Cemetery orientation -- exceptions to the rule

[DrRod]

Since the middle ages, cemeteries have been laid out so that the residents could rise up facing the east at the second coming. I recall seeing an old item in Ripley's Believe It Or Not about a cemetery that was laid out north/south rather than east/west so it must be considered universal.

We have a very old cemetery where the oldest part is also laid out in this alternate manner -- north/south. The cemetery was established behind a log cabin Dunkard church in the 1800's. The Dunkards later became the Bretheran and are still much in evidence in our area. The markers must have been wood since they are all gone now but the plots are very clearly visible.

I've asked every church member and local old timer if they know why this would be but they don't know. The minister didn't even know about the whole east/west thing.

So I'm throwing this out to see if anyone would have some insight into this oddity.

Thanks

 

[riptides]

Since the middle ages, cemeteries have been laid out so that the residents could rise up facing the east at the second coming. I recall seeing an old item in Ripley's Believe It Or Not about a cemetery that was laid out north/south rather than east/west so it must be considered universal.

We have a very old cemetery where the oldest part is also laid out in this alternate manner -- north/south. The cemetery was established behind a log cabin Dunkard church in the 1800's. The Dunkards later became the Bretheran and are still much in evidence in our area. The markers must have been wood since they are all gone now but the plots are very clearly visible.

I've asked every church member and local old timer if they know why this would be but they don't know. The minister didn't even know about the whole east/west thing.

So I'm throwing this out to see if anyone would have some insight into this oddity.

Thanks

It could have been not practical to use the east west layout for the plot itself due to natural obstructions of some sort? Or it could have been where their perception of east was during the time of plot layout?

 

[tcreeley]

Found this- Facing East Burial Method. Genealogy, History, Family History, American South.

If they couldn't place bodies E/W, they used N/S and buried people on their side so that their eyes face to the east.

Then also they said that not everyone layed out a cemetary with a compass, and time of day/season threw off accurate determinations of E and W.

This is all new to me!

 

[Complete Turf Care]

I live in Rayne, Louisiana where we have a 'wrong way' cemetery.

Rayne, LA - Wrong Way Catholic Cemetery

 

[CobyRupert]

Never new about cemeteries being that way, but the Mason Hall sure is.

 

[oosik]

I've never heard of this situation. I know from the dozen or so cemeteries I've visited here in the wheat country - they surely do not appear to be laid out in an E-W orientation. Every small town, which has a grain elevator, usually always has a cemetery. There are also many private family cemeteries in this area.

In my travels, I will take a compass and check those I'm aware of.

 

[Wagtail]

Just to throw a different oddity into this... many old cemeteries, if 'mixed' RC and Protestant, not only had them in different sections but they would be further divided by a brick wall.

And that wall went down 6 feet. ath:

.............................

Just Googled and the cemetery with the buried wall between P's & RC's is in Belfast, Ireland

.............................

 

[Sigarms]

Amazing how much stock we put into our bodies when our body is dead.

The only cemetary I still frequent is where my mom is burried and I don't get their often as it's in Pa. National cemetery, where 3 uncles and 2 cousins are burried as well. Off memory, I HIGHLY doubt that all the "residents" are burried facing east, but will need to take a compass the next time.

Small creek up in Pennslvania I was paddling by myself. Had hard rains, and it pretty much a raging river. Came across 3 guys paddling, 2 where from Michigan (I was young, probably mid 20's, these guys all looked older, mid to late 40's I'd guess). They asked if I knew the river and if they could tag along going down as they hadn't paddled the this creek in years and was totally different at higher water . We paddled for a ways, then asked if we could take a break. Turns out they had come to Pa for their buddies funeral, as all 4 of them (including the gent who had passed) had paddled this river when they were my age. During our stop, the took out a bag of ashes, which it turned out was their buddy. We all said a prayer and they spead his ashes into the river, as it was the dead man's request. Amazing friends and one of the coolest furnerals I've ever attended.

From time to time I do remind my boys that I hope they work hard and smart when they get old, as our only request after we're dead is to spread our ashes in some areas of the country we loved being in.

 

[RSKY]

Slightly off topic but does anybody know the difference between a cemetery and a graveyard? There is a difference you know.

Found this out on a ghost tour in Charlestown SC years ago.

RSKY

 

[woody]

Amazing how much stock we put into our bodies when our body is dead.

The only cemetary I still frequent is where my mom is burried and I don't get their often as it's in Pa. National cemetery, where 3 uncles and 2 cousins are burried as well. Off memory, I HIGHLY doubt that all the "residents" are burried facing east, but will need to take a compass the next time.

Small creek up in Pennslvania I was paddling by myself. Had hard rains, and it pretty much a raging river. Came across 3 guys paddling, 2 where from Michigan (I was young, probably mid 20's, these guys all looked older, mid to late 40's I'd guess). They asked if I knew the river and if they could tag along going down as they hadn't paddled the this creek in years and was totally different at higher water . We paddled for a ways, then asked if we could take a break. Turns out they had come to Pa for their buddies funeral, as all 4 of them (including the gent who had passed) had paddled this river when they were my age. During our stop, the took out a bag of ashes, which it turned out was their buddy. We all said a prayer and they spead his ashes into the river, as it was the dead man's request. Amazing friends and one of the coolest furnerals I've ever attended.

From time to time I do remind my boys that I hope they work hard and smart when they get old, as our only request after we're dead is to spread our ashes in some areas of the country we loved being in.

My Father-in-law has requested the same thing, there is a small creek not far from where we live and we have floated it many times he says he would like to scattered there.

 

[tcreeley]

Some of my brother's ashes are in his beloved hosta garden, the Maine coast up near Otter cliffs, and on my sister's mantle. - I want to be tossed near where I buried my favorite horse. - But then, we will never know! Might go on the ice to keep someone from slipping!

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

From time to time I do remind my boys that I hope they work hard and smart when they get old, as our only request after we're dead is to spread our ashes in some areas of the country we loved being in.

They aren't going to be able to do that. There are no "ashes".

Might go on the ice to keep someone from slipping!

That would work pretty well, I think, since what you get back from the crematorium is not "ashes", but the skeleton, ground up. It's basically rock (calcium carbonate, mostly) and it doesn't burn very well. You can put enough heat into it to reduce it to lime, but that gets expensive.

So, they burn away the flesh, then feed the skeleton into a big grinder. Pop open an urn sometime and you'll see very white particles, about the size of BBs, give or take. It's not uniform in size. Kind of like very coarse sand, which is why I say it would be good for ice. It's shockingly white, really, except for a few blackened sides that were on the outside of the bone.

Calling it "ashes" instead of "ground up skeleton" sounds more romantic, I guess. Well, less obviously offensive, anyway. I suspect sales would drop if the general population knew what really gets done.

OF course, that oven and that grinder never get completely cleaned out between bodies, so you probably have some of old Lester Philips who hated grandma and died a couple of days before she did, mixed in with grandma, and a bit of grandma hung around and got in with that troublemaker teenager who was always driving too fast and finally got what was coming to him.

That's assuming you are dealing with an honest crematorium, and they aren't saving money & time by tossing in several skeletons at once and then just divvying up the skeleton grindings among the correct number of urns.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

They aren't going to be able to do that. There are no "ashes".




That would work pretty well, I think, since what you get back from the crematorium is not "ashes", but the skeleton, ground up. It's basically rock (calcium carbonate, mostly) and it doesn't burn very well. You can put enough heat into it to reduce it to lime, but that gets expensive.

So, they burn away the flesh, then feed the skeleton into a big grinder. Pop open an urn sometime and you'll see very white particles, about the size of BBs, give or take. It's not uniform in size. Kind of like very coarse sand, which is why I say it would be good for ice. It's shockingly white, really, except for a few blackened sides that were on the outside of the bone.

Calling it "ashes" instead of "ground up skeleton" sounds more romantic, I guess. Well, less obviously offensive, anyway. I suspect sales would drop if the general population knew what really gets done.

OF course, that oven and that grinder never get completely cleaned out between bodies, so you probably have some of old Lester Philips who hated grandma and died a couple of days before she did, mixed in with grandma, and a bit of grandma hung around and got in with that troublemaker teenager who was always driving too fast and finally got what was coming to him.

That's assuming you are dealing with an honest crematorium, and they aren't saving money & time by tossing in several skeletons at once and then just divvying up the skeleton grindings among the correct number of urns.

I bet you're a lot of fun at parties!

 

[Thall303]

Interesting and true!

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Slightly off topic but does anybody know the difference between a cemetery and a graveyard? There is a difference you know.

Found this out on a ghost tour in Charlestown SC years ago.

RSKY

Here is the answer RSKY beings you asked:

Difference Between Cemetery and Graveyard | Difference Between

Ron

 

[4570Man]

They aren't going to be able to do that. There are no "ashes".




That would work pretty well, I think, since what you get back from the crematorium is not "ashes", but the skeleton, ground up. It's basically rock (calcium carbonate, mostly) and it doesn't burn very well. You can put enough heat into it to reduce it to lime, but that gets expensive.

So, they burn away the flesh, then feed the skeleton into a big grinder. Pop open an urn sometime and you'll see very white particles, about the size of BBs, give or take. It's not uniform in size. Kind of like very coarse sand, which is why I say it would be good for ice. It's shockingly white, really, except for a few blackened sides that were on the outside of the bone.

Calling it "ashes" instead of "ground up skeleton" sounds more romantic, I guess. Well, less obviously offensive, anyway. I suspect sales would drop if the general population knew what really gets done.

OF course, that oven and that grinder never get completely cleaned out between bodies, so you probably have some of old Lester Philips who hated grandma and died a couple of days before she did, mixed in with grandma, and a bit of grandma hung around and got in with that troublemaker teenager who was always driving too fast and finally got what was coming to him.

That's assuming you are dealing with an honest crematorium, and they aren't saving money & time by tossing in several skeletons at once and then just divvying up the skeleton grindings among the correct number of urns.

I don't have any first hand experience with 'ashes' but from what I've seen on movies and such it's a very small amount. Like maybe a coke can full. A ground up skeleton would be a lot more. Where's the discrepancy? I'm not questioning the authenticity of your statement, but trying to satisfy my curiosity.

 

[Wagtail]

They aren't going to be able to do that. There are no "ashes"...

A few times during my Naval service we would get a 'shipment' of urns from former (deceased and cremated) Navy personnel whose last wish was to be buried at sea. The only stipulation for the remains was that it had to be a plastic 'urn'.

...which, of course, wouldn't sink. So we'd have to open up the urn and drop in several heavy nuts & bolts, then I'd use the spike on my dirk to pierce the urn multiple times so it would fill up quickly with seawater and sink.

I still have that dirk. Lord knows how many 'souls' are attached to it, if that's the case.

 

[Sigarms]

They aren't going to be able to do that. There are no "ashes".

When my body is dead, I promise you, I won't lose any sleep over it.

What people seem to never understand is that it's the act itself that's done with the remains that seems so important to us.

Ultimately, our goal is to get our boys to some of the areas that both my wife and I loved after we die if they never get to visit those places.

As I've gotten older, I've come to understand that what's most important what you leave is emotional, not physical.

My mom would of been proud of me with the sense of humor she had given me. When she passed at the hospital in Fairfax Virginia, we had to get her back to Pennsylvania. The following day after she died I had to talk to the person in charge of the body at the hospital (my dad wasn't in a good place and I had to kind of do everything). I asked the woman with a straight face that since we were in a rush to get mom back to PA, if I couldn't drive her myself that day, if it would be ok to UPS her next day air so we could ensure she get's back tomorrow. The look on that womans face was priceless.

My mother is always with me, that's because of her love for me.

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

I bet you're a lot of fun at parties!

Yep. But then, the people I hang out with like to learn things. I do recognize that most prefer to remain ignorant. Hence our political mess, but that's another topic.

I don't have any first hand experience with 'ashes' but from what I've seen on movies and such it's a very small amount. Like maybe a coke can full. A ground up skeleton would be a lot more. Where's the discrepancy? I'm not questioning the authenticity of your statement, but trying to satisfy my curiosity.

Um.... you're going by what you saw in a movie? Okay. I'm going by what I learned when I took a short time to work in the funeral business, seeing it firsthand. Maybe the discrepancy is the difference between Hollywood and reality. (HINT: Guns don't blast people across a room and throw them against a wall, either.) A typical adult will fit comfortably in a #10 can.

A few times during my Naval service we would get a 'shipment' of urns from former (deceased and cremated) Navy personnel whose last wish was to be buried at sea. The only stipulation for the remains was that it had to be a plastic 'urn'.

...which, of course, wouldn't sink. So we'd have to open up the urn and drop in several heavy nuts & bolts, then I'd use the spike on my dirk to pierce the urn multiple times so it would fill up quickly with seawater and sink.

I still have that dirk. Lord knows how many 'souls' are attached to it, if that's the case.

That's quite a keepsake.

I once researched the burial at sea regs (and no, JFK Jr. should NOT have been according to the regs), but I never looked into the requirements for cremains. I don't recall all the details, but it had to be a metal casket (no wood), and it had to have several 4" holes drilled in it so that it would sink. The exact number was specified, but I don't recall what it was. I'm thinking it was in the neighborhood of a half dozen....

 

[Sigarms]

Yep. But then, the people I hang out with like to learn things. I do recognize that most prefer to remain ignorant. Hence our political mess, but that's another topic.

You're absolutely right. Have no idea how many people can't pronounce mature correct