4025 broken bh subframe

[Rock Crawler]

I look at the manufacturers safety type blurbs the same on my tractor as on my Jeep wrangler. If you offroad your "trail rated" Jeep Wrangler and mark up the bottom, you stand a REALLY good chance of warranty denial from top to bottom. But, I bought it to do a job... entertain the heck out of me while I beat that thing into a pile of twisted steel! I bought the tractor to do certain things as well. If it ends up beat into a pile of twisted steel along the way, so be it. Both a tractor manufacturer and Jeep will void the heck out of your warranty if they can prove that used the machine in a way not afforded to you by the terms of the warranty. So use your junk at your own risk I beat the dog-snot out of my new Jeep, but the warranty is in the tool boxes in my garages. I do not go to Jeep for anything. I do things to it that are specifically not allowed per the words of FIAT/Chrysler/Jeep. Screw them.

Those types of warnings/statements are liability related from the manufactures point of view. Like you or another said recently within this thread, it also allows them to put limits on what would be covered by warranty. I hate warranty repairs... you die of old age waiting for some shop to diagnose, get approval, order parts and finally do the repair. This can be a week, 2 weeks or maybe more. I can fabricate, build or repair an awful lot of in just a day or two. I do not have the patience to wait in line for warranty repairs.

Luckily for me, I do my own repairs on just about everything I own and what most people I know own. I also don't trust the average mechanic to touch my stuff. Some mechanics are exceptional and I have met a few, but there are a mess of them out there that are dumber than a bag of hammers.

If I tore the outriggers off, I would weld up bigger/better/badder ones. I have a welder/lathe/plasma table/mill and I am not afraid to use them.

 

[tkevan]

So, the manufacturer puts a specific requirement in instructions, which according to some here make the unit MORE unstable. Which would mean the manufacturer would be MORE liable for any mishap using their instructions? That makes sense to some of you here? All I can do is shake my head in wonderment.

Rock crawler. Point being that if you roll that wrangler off the rocks and crush your skull, make sure your family doesn't file a lawsuit against FCA.

 

[tracydj]

Not sure how this happened, but the subframe has sheared in 2 places just above the lower mounts. Is this frame cast iron? Is this reparable, or am i looking at a new subframe. Tractor has 70 hrs on it, and very little backhoe use.

The set up on my 2538 is similar but the bracket that the backhoe seats into looks like it could be removed with 6-8 bolts. It is all mounted to the subframe. It doesn't look to be anywhere close to a $1000 part per side. Part 21 on mine, Top Plate Assembly RH or LH.

 

[rustyshakelford]

So, the manufacturer puts a specific requirement in instructions, which according to some here make the unit MORE unstable. Which would mean the manufacturer would be MORE liable for any mishap using their instructions? That makes sense to some of you here? All I can do is shake my head in wonderment.

Rock crawler. Point being that if you roll that wrangler off the rocks and crush your skull, make sure your family doesn't file a lawsuit against FCA.

They don’t want increased warranty claims because they build a product not up for use as advertised. If it’s not strong enough to work while supporting the tractors weight then I have zero use for it. It’s typical CYA by business that are reducing quality to increase revenue.

Anyone that has actually run construction equipment knows the difference between the outriggers supporting the machine vs the tires and the outrigger having ground contact. My statement all along and I’ll do it in caps for ease of reading is the following

THE MOST STABLE PLATFORM WHEN OPERATING EQUIPMENT IS WHEN THE BULDGE IS REMOVED FROM THE TIRES. How anyone can argue that is beyond me. That is a basic fact with backhoes. Lord forbid you ever get off your tractor with the PTO engaged. It’s a miracle you haven’t been sucked into the shaft and sued the manufacturer....or you have and that’s the reason your the way you are. If that’s the case, thanks for all the warning stickers on m stuff

For those that go by the owners manual as gospel....don’t think for yourself, follow your instruction booklet blindly for your own safety.

Brett

 

[rustyshakelford]

I have been doing some reading of deeres literature. On some of the units they are calling the arms that contact the ground stabilizers. They specifically said they were not outriggers. That lends me to believe they aren’t of the same build quality to be considered as a traditional outrigger. That is a shame. If I rented one of these little units, I would operate it as I always have but will concede you should follow the manufacturer recommendations to CYA. I’m genuinely disappointed that they are passing off these products while charging a ton of money for them. I will never recommend anyone buy a TLB and instead use the money and rent a track hoe when needed.

Using the tires for stability isn’t a safe practice in the world I work in. Tires can fail and leave you with an unstable situation immediately.

Brett

 

[tkevan]

Bulge off the tires and tires off the ground is not the same, again, these are not 580s, they're tractors with attachments. You're correct that the 'stabilizers' on a Bradco don't, in any way shape or form, live up to an outrigger on a 580. The idea is to keep the center of gravity as low as possible. I do plenty of things with my tractor that are not in the manual, and probably not too safe, but I assume the risk of what happens. That being said, I don't tell others to do as I do.

 

[rustyshakelford]

Bulge off the tires and tires off the ground is not the same, again, these are not 580s, they're tractors with attachments. You're correct that the 'stabilizers' on a Bradco don't, in any way shape or form, live up to an outrigger on a 580. The idea is to keep the center of gravity as low as possible. I do plenty of things with my tractor that are not in the manual, and probably not too safe, but I assume the risk of what happens. That being said, I don't tell others to do as I do.

Bulge out of the tires or to where you can slide a sheet of paper under it was what I was saying. Unnecessary to get it way in the air unless the ground is that out of level and you’re wanting a level work platform

Brett

 

[mbohuntr]

You are BOTH correct... consider this.. a few years ago, my go to chainsaw broke. In a moment of desperation, I bought a Macolloch. spelled wrong...that new saw was so lobotomized by the legal team, it would only run at half throttle to minimize kickback, and the owners manual said to keep the tip guard on.

Anyone who knows saws realize you can't use if that way, so of course I fixed it, and prevented myself from suing the manufacturer... stupid? Yes... the world we live in.. I never recommend others do what I do. But make there own informed decisions.

 

[bmohr1954]

My only comment again is the reason the frame broke is: the load exceeded the design strength . That you have to agree, the reason that happened load was transferred because of a reason. Still go back and check all the bolts attaching the mounts to the tractor if non are loose- the failure was from operating in overload.
No BS just practical science. I am not saying the design is wrong just the load exceeded the design.

 

[tkevan]

My only comment again is the reason the frame broke is: the load exceeded the design strength . That you have to agree, the reason that happened load was transferred because of a reason. Still go back and check all the bolts attaching the mounts to the tractor if non are loose- the failure was from operating in overload.
No BS just practical science. I am not saying the design is wrong just the load exceeded the design.

Bradco has put a butt-ton (yes, that's an Official Term) of 509 hoes out over the last few decades. It's a proven design.

 

[tracydj]

Bradco has put a butt-ton (yes, that's an Official Term) of 509 hoes out over the last few decades. It's a proven design.

 

[bindian]

I have over 1200 hours on my 6520 and lots of that time was using my Bradco/Mahindra 511 (same hoe and subframe as 509 but with longer cylinders ) backhoe. If I just put a little weight on the outriggers, the hoe can pull the tractor. I put the whole weight of the rear of the tractor on the outriggers to keep from sliding. Lots of times I need to raise a wheel to make it all level. Both wheels are raised to walk it. I can't see tire bulge while hoeing, it is all by feel and seat of the pants experience

Of course my subframe is an inch thick with the added "J" collar at the mount for over 1.5 inches of bearing surface (per side) for the backhoe to sit on. Walking a backhoe puts stress on the upper mount. Continually digging against unmovable roots puts stress on the lower mounts.

The OP's lower mount is the same design as my lower subframe mount is. I think it was just a bad weld that concentrated the stress at the cracked place. I have found the more surface area you have on the ground while digging is better, with all the weight you can manage on the stabilizers. Just dig with your loader bucket raised to see the difference.

In the attached photo you can see how the lower mount just rests on the subframe and how much extra "meat" is below the mount on my subframe. I don't think it has that much metal below the op's cracked subframe.
hugs, Brandi

 

[Navvet]

Not sure how this happened, but the subframe has sheared in 2 places just above the lower mounts. Is this frame cast iron? Is this reparable, or am i looking at a new subframe. Tractor has 70 hrs on it, and very little backhoe use.

I am sure about how that happened ..... It just happened to me, same tractor, same BH, same break ....

1 or more of the bolts on the top back mounting plate for the subframe loosened .... This allowed inordinate stresses on the subframe where the BH mounts.

Hopefully I can get the subframe welded this week.


On a lighter note, I noticed a strange creaking / popping noise so I started to take the tractor back to the shop ....

After roughly 50 ft down the road, the backhoe just fell off my tractor onto the road ....

the looks on the faces on the two guys I was working with ---- priceless ....

 

[DavesTractor]

bmohr1954 is probably correct, the bolts up higher were likely loose. Has the original poster commented on whether the bolts were loose? With all the banter about bulges in tires and outriggers vs stabilizers I may have missed it.

That is a pretty easy welding project. I'd not pay $2000 for mounts if they can be welded up in a couple of hours. Then I'd look at the failure area and see if there is something to do to prevent a repeat. Obviously torque and locktite the bolts that came loose, but perhaps there are other means of reinforcing this area. This is not a hard repair for a competent welder.

Not to dive into the tire bulge debate, but no doubt the compact or farm tractor with a backhoe attachment is far less robust than a dedicated construction backhoe. But they aren't pushing $100k to buy a nice new one either, and you can remove the backhoe in minutes and mow your field. I own a nice track hoe, and it is smooth and powerful, but I bet to replace my pilot controls, just the controls, would cost as much as a new backhoe attachment in it's entirety. We can't expect them to be the same. They are a different animal. We sell over 100 backhoe attachments per year. People are tired of shovels, they need to dig some trenches, perhaps a footing, remove a few trees and so forth. These work great. But if you are digging septics every day or think you want to dig a basement, you need to rent or buy a construction grade machine.

Not to offend anyone at Mahindra, but I think I'd be slow to accuse an operator of abuse based on the premise that if it broke it did so because it was overloaded. What if the area was brittle due to improper welding processes? Tie goes to the runner in my book, but I don't know the details of this claim at all. And if the bolts were loose, how long did that take? If there were loose within a few hours of backhoe use, were they ever tight? Were they checked by the dealer in his PDI? Did they have locktite if the specs required that? I understand a customer needs to keep an eye on his machine, watch out for loose lug bolts, loader bolts, backhoe bolts and such, but they also need to be designed and installed in a manner that keeps them tight for long periods of time.

The good news is, as stated already, this is a piece of cake to fix.

 

[bindian]

Not long after I had been using my backhoe, 3 bolts holding the subframe to the axle housing sheared. I had to drop the right subframe from the tractor and drill and easyout the bolts. They came out easy. New bolts and no problems since. So, when you get a new backhoe, and even a new tractor with loader.............check the torque on all bolts. The dealer installed my backhoe.
hugs, Brandi

 

[erkme73]

No dog in this hunt, but the term "stabilizer" rung a bell for me. I have a 43' diesel-push motorhome that has 'stabilizers'. I've always used the terms stabilizers and levelers interchangeably. But, as it turns out, the former is NOT designed to lift the wheels off the ground, where the latter is. I'm guessing the same logic applies to stabilizers vs. outriggers.

 

[dfkrug]

We sell over 100 backhoe attachments per year.

Wow, that's a lot of hoes, Dave. I will bet that 99% of them don't even get 100 hours on them
in their lifetime.

I probably have 200 hours on my Woods clone hoe, and I just broke the swing cylinder mounts
the other day. Just too many hours of using the swing to move dirt sideways.

Once again, to your point, these attachments are not in the same league as those on industrial
hoes or excavators. Even Bradcos, which are well-made.

 

[DavesTractor]

Wow, that's a lot of hoes, Dave. I will bet that 99% of them don't even get 100 hours on them
in their lifetime.

I probably have 200 hours on my Woods clone hoe, and I just broke the swing cylinder mounts
the other day. Just too many hours of using the swing to move dirt sideways.

Once again, to your point, these attachments are not in the same league as those on industrial
hoes or excavators. Even Bradcos, which are well-made.

We seem to be a hot spot for backhoes for some reason. About half the tractors we sell go out with backhoes. And you are correct, most small backhoes see less than 200 hours of actual digging time in their lifetime. We do see some folks that have a big project in mind when they purchase, and they might run up 100 hours pretty quickly, but that is rare.

Backfilling with the side of the bucket does put a bit of strain on things. Woods builds a nice aftermarket backhoe, but I think Bradco is my favorite backhoe attachment. They are more expensive.

 

[dfkrug]

Backfilling with the side of the bucket does put a bit of strain on things.

Sideways force with CUT hoe attachments is pretty weak due to the geometry, but you still need to use it, and
the hoe should take it. My own hoe uses sleeve bearing inserts for most of the pivots, and that is a good
thing. I have replaced some already and have more on order.

All hoes should have these. Does Bradco?