Question for Hurricane Area Members

[zzvyb6]

As the dust settles in Houston and the water is rising in Florida, I would eventually like to know what home generator configurations have worked out the best. There has been a debate about this for as long as I can remember. What are the success and failure stories from the
hurricaine and tropical storm areas)?

Tractor PTO -(But you need the tractor to clear wreckage, trees, stabilize buildings, whatever. Don't want the motor running for so many hours, etc).

Small gasoline powered generator - (Tractor is free but gasoline not available, not enough power for long term needs)

Small diesel generators - (Are there a lot of these models handy to operate ?)

Large diesel generators - (storage, fuel stability, fuel availability)

Natural gas generators - Status of natural gas or propane supply

Solar battery charging systems (is there enough power to have a life for a few weeks with batteries ?)

Wind turbines - Enough power (after the fact of course. Would they survive 100+ mph winds) ?

Multiple power systems - Cost & maintenance of lots of equipment, multiple fuels, cable and plug sizes, storage of this equipment.

 

[houstonscott]

During hurricane Ike I used my Yamaha 2000. Ran for three days at my home then another two weeks at a friends. Kept the refrigerator and freezer going. Ran tv and a few lights. As far as gas, what I found was I had all the fuel needed in the cars. I owned three cars, drove one and took fuel from other two cars fuel tanks. Fuel supply's come back fast, not really an issue.

 

[rustyshakelford]

It comes down to frequency of expected use and budget. To me the best all around is a natural gas whole house generator of 17-22 kw minimum with an auto transfer switch. For us, we don't have NG so I use my Miller bobcat efi welder at 12kw to run the appliance and the small ac unit for bedrooms. It's set up in my shop out of the elements with a switch.

What im shopping for though is a larger diesel generator atleast 50kw and set that up permanently in the shop. We have bulk diesel on site and I wouldn't have to worry about the fuel going bad.

Brett

 

[wagne223]

I 've lived in FL my whole life. When the storm come I'm usually without power for 5-7 days.
No NG or propane on site.

I also like to keep things simple.

So, I have a generator feed into my main load center. All to code. The load center has a generator breaker that cannot be turned on until the main is off.

No auto switch. Just make the correct cord to connect gen to gen connect on house.

You have to load manage.
I use a 5000 watt construction generator.
I run, refrigerator, chest freezer, window AC plus misc lights TV, ect.

When the well tank is empty from flushing, I turn off every thing else and run the pump.

When it is time for showers I turn off every thing else and turn on the water heater for 30 mins to heat up. Then off with that and back on with the well pump.

You get the idea.

It would be nice to have a 20k watt with auto switch but that is not practical for me.

 

[vsteel]

I did a lot of research on past storms and a lot of it depends on what you have at hand, how you work, how you want to live, and geographic region.

1. How much power do you need? Need to run an electric heater, well pump, sump pump, water heater, AC, or other things?
2. How much inconvenience are you going to put up with and then take a realistic look at your budget. One extreme is you don't even want to know the power is out other than a small LED blinking or barely hearing the generator run. That option is going to take a lot of fuel and require an expensive generator and setup. Maybe you just want power to keep the freezer and refrigerator from spoiling the food. That is going to be the super cheap solution and won't require near the fuel.
3. Do you have a place that makes sense for solar or wind? Some places no matter what are not good for one or both so they are not practical.
4. How is your fuel supply (on location storage), how stable is your natural gas supply, do you have enough pressure and volume of NG to run a generator? Do you run a lot of things from propane or just have a tank for the generator, the more of a regular customer you are the higher you are going to be on the refill list. How soon does fuel supply come back? How soon does power come back?
5. Do you have a tractor(s)? Do you have fuel for them? Are you going to need them so you can't run the generator? Do you have multiple so one can be making power while the other is working? Do you care if there are times you would not have power because the tractor is busy? How reliable are the tractors?
6. How much power do you really need and what level of inconvenience are you willing to put up with during a power outage?
7. How mechanically adept are you? I ask because there are going to be people say I built this generator or I bought a non running military generator got it running and it works great for cheap. Do you have the mechanical skills, time, or desire to follow the more manual but cheaper path?

It is really going to come down to your personal situation and what you have and what you are willing to put up with. I personally did go with the PTO generator option for the following reasons.

1. I have 2 tractors so I can run the generator on gas or diesel, though when I bought the generator I only had the diesel tractor. This gives me a liquid cooled engine and it is always taken care of so ready to run.
2. I can have a lot of clean reliable power for cheap and there isn't another engine that I need to take care of. For the price of a PTO generator I couldn't touch a good quality generator of the same output.
3. Hours on the tractor? LOL, tractors are good for thousands of hours. Heck the old 1951 Oliver 77 I have used to farm 200+ acres for years and years by itself. I can remember my dad plowing for 2 weeks solid from dawn to dusk and that isn't counting the disking, rod weeding and planting along with the haying it would do as well. If the Oliver 77 or the John Deere 2320 have issues with even a couple of hundred hours more on them then I need to get rid of them and get a real tractor that is made to work.
4. I am OK if I need the tractor to not have power for a bit and I do have fuel storage to give me a lot of power for quite a while.

 

[bmg88201]

I have Kohler generator hard wired to my house, it sits on a small concrete slab and runs off the NG line that supplies my home, as soon as I lose power it kicks on. I think NG has a better chance of being available during a disaster. It runs my entire home. Delivered and installed for approx. $5500. It also starts up by itself once every three months and runs for 15 minutes. I service it once a year. It is 9 years old and is trouble free.

 

[s219]

I did a lot of research and planning and ended up with a 22kW water-cooled diesel unit (Isuzu diesel engine, Mecce Alte generator head, manual start and switchover). Going through that planning process tells me that everybody will have different factors and would arrive at some other unique setup based on their situation.

As I remember it, one of the key factors going diesel was that we don't have natural gas here, and have no other need for propane. Since I would not be a regular propane customer (ie, not getting refills on a normal basis) I would have had to buy the propane tank outright, pay for installation, and be responsible for all maintenance, leaks, etc. Big difference from a normal customer who either gets a tank installed for free or rents it, with full maintenance coverage, for mere dollars a month. Taking into account the cost of the tank/etc caused the propane options to price themselves out of contention.

Another consideration on the larger units is water-cooled versus air-cooled. For example, you can buy a ~14kW Generac gas/propane generator in an air-cooled 3600rpm configuration or a water-cooled 1800rpm configurations. The latter costs about twice as much, but should last longer and run quieter. Is that enough to justify the extra cost?

Finally, do you want an automatic transfer switch, load shedding, etc, or have full manual control?? All have pros and cons. You can always start off with a manual setup and add those other options later (as I may consider when I get older and put more value on convenience).

 

[s219]

BTW, the flaw with any of these generator options is the vulnerability of the generator or fuel tank/source during a hurricane. A tree could flatten my generator shed and I'd be out of business. Other people are at flood risk. Put some thought into how you can protect the generator and fuel tank/source from various storm hazards.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Around here the most popular fuel source for heating is home heating oil and the gold standard for generators is a diesel generator plumbed right into the fuel oil tank. When I buy fuel oil the invoice I get from the oil company says "diesel oil" on it, they are the same thing here. (I realize in some places they aren't).

I've lived places where natural gas was the dominant heating fuel and there the gold standard was a natural gas powered generator. Whatever you use for heat -- so long as it isn't electricity or solar.

 

[TheMan419]

Don't live in hurricane country but in lake effect snow country. We have a gasoline powered generator.

When I bought it we were in a different house and setting up a natural gas one would have been big bucks. Now at the new house it would have been a snap. So if/when it is time to replace this gen set I hope to be in a position to do the whole house I don't even realize the power went out set up.

 

[omrebel]

Sorry, internet went out and it posted to wrong thread.

 

[John_Mc]

I had the main panel on my house wired for a generator hook up. There is a mechanical interlock in the panel so the generator circuit breaker can't be turned on unless the main is off (isolating it from the grid). I can switch on various circuits as needed to manage the load. There is a plug on the outside of the house where I can connect my generator.

I was able to do fine with just a 4500 watt portable gas generator (6000 watt surge). This was enough to keep my fridge and freezer going, some lights, and supply power to my boiler (propane, but need electricity to run the controls and various zone pumps). When I needed to run the pump for our 500 foot deep well, I just shut off the breakers for the freezer and fridge. It does help being in VT, in a well insulated house no real need for AC, and with the ability to use either our wood stove or our boiler as primary heat. Our hot water comes from a loop off the main boiler, so no heavy electrical load for that. We can cook in our microwave (which is also a convection oven) or in our toaster oven.

I did add a propane conversion kit to the generator (about $150, if I recall), which allows me to run off either propane or gasoline. We have a 500 gallon buried propane tank, which is oversized for our needs (in a year when I don't run the wood stove much, I use about 650 gallons of propane for the year. For longer outages, I can connect the generator directly to the 500 gallon tank.

My original generator was fried by a lightning strike a few years ago (it was not in use at the time, but an extension cord up to our treehouse was plugged into it). I replaced it with a Honda 5500 watt continuous generator. I have the propane conversion kit for it, but have not installed it yet.

Frankly, I have no interest in going larger on the generator. It does not take a lot of fuel, and we can get by indefinitely on it. Sure, we'll know the power is out, but we really don't care. We're interested in emergency survival and protecting our home from damage, not living in luxury.

 

[CalG]

Just what do you need electricity for when all the communication lines are down?

Charge your cell phone?

 

[John_Mc]

A word of warning:

A lot of portable generators out there - including some advertised as being good for "emergency backup power" - have very dirty power: a Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) of 20% or more. The max recommended for use with electronics is around 5 or 6%. You may think "big deal, so I can't watch my TV". The problem is that most modern heating systems have electronic controls. Some of these simply won't run on such dirty power. Make SURE your critical systems will run on whatever generator you buy.

 

[two_bit_score]

A word of warning:

A lot of portable generators out there - including some advertised as being good for "emergency backup power" - have very dirty power: a Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) of 20% or more. The max recommended for use with electronics is around 5 or 6%. You may think "big deal, so I can't watch my TV". The problem is that most modern heating systems have electronic controls. Some of these simply won't run on such dirty power. Make SURE your critical systems will run on whatever generator you buy.

What is the best way to make sure of that?

 

[coobie]

As the dust settles in Houston and the water is rising in Florida, I would eventually like to know what home generator configurations have worked out the best. There has been a debate about this for as long as I can remember. What are the success and failure stories from the
hurricaine and tropical storm areas)?

Tractor PTO -(But you need the tractor to clear wreckage, trees, stabilize buildings, whatever. Don't want the motor running for so many hours, etc).

Small gasoline powered generator - (Tractor is free but gasoline not available, not enough power for long term needs)

Small diesel generators - (Are there a lot of these models handy to operate ?)

Large diesel generators - (storage, fuel stability, fuel availability)

Natural gas generators - Status of natural gas or propane supply

Solar battery charging systems (is there enough power to have a life for a few weeks with batteries ?)

Wind turbines - Enough power (after the fact of course. Would they survive 100+ mph winds) ?

Multiple power systems - Cost & maintenance of lots of equipment, multiple fuels, cable and plug sizes, storage of this equipment.

Being a retired electric lineman (38 years)I had the chance to see and hear a lot of generators.We ended up buying a 17KW whole house propane generator.Purchased a portabale honda 2000 watt for work around the yard.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Mine is an old "Power Back 5250 run".. I think its 6000 surge, it runs the whole house except the stove..
10hp Tecumseh motor that I converted to electric start for 100.00 w/ parts from ebay.. toothed flywheel & starter.. I just hook up my jump box for a second, direct to the starter.. no battery to maintain.. & I'm up & running.. total time without power>> 15 minutes MAX..
It'll run 9hrs on a tank of fuel & has a low oil shut down system on it.. You can pick them up for around 250.00/300.00 on Craigs List.. all day long..
I'm looking for a larger one w/ duel fuel..but cant seem to find a 10K watt for under a grand..

 

[aczlan]

Just what do you need electricity for when all the communication lines are down?

Charge your cell phone?

Keeping freezers/fridges cold, AC/heat running (depending on the area and season), water pressure up (if on a well), hot water hot, etc, etc, etc.

Aaron Z

 

[oosik]

Been here 35+ years - never once had to run my generator to keep things going. Longest power outage - 21 hours. Power provided by excellent co-op and we don't experience extremes of wx here.

 

[John_Mc]

What is the best way to make sure of that?

Best way to check on THD is to find it in the manual or ask the manufacturer. I've found that the harder the information is to pry out of someone, the more likely it is to be a problem. THD tends to go up the more heavily loaded and generator is. Beware of manufacturers who "you did THD at 50% load, or don't tell you at what % load the rating was made. If the answer is "that specification is not available", you are likely either talking to a dealer who doesn't know his stuff or is too lazy to find out, or the rating is so bad there embarrassed to make it public.

For example, Generac GP series does not publish the THD spec. If you ask them, they'll just say "it's over 6%." If you push hard enough they'll eventually tell you it's something like 23% went at full load. That stinks. Some of their higher end generator lines are quite good, however.

Every inverter based generator I have ever seen has better power quality than the grid. They are rather expensive, however, And their search capacity tends to be lower.

Other specs to look at other specs to look at are frequency stability and voltage regulation. Frequency should be within plus/minusa couple hertz throughout the specified load range. I'm not sure what and " officially acceptable" voltage range is. I'd like to see mine between 110 and 130 VAC. I've noticed that a lot of portable generators tend to be set towards the high-end of that range. That's probably not a bad thing, since they often tend to be used with long extension cord's which can cause some voltage drop.