheels actually bearing more weight than you think which leads to an unstable platform because the outriggers which are designed to hold the weight aren't. I've never had someone argue over something so trivial. I would venture to guess most people don't out enough on the outriggers and that's why they have such a wild ride.

Take the bulge out of the tire or where you can slide a piece of paper under it is all that he needed.

Brett

 

[e5wd6114]

You're being dramatic. Taking the bulge out of the tires is hardly like the image on the right you showed. Read the caption. It says to take the weight off the wheels. I have never said To raise it way off the ground. Get the bulge out of the tires or just barely lift off the ground for maximum stability. If you don't, your risking the wheels actually bearing more weight than you think which leads to an unstable platform because the outriggers which are designed to hold the weight aren't. I've never had someone argue over something so trivial. I would venture to guess most people don't out enough on the outriggers and that's why they have such a wild ride.

Take the bulge out of the tire or where you can slide a piece of paper under it is all that he needed.

Brett

And right after it says to take the weight off the wheels it states that wheel MUST remain in contact with the ground. It's not trivial when the tractor rolls over or the brackets snap pinning the operator between the backhoe and the tractor. I wouldn't argue if there weren't cases of those scenarios actually happening.

 

[tkevan]

You're being dramatic. Taking the bulge out of the tires is hardly like the image on the right you showed. Read the caption. It says to take the weight off the wheels. I have never said To raise it way off the ground. Get the bulge out of the tires or just barely lift off the ground for maximum stability. If you don't, your risking the wheels actually bearing more weight than you think which leads to an unstable platform because the outriggers which are designed to hold the weight aren't. I've never had someone argue over something so trivial. I would venture to guess most people don't out enough on the outriggers and that's why they have such a wild ride.

Take the bulge out of the tire or where you can slide a piece of paper under it is all that he needed.

Brett

That's a Bradco unit on his tractor.

Directly from the Bradco manual..
.."Once the unit is positioned, lower the stabilizers to the ground. The tires should still
be supporting most of the vehicle weight with the stabilizers relieving only part of the weight,
and mainly acting to give the unit a wider base for increased stability and to keep the unit from
moving or bouncing with backhoe use."

Or are you saying you know more than the Manufacturer?

 

[jb1390]

You're being dramatic. Taking the bulge out of the tires is hardly like the image on the right you showed. Read the caption. It says to take the weight off the wheels. I have never said To raise it way off the ground. Get the bulge out of the tires or just barely lift off the ground for maximum stability. If you don't, your risking the wheels actually bearing more weight than you think which leads to an unstable platform because the outriggers which are designed to hold the weight aren't. I've never had someone argue over something so trivial. I would venture to guess most people don't out enough on the outriggers and that's why they have such a wild ride.

Take the bulge out of the tire or where you can slide a piece of paper under it is all that he needed.

Brett

Those instructions were clearly written by a lawyer. A couple things to keep in mind when reading those instructions.....first, the manufacturer will always say to operate as conservatively as possible to help them avoid excessive warranty claims. Second, often times these backhoes are designed by a third party for use across multiple platforms. They are attachments, and can be exposed to a wide array of operating conditions. Picking the back of the machine up on a 3 point hitch backhoe, for example, might not be recommended. A subframe should be significantly more capable.

Bringing the wheels off the ground will not significantly change the digging depth or stability.....nor will it increase stress in the area that the OP frame was broken. If anything, lifting the tires would reduce stress in that area when applying force under a tree root or stump.

I pick up the back of my machine all the time. Often times that's required to get the back end level if it's not on a perfectly flat surface. If it breaks, I'll weld it back together and make it stronger. I bought my equipment to use, and I will use it to its capability. Every once in a while that means I need to improve a weak area in the original design.

As I said earlier - if this was my backhoe I'd weld that back together, reinforce it so that it doesn't happen again, and go back to using it without overthinking things.

 

[rustyshakelford]

That's a Bradco unit on his tractor.

Directly from the Bradco manual..
.."Once the unit is positioned, lower the stabilizers to the ground. The tires should still
be supporting most of the vehicle weight with the stabilizers relieving only part of the weight,
and mainly acting to give the unit a wider base for increased stability and to keep the unit from
moving or bouncing with backhoe use."

Or are you saying you know more than the Manufacturer?

Your cars owners manual also says to obey all local and state laws. Do you ever speed or not use your turn signal in the distance frame required by law? Your tractor states to always have the rops up and seatbelt on. Can you honestly say you’ve done that 100% of the time? Are you smarter than the engineer or lawyer?

If you have ever been around heavy equipment or anything that uses outrigger you’d know what gives the most stability. If you use the manual as gospel than good luck. I was giving real life advice on operating equipment. Most on here have very little true experience or this is their first piece of equipment.

This subject has been beat to death and I’m exhausted going back and forth. If you don’t understand what I’m saying you will never get it. This isn’t rocket science or really a complex issue. It’s common sense which obviously isn’t as common as it once was.

Good luck

Those instructions were clearly written by a lawyer. A couple things to keep in mind when reading those instructions.....first, the manufacturer will always say to operate as conservatively as possible to help them avoid excessive warranty claims. Second, often times these backhoes are designed by a third party for use across multiple platforms. They are attachments, and can be exposed to a wide array of operating conditions. Picking the back of the machine up on a 3 point hitch backhoe, for example, might not be recommended. A subframe should be significantly more capable.

Bringing the wheels off the ground will not significantly change the digging depth or stability.....nor will it increase stress in the area that the OP frame was broken. If anything, lifting the tires would reduce stress in that area when applying force under a tree root or stump.

I pick up the back of my machine all the time. Often times that's required to get the back end level if it's not on a perfectly flat surface. If it breaks, I'll weld it back together and make it stronger. I bought my equipment to use, and I will use it to its capability. Every once in a while that means I need to improve a weak area in the original design.

As I said earlier - if this was my backhoe I'd weld that back together, reinforce it so that it doesn't happen again, and go back to using it without overthinking things.

Great points. Manufactures seem to be leaving guys in the wind when they aren’t abusing these at all. As much as they charge for them they should be getting excellent service

Brett

 

[fried1765]

Those instructions were clearly written by a lawyer. A couple things to keep in mind when reading those instructions.....first, the manufacturer will always say to operate as conservatively as possible to help them avoid excessive warranty claims. Second, often times these backhoes are designed by a third party for use across multiple platforms. They are attachments, and can be exposed to a wide array of operating conditions. Picking the back of the machine up on a 3 point hitch backhoe, for example, might not be recommended. A subframe should be significantly more capable.

Bringing the wheels off the ground will not significantly change the digging depth or stability.....nor will it increase stress in the area that the OP frame was broken. If anything, lifting the tires would reduce stress in that area when applying force under a tree root or stump.

I pick up the back of my machine all the time. Often times that's required to get the back end level if it's not on a perfectly flat surface. If it breaks, I'll weld it back together and make it stronger. I bought my equipment to use, and I will use it to its capability. Every once in a while that means I need to improve a weak area in the original design.

As I said earlier - if this was my backhoe I'd weld that back together, reinforce it so that it doesn't happen again, and go back to using it without overthinking things.

Sure am glad I took the Ford dealer's advice 31 years ago!
He said: Don't buy a very small, or an aftermarket hoe.
"I'll find you a small factory assembled industrial unit".
Wow! Excellent advice! I waited & waited!
Took nearly 2 years, but he found a small, used, 1350 hr. (16 yrs. old then) Ford industrial TLB with 10' hoe.
I run that hoe with wheels always well off the ground. It is strong as an ox, and I can use the hoe to drag/push the machine wherever I want. I do not use my TLB more than about 15 hours annually. Factory subframe allows for quick disconnect", but I have only had the hoe off only once in 31 years. Tractor does have 3 pt. hitch & PTO also.
Just did a complete refurbishment on the entire machine this year.
It is currently asleep in my barn, while am away for the winter, enjoying outdoor warmth & sunshine.
Now "Cat" yellow, machine looks like new! Would post pictures, but TBN picture posting is too complex for me.

 

[e5wd6114]

Your cars owners manual also says to obey all local and state laws. Do you ever speed or not use your turn signal in the distance frame required by law? Your tractor states to always have the rops up and seatbelt on. Can you honestly say you致e done that 100% of the time? Are you smarter than the engineer or lawyer?

If you have ever been around heavy equipment or anything that uses outrigger you壇 know what gives the most stability. If you use the manual as gospel than good luck. I was giving real life advice on operating equipment. Most on here have very little true experience or this is their first piece of equipment.

This subject has been beat to death and I知 exhausted going back and forth. If you don稚 understand what I知 saying you will never get it. This isn稚 rocket science or really a complex issue. It痴 common sense which obviously isn稚 as common as it once was.

Good luck



Great points. Manufactures seem to be leaving guys in the wind when they aren稚 abusing these at all. As much as they charge for them they should be getting excellent service

Brett

So recommending that people operate their machines outside of the parameters set by the manufacturer in writing on this forum now opens up the possibility that if someone damages their unit or injures themselves while following YOUR advice that they may attempt to pursue YOU legally. Arguing against the manufacturer's operation instructions is never a good idea, regardless of what you THINK, the parameters set are done so for very good reason...usually after accidents where blood is spilled and lengthy court battles ensue. To continue to argue your point is just not a very smart position to take.

 

[jb1390]

So recommending that people operate their machines outside of the parameters set by the manufacturer in writing on this forum now opens up the possibility that if someone damages their unit or injures themselves while following YOUR advice that they may attempt to pursue YOU legally. Arguing against the manufacturer's operation instructions is never a good idea, regardless of what you THINK, the parameters set are done so for very good reason...usually after accidents where blood is spilled and lengthy court battles ensue. To continue to argue your point is just not a very smart position to take.

:soapbox:

 

[rustyshakelford]

So recommending that people operate their machines outside of the parameters set by the manufacturer in writing on this forum now opens up the possibility that if someone damages their unit or injures themselves while following YOUR advice that they may attempt to pursue YOU legally. Arguing against the manufacturer's operation instructions is never a good idea, regardless of what you THINK, the parameters set are done so for very good reason...usually after accidents where blood is spilled and lengthy court battles ensue. To continue to argue your point is just not a very smart position to take.

There’s so many things I want to call you or say to you but I’ll just let the people on this forum read the posts and create an informed opinion on what advice to listen. About the nicest thing I can say is “Bless your heart”

I guess it adds up that you’re from MA for the things you have typed that make zero sense and your thought to point immediately to a litigious response. I’m actually laughing out loud at how ludicrous this is

Brett

 

[Rock Crawler]

He is "one of them". I saw that early on in the conversation. Trust me, most of us read his comments and see it/him for what it is. Your all good, Rusty.

 

[e5wd6114]

He is "one of them". I saw that early on in the conversation. Trust me, most of us read his comments and see it/him for what it is. Your all good, Rusty.

LOL....I'm definitely NOT one of them, but having been involved in accident investigation to defend against law suits in industrial mishaps I KNOW what gets used against you by THEM. Always CYA! But if you have a problem with me pointing out that spouting off improper information in writing on a public forum can be twisted into a liability situation then apparently you would rather "be right" than "be smart"

 

[e5wd6114]

He is "one of them". I saw that early on in the conversation. Trust me, most of us read his comments and see it/him for what it is. Your all good, Rusty.

LOL....I'm definitely NOT one of them, but having been involved in accident investigation to defend against law suits in industrial mishaps I KNOW what gets used against you by THEM. Always CYA! But if you have a problem with me pointing out that spouting off improper information in writing on a public forum can be twisted into a liability situation then apparently you would rather "be right" than "be smart"

 

[fried1765]

There’s so many things I want to call you or say to you but I’ll just let the people on this forum read the posts and create an informed opinion on what advice to listen. About the nicest thing I can say is “Bless your heart”

I guess it adds up that you’re from MA for the things you have typed that make zero sense and your thought to point immediately to a litigious response. I’m actually laughing out loud at how ludicrous this is

Brett

Just take a moment to think about it:...."Pocahontas" is from MA also !!!!

 

[e5wd6114]

There’s so many things I want to call you or say to you but I’ll just let the people on this forum read the posts and create an informed opinion on what advice to listen. About the nicest thing I can say is “Bless your heart”

I guess it adds up that you’re from MA for the things you have typed that make zero sense and your thought to point immediately to a litigious response. I’m actually laughing out loud at how ludicrous this is

Brett

Call me whatever you want and judge me by my location how you feel. The fact is that everything you have said in this thread is contradicted by EVERY manufacturer of backhoe attachments owners manual and you expect me to concede that somehow you're opinion is more valid than Bradco, Paladin, Ansung, KMW, and Woods is the only thing to laugh out loud at. My apologies for attempting to get you to think about the possible consequences of your opinion on here and by all means say whatever you want no matter how incorrect and irresponsible it may be.