The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

[lostcreekranch]

Well you wrote that you had "so many fleas to circumcise". I figured you were grappling that task, I did not bring up the subject. . Dumb joke I guess. My bad

Never once said I or me. Read it again?

Point is that, anytime a member considers a grapple wider than 48", with more than one lid, and weighing over 200 lb. he get exercised, tutored, scolded about how faulty his logic is. It's just gets old going over the same ground over and over and over. Beating the dead horse, so to speak.

Grapples are not one size fits all. I'm lucky enough to have two because I have many uses for my grapples. My 50 HP tractor cannot lift some of the VL dead trees I have taken out. My 100 HP tractor can't into some of the places I need to reach.

 

[IslandTractor]

The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

Never once said I or me. Read it again?

Point is that, anytime a member considers a grapple wider than 48", with more than one lid, and weighing over 200 lb. he get exercised, tutored, scolded about how faulty his logic is. It's just gets old going over the same ground over and over and over. Beating the dead horse, so to speak.

Grapples are not one size fits all. I'm lucky enough to have two because I have many uses for my grapples. My 50 HP tractor cannot lift some of the VL dead trees I have taken out. My 100 HP tractor can't into some of the places I need to reach.

People have different opinions and needs. Some are informed and some are naive. Hard to gain significant grapple experience before making a purchase so reading different opinions on TBN is important. Reasonable informed people can disagree but nobody should make their grapple choice based on ignorance or false marketing information. The idea for example that a double lid weighs the same as a single or that a 72 weighs only 38 something more pounds than a 55 is flatly false. Try weighing a grapple lid and cylinder. Read marketing materials critically folks.

I keep asking if any of you double wide grapple enthusiasts have ever heard of a single narrow grapple owner who was disappointed and traded up. We certainly hear of many folks who trade up tractors. Doesn't it seem odd that nobody who owns a single finds it wanting? I am aware that several guys own both types but I don't recall a single TBNer who has ditched their single lid narrow light duty grapple because it didn't meet expectations.

Think about it.

And, I think EA grapples are great. Best lids in the business and a good company to deal with. They are apparently so busy selling grapples that they don't have time to correct misleading sales info. Poor Travis is probably enjoying a well deserved peaceful weekend. Let's hope he finds some time soon to measure some accurate weights and fix their website.

 

[Sysop]

Recent experience has taught me the lid on my single 54" is 94lbs without the cylinder.

 

[IslandTractor]

Recent experience has taught me the lid on my single 54" is 94lbs without the cylinder.

Thanks for providing real data.

Add the cylinder and it's probably in the 110-120 lb range. Consider additionally that the weight is about 16-18" ahead of the pivot points and you get something like 150lb net lift capacity penalty for a second lid. Not trivial.

 

[Cataclysm]

I just ordered one yesterday and they have a 8 week back log on orders to manufacture.
They must be pretty good to be selling so many!

This cyclic, myopic thread is probably helping! Drama attracts people like flies to honey!!

I just recently received my Wicked. I think it was about 4 weeks. I do remember it showed up 1 week earlier than I expected.

 

[Cataclysm]

Re: The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

People have different opinions and needs. Some are informed and some are naive. Hard to gain significant grapple experience before making a purchase so reading different opinions on TBN is important. Reasonable informed people can disagree but nobody should make their grapple choice based on ignorance or false marketing information. The idea for example that a double lid weighs the same as a single or that a 72 weighs only 38 something more pounds than a 55 is flatly false. Try weighing a grapple lid and cylinder. Read marketing materials critically folks.

I keep asking if any of you double wide grapple enthusiasts have ever heard of a single narrow grapple owner who was disappointed and traded up. We certainly hear of many folks who trade up tractors. Doesn't it seem odd that nobody who owns a single finds it wanting? I am aware that several guys own both types but I don't recall a single TBNer who has ditched their single lid narrow light duty grapple because it didn't meet expectations.

Think about it.

And, I think EA grapples are great. Best lids in the business and a good company to deal with. They are apparently so busy selling grapples that they don't have time to correct misleading sales info. Poor Travis is probably enjoying a well deserved peaceful weekend. Let's hope he finds some time soon to measure some accurate weights and fix their website.

EA's chart for the 71hp tractor that was the subject of discussion clearly states a 38 lbs difference in the 55" vs the 72" grapple. Single or dual lid charts are the same 38 lbs difference.

One thing that I will point out is that the difference in weight of a single lid vs a set (2 pieces) of duals isn't going to be much. I actually didn't notice this until just now. The single lid has 4 tines, one flat brace and one cylinder. The dual lid has 4 tines, two flat braces and two cylinders. You have 1 additional brace and one additional cylinder. I can see the brace and cylinder weighing somewhere around 38 lbs.

Minimal weight difference at best and the "work" done in a day would be no different due to weight difference.

 

[IslandTractor]

This cyclic, myopic thread is probably helping! Drama attracts people like flies to honey!!

I just recently received my Wicked. I think it was about 4 weeks. I do remember it showed up 1 week earlier than I expected.

Cyclic and repetitive perhaps but myopic?? Is correcting blatantly false sales information "myopic"? Would it be "myopic" of you to acknowledge rather than ignore that you posted some data copied from the EA website that just makes no sense?

EA makes great grapples. If I needed a new grapple today I'd buy an EA. However, IMO they are a bit more focused on selling ANY grapple than perhaps they should especially as the vast majority of grapple shoppers have zero grapple experience to base purchase decisions on. For example, none of their literature discusses weight penalties except as it relates to their advantage over other grapple companies. You'd think that a company that extols their weight advantage over competitors would be a bit more careful to educate their potential clients about the functional differences and impact of (accurate) weights between their own offerings.

 

[IslandTractor]

The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

EA's chart for the 71hp tractor that was the subject of discussion clearly states a 38 lbs difference in the 55" vs the 72" grapple. Single or dual lid charts are the same 38 lbs difference.

One thing that I will point out is that the difference in weight of a single lid vs a set (2 pieces) of duals isn't going to be much. I actually didn't notice this until just now. The single lid has 4 tines, one flat brace and one cylinder. The dual lid has 4 tines, two flat braces and two cylinders. You have 1 additional brace and one additional cylinder. I can see the brace and cylinder weighing somewhere around 38 lbs.

Minimal weight difference at best and the "work" done in a day would be no different due to weight difference.

Think it through again. You seem to believe that a 73" grapple weighs only 38lbs more than a 55" grapple that is identical except it has 18" more steel. You are saying that increasing the grapple width by 25% would barely increase the weight. How many cubic inches of extra 3/8" steel do you imagine are in the wider grapple? A cubic inch of steel weighs 0.28 lbs. With ?8-9" time spacing there would be two extra tines plus 36" more tubing and welds and gussets. Plus larger lids. 38lbs is bogus or bad copy editing.

 

[Cataclysm]

Cyclic and repetitive perhaps but myopic?? Is correcting blatantly false sales information "myopic"? Would it be "myopic" of you to acknowledge rather than ignore that you posted some data copied from the EA website that just makes no sense?

EA makes great grapples. If I needed a new grapple today I'd buy an EA. However, IMO they are a bit more focused on selling ANY grapple than perhaps they should especially as the vast majority of grapple shoppers have zero grapple experience to base purchase decisions on. For example, none of their literature discusses weight penalties except as it relates to their advantage over other grapple companies. You'd think that a company that extols their weight advantage over competitors would be a bit more careful to educate their potential clients about the functional differences and impact of (accurate) weights between their own offerings.

I did state my source and it does make sense. You don't have to agree with it. I am open to better information. Just for reference, is there a weight difference that you would consider nil? I'd go with 100lbs as nil on anything but the tiniest of tractors.

I never got the vibe of selling any grapple from EA. Travis and I had a good discussion about my needs when I placed my order. I didn't feel any pressure to even place an order. Others may feel differently though.

Yes, myopic because the discussion keeps getting focused on a small weight difference in the EA grapples that makes no real world difference to 99% of the people using grapples.

Just to be clear I'm not trying to change you view point or lead anyone to any particular grapple.

 

[Cataclysm]

Re: The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

Think it through again. You seem to believe that a 73" grapple weighs only 38lbs more than a 55" grapple that is identical except it has 18" more steel. You are saying that increasing the grapple width by 25% would barely increase the weight. How many cubic inches of extra 3/8" steel do you imagine are in the wider grapple? A cubic inch of steel weighs 0.28 lbs. With ?8-9" time spacing there would be two extra tines plus 36" more tubing and welds and gussets. Plus larger lids. 38lbs is bogus or bad copy editing.

Your still guessing just the same. I'd be happy to put my grapple on the scales.

 

[4570Man]

The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

So how many of you can load stumps that fill dump trucks with single lid grapples?

 

[IslandTractor]

The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

Stumps of all sizes and shapes are easy peasy with my 48 single. I've moved stumps that size too. The key is grapple jaw opening not dual lids. My single opens 42+ inches. I've grappled and moved stumps bigger than I could lift to dump truck height as my loader capacity is only 2760lbs. You're using a 100hp utility tractor, mine is a 40hp CUT. I just grapple bigger stumps, lift 18" and drive them away.

Stumps are not the objects you dually fans want to concentrate on. Try piles of split and cut firewood or random construction debris instead. Those are good reasons for dual lids.

 

[IslandTractor]

I did state my source and it does make sense. You don't have to agree with it. I am open to better information. Just for reference, is there a weight difference that you would consider nil? I'd go with 100lbs as nil on anything but the tiniest of tractors.

I never got the vibe of selling any grapple from EA. Travis and I had a good discussion about my needs when I placed my order. I didn't feel any pressure to even place an order. Others may feel differently though.

Yes, myopic because the discussion keeps getting focused on a small weight difference in the EA grapples that makes no real world difference to 99% of the people using grapples.

Just to be clear I'm not trying to change you view point or lead anyone to any particular grapple.

Don't tell EA that 100lbs extra weight is "nil". They jump through hoops like they are building a race car to knock even a few pounds off their grapple weights and brag about it (justifiably IMO) when they compare their grapples to standard issue. If 100 lbs was "nil" do you think they'd use thinner more expensive high strength steel to substitute for thicker mild steel?

And remember that 100 lbs is forward of the pivot pins so functionally is about 150 or more off net lift. That might be a "nil" difference for a loader capacity over 3000 lbs like on a skidsteer or utility tractor but for an average CUT with loader capacity of 1200-2000 lbs, that 150lbs is in fact important.

 

[IslandTractor]

The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

Stumps of all sizes and shapes are easy peasy with my 48 single. I've moved stumps that size too. The key is grapple jaw opening not dual lids. My single opens 42+ inches. I've grappled and moved stumps bigger than I could lift to dump truck height as my loader capacity is only 2760lbs. You're using a 100hp utility tractor, mine is a 40hp CUT. I just grapple bigger stumps, lift 18" and drive them away.

Stumps are not the objects you dually fans want to concentrate on. Try piles of split and cut firewood or random construction debris instead. Those are good reasons for dual lids.

I cannot figure out how to access my photos from the ipad I am using but here is a link to an older post that has a big ole stump securely grappled. Look for the photo with a red SUV in the background. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...t-debris-grapple-post4293525.html#post4293525

 

[4570Man]

The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

I don't have any other pictures besides logs because it's too dangerous to get out with a hap hazard load to take a picture.

 

[4570Man]

Re: The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

Stumps of all sizes and shapes are easy peasy with my 48 single. I've moved stumps that size too. The key is grapple jaw opening not dual lids. My single opens 42+ inches. I've grappled and moved stumps bigger than I could lift to dump truck height as my loader capacity is only 2760lbs. You're using a 100hp utility tractor, mine is a 40hp CUT. I just grapple bigger stumps, lift 18" and drive them away.

Stumps are not the objects you dually fans want to concentrate on. Try piles of split and cut firewood or random construction debris instead. Those are good reasons for dual lids.

You might push stumps that size across the ground, but that's about it. And that stump is bigger than 42"

 

[Cataclysm]

Don't tell EA that 100lbs extra weight is "nil". They jump through hoops like they are building a race car to knock even a few pounds off their grapple weights and brag about it (justifiably IMO) when they compare their grapples to standard issue. If 100 lbs was "nil" do you think they'd use thinner more expensive high strength steel to substitute for thicker mild steel?

And remember that 100 lbs is forward of the pivot pins so functionally is about 150 or more off net lift. That might be a "nil" difference for a loader capacity over 3000 lbs like on a skidsteer or utility tractor but for an average CUT with loader capacity of 1200-2000 lbs, that 150lbs is in fact important.

So what's your estimation of nil with a 1200-2000 lbs loader capacity?

 

[TomSeller]

So how many of you can load stumps that fill dump trucks with single lid grapples?<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=514724"/> <img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=514725"/>

I can do that with both my dual lid and my single lid. I can load a heavier stump with my lighter single lid so that is what I would put on the FEL for a heavy stump.

 

[IslandTractor]

So what's you estimation of nil with a 1200-2000 lbs loader capacity?

Good question. I would think it depends on what I am getting in terms of added functionality for the extra weight. If I were a firewood dealer then 150 lbs would be a fair trade off for the extra wood I could carry as the limitation on load size with firewood is clamping not lift capacity. If I were only interested in moving stumps or logs then IMO all the lost lift capacity is regrettable as the second lid doesn't add anything. For brush it is a toss up as the second lid doesn't add much but also doesn't detract from load capacity as brush just isn't dense enough to challenge lift capacity.

And, I have to come back to the simple fact that regardless of weight penalty significance, dual lid grapples cost more and are beneficial in only limited settings. A narrow single is just fine for the great majority of tasks that a private landowner might need a grapple for.

 

[IslandTractor]

Re: The WICKED Root &amp; Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

You might push stumps that size across the ground, but that's about it. And that stump is bigger than 42"

That photo shows the big maple stump at least 18" off the ground as I moved it slowly a couple hundred yards. Lift capacity and ballast were the limiting factors. That was about as high as I could lift it without staining my shorts. Even with the backhoe mounted the rear end was very light. The stump was however well secured in the grapple. You cannot see the upper lid because the stump was so big the upper tines were clamped on the other side.