M62 TLB wheel spacers

[BeaconWoods]

Shortly after my 4720 broke in half I realized that I needed a new tractor. So, we looked around a bit and settled on a Kubota M62 TLB. Great machine. Love it so far. Since we have a lot of hills, I would like to get the rear wheels spaced out a bit. The M62 must be a newer model since I cannot find anything about this out there and none of the wheel spacer sources have it in their lists. I even called Unverferth directly. They said I would have to measure it up and they would custom make some. Looking at it and measuring with my crude instruments, it appears to be an 8 bolt (lugs actually) pattern on an 8 inch circle with a 6 inch center hole. Does this happen to be the same as any other Kubotas, or other brand for that matter? If so I could simply order spacers for that model tractor. I have a set of Unverferth 6 inchers on my JD 3720. Made a whole new tractor out of it.

Thanks much.

 

[Piston]

Congrats on your new tractor (err TLB). That is a nice machine, I got a chance to operate one for a bit last month and pretty much loved it.

Regarding wheel spacers, have you looked for spacers for a Kubota M59? They should be the same part.

Also, do you have your rears filled? That would help a lot with stability, and also probably the ONE gripe I had about the M62.

I was digging out a stump and felt
that the backhoe was almost too powerful for the machine, it easily pushed the rear around. I'd think with filled rears you'd minimize this to some extent and also make it more stabile.

The one I was using also had the new cab on it so that added some weight as well. Aside from that it was pretty much my dream machine! Congrats, there is nothing else in that class of tractors.

 

[rScotty]

Wheel spacers were available at one time for the M59 back when it first came out. Kubota listed spacers and weights both - they were an accessory back in 2008 that we were considering when buying the tractor. We decided to hold off on that accessory just to see how it worked without them. Easy to add if necessary, but all things being equal there is also an advantage to narrowness and lighter weight. After all, the tractor already weighs 8000 lbs. I remember looking at a picture of the wheel spacers and noting that they were solid, only an inch or two thick, and quite heavy.
Be interesting to see if they are still available and if the M62 is the same axle.
rScotty

 

[BeaconWoods]

[/QUOTE]
Also, do you have your rears filled? That would help a lot with stability, and also probably the ONE gripe I had about the M62.
[/QUOTE]

I agree on having the rears filled. The dealer recommended I try it first without as it is a pretty heavy machine for its size. After operating a few hours I have decided I will get it done. The dealer recommended a place that uses something like windshield washer fluid because it is non corrosive. Another guy I talked with said he had his filled with beet juice. He says it weighs in at around 10 pounds per gallon while the windshield washer stuff comes in a bit over 8 and is non corrosive. I had never heard of that - might do a bit more investigating.

 

[Piston]

Another guy I talked with said he had his filled with beet juice. He says it weighs in at around 10 pounds per gallon while the windshield washer stuff comes in a bit over 8 and is non corrosive. I had never heard of that - might do a bit more investigating.

That's really common, and a trade name seems to be "Rimgard" which is what I had mine filled with about 5 or so years ago. It's also non corrosive, long lasting, doesn't freeze, and isn't an environmental hazard if the tire blows and you lose it all. A lot of people don't care about the environmental aspect of it but it was a big determining factor for me.
I believe it added 1,100lbs to my rears.

Edit: The disadvantage is that it's considerably more expensive depending on where you get it.

 

[rScotty]

[/QUOTE]
I agree on having the rears filled. The dealer recommended I try it first without as it is a pretty heavy machine for its size. After operating a few hours I have decided I will get it done. The dealer recommended a place that uses something like windshield washer fluid because it is non corrosive. Another guy I talked with said he had his filled with beet juice. He says it weighs in at around 10 pounds per gallon while the windshield washer stuff comes in a bit over 8 and is non corrosive. I had never heard of that - might do a bit more investigating.[/QUOTE]

There's always pros and cons. I'm sure there are soils and tractors that work better with the rears filled. On the M59 I prefer not to have filled tires, but that's probably because of the ground that I work in is mostly scree, sand, rock, and gravel in the mountains. Up here the working room is tight, the ground is shifty, and nothing is ever level. Having a lighter tractor is a big advantage. The M59 can work comfortably on slopes that cause the much heavier 310 to slide and could cause it to collapse an embankment.

True, there are are time s when I'm backhoeing and try something with the bucket in a way that the leverage starts to throw the tractor around...but the solution that works for me is not to fill the tires, but instead not to hoe in that manner. There's a learning curve; it's controllable. And there are times when it is handy to move the tractor around with the hoe.
YMMV,
rScotty

 

[mike69440]

I agree on having the rears filled. The dealer recommended I try it first without as it is a pretty heavy machine for its size. After operating a few hours I have decided I will get it done. The dealer recommended a place that uses something like windshield washer fluid because it is non corrosive. Another guy I talked with said he had his filled with beet juice. He says it weighs in at around 10 pounds per gallon while the windshield washer stuff comes in a bit over 8 and is non corrosive. I had never heard of that - might do a bit more investigating.[/QUOTE]

There's always pros and cons. I'm sure there are soils and tractors that work better with the rears filled. On the M59 I prefer not to have filled tires, but that's probably because of the ground that I work in is mostly scree, sand, rock, and gravel in the mountains. Up here the working room is tight, the ground is shifty, and nothing is ever level. Having a lighter tractor is a big advantage. The M59 can work comfortably on slopes that cause the much heavier 310 to slide and could cause it to collapse an embankment.

True, there are are time s when I'm backhoeing and try something with the bucket in a way that the leverage starts to throw the tractor around...but the solution that works for me is not to fill the tires, but instead not to hoe in that manner. There's a learning curve; it's controllable. And there are times when it is handy to move the tractor around with the hoe.
YMMV,
rScotty[/QUOTE]

The photos, show my weights for the L39. Two on inside or rim two on outside, for a total total #750 lbs. The Back Hoe makes it fairly easy to install and remove them.
I still can pick the tractor up with the hoe and move it around. With all the other stuff on it it is a bit over 8,000 lbs, and that is about as heavy as practical. An M59 or M62, should be kept around 10,000 lbs. Washer fluid is fine, Beet juice is not needed as tires are decent size and as said, the TLB's are heavier than the avg. Kubota.
I prefer wheel weights/ spacers over +1,000 lb filled tires.
I used carbon steel rounds, but Dura-Bar this will be cheaper, easier to have machined.
Give you business to a local machine shop. Most are hungry.
Peterson Steel - Providing Dura-Bar; Continuous Cast Iron Bar Stock Steel Alternative
PS The TLB's seem fairly stable. Plowing my icy drive, I slid over a 4' embankment. Without the weights and addition wheel spacing it would have gone over, but the slope was at least 45 degrees, and it did not roll.(thankfully)'

 

[JWR]

The M62 being typically a backhoe flavor tractor, I'm a little surprised you plan using it on steep ground. "Steep" is of course very relative. I operate mainly in WV among places I never go because of steepness. On a MF2660 low profile specifically aimed (by me) at use on steep ground I keep my rear tires 8ft apart at outer edges but could go another foot if I had to. No spacers involved. Doing so would give me more margin on very steep slopes but also preclude hauling on most trailers, etc. I find the 8ft spacing a good compromise. Depends a LOT on your cg and how low to the ground the whole machine is. As a rough rule of thumb, I say make your outer rear tire edges 4 times the amount of your PTO off the ground. That puts you in a far more stable situation than anything Kubota delivers new. Also what do you want to do on steeper ground -- bush hog ? On smaller B2150 Kubotas I have put on 6" spacers each side made by Bora which work perfectly and made a total daylight/dark difference between going on steeper ground at all or not. I consider 40% slope to be comfortable steep, anything less than that not steep at all and anything above 50% not worth risking my life and machinery to mess with.
Bora sold me an excellent product for wheel spacers. If they do not yet have a model for the M62 I'll bet they would make you a set and add it to their line. They are solid chunk machined aluminum. Others are made of welded steel tubes between 2 outer plates and friends of mine have that type on an L3400. They also use solid alum spacers on an M6040. All work very well. In the 3 cases I am first-hand familiar with, all add 6" per side or 1ft increased spacing. I hear Bro-tek and Hansen are good as well as the Bora units I own. I found Unverferth willing to make me a set for $572 per wheel which I found absurdly high. For some reason the Orange marketeers and the Japanese just do not understand we have some steep land in the USA. Good luck with your choice.

 

[BeaconWoods]

That's a major load of rocks in that bucket. Yikes!

Anyone know for sure whether the M59 and M62 have the same bolt / hub size and pattern on the rears? I am guessing that the search for spacers for the M59 will be a lot more fruitful since it has been around a while.

Thanks.

 

[Wormwood]

I have 2" spacers on my M62, night & day difference on stability. Adding fluid in the tires, half full is good & it really can stick to the ground on a hill so long as you don't lift the bucket. Drop the backhoe & put on a batwing & it oddly sticks to the hillside. The only thing I can conclude is the engine compartment & subframe are lower than what the tractor appears to be. Yes the M59 & M62 have the same bolt pattern according to the spacers I bought.

It's A LOT of work putting spacers on!!

 

[Wormwood]

Oh & regarding the stability of the M62... If you get a chance where you can safely test the stability to the limits, write-off the day & spend some time with rigging, straps, & clevis', you'll be glad you did... we happened to get the backhoe stuck on the side of a slope we had been grading with a Kumatsu, a water truck we were using had some leaks in the tank & by the time we realized it the M62 was in mud pit on the side of the hill, no matter which direction we went in the M62 the angle only got steeper as we moved. So we secured the M62 to the dozer which was uphill on solid ground & we began to claw the backhoe out be itself. It was extremely uncomfortable to sit in the seat & always felt like it was about to tip over, however standing back looking at the M62 it never looked as though it was close to tipping over. These days with the spacers installed I'm a lot less concerned about it's stability & have stopped sucking the upholstery up my butt.

The outriggers are another story, they're about 6" too short. My example is with a full bucket extended out & start swinging it to the side you will tip over (at least until the bucket hits the ground) before you get to the limits of your swing cylinder.

I have an extra set of rear tires, with the idea of making twin tires for the rear. I still might at some point but the spacers & the understanding of how stable the backhoe really is, I put the idea on the backburner for now....

 

[JWR]

Plowing my icy drive, I slid over a 4' embankment. Without the weights and addition wheel spacing it would have gone over, but the slope was at least 45 degrees, and it did not roll.(thankfully)'

45 degrees or 45% slope ? Dozers get away with 45 degrees at times. Wheeled tractors do not.

 

[rScotty]

The outriggers are another story, they're about 6" too short. My example is with a full bucket extended out & start swinging it to the side you will tip over (at least until the bucket hits the ground) before you get to the limits of your swing cylinder.

With which size bucket? The M59 won't quite tip over and touch the bucket down in that configuration you describe, but it does get real light on it's feet. It also is little bit base-narrow on the outriggers at full rise. So I think the M59 could use slightly longer outriggers itself. They aren't absolutely necessary, but like a higher operator's seat, and moving the parking brake over to the right hand side, these are all simple mods that would cost nothing and make a huge difference.

Hmm.....I wonder if the M59 and M62 have the same outriggers? It would make sense that the M62 would have slightly longer outriggers....after all, it has the longer reach.
rScotty

 

[Wormwood]

An 18" bucket filled with red clay dirt, not completely extended boom about 6-7' above the ground & the bucket almost fully curled. Swing the bucket & you'll feel it getting light on the opposite outrigger, sort telegraphing that it's about to tip over.

I'm not sure if the 59 & 62 have the same outriggers, I've considered extending them about 6" but just haven't had the time or all the equipment under the same roof when the thought was bouncing around in my head...

Oh on the power or lack of it when trying to lift the back end with the bucket, has anyone considered converting over to flat faced hydraulic quick connectors? Dunno two inlets & one outlets seems like they fight over the return from time to time.

Wormwood

 

[BeaconWoods]

Thanks for the response. Much appreciated. Where did you get the spacers? Handy having the backhoe stabilizers to pick the thing up. My hope is to get the tires filled at the same time as I add the spacers, so they only have to be removed once.

Is two inches enough extra width? Would you go more if wider ones were available?

Thanks again.

 

[JWR]

Thanks for the response. Much appreciated. Where did you get the spacers? Handy having the backhoe stabilizers to pick the thing up. My hope is to get the tires filled at the same time as I add the spacers, so they only have to be removed once.

Is two inches enough extra width? Would you go more if wider ones were available?

Thanks again.

Depends on where you plan to operate. I use 6" spacers on my B2150 and they made a huge difference for mowing steep ground (made it possible versus very unsafe..) but watch out for limitations -- your tires may be in the way of something else depending on how far you move them out. For example I cannot use the belly mower with my 6" spacers because the rear tires will no longer clear the mid-mount mower deck. With a back hoe type machine you might have other restrictions, hard for me to picture. I ordered my spacers from Bora and consider them to be excellent quality and fit. They have every little thing figured out for compatibility. See post #8.

 

[mike69440]

It's A LOT of work putting spacers on!!

View attachment 513129View attachment 513130View attachment 513129View attachment 513130[/QUOTE]

Maybe not a cinch, but to poor guys without a BH and stabilizers, now that's a LOT of work! Pick up the machine with the hoe and crab it to the tire or put the tire on a mover's dolly on hard cement pavement next time. Work smart, not hard.

Width and wheel weights make all the difference.

 

[Wormwood]

Thanks for the response. Much appreciated. Where did you get the spacers? Handy having the backhoe stabilizers to pick the thing up. My hope is to get the tires filled at the same time as I add the spacers, so they only have to be removed once.

Is two inches enough extra width? Would you go more if wider ones were available?

Thanks again.

Richard @ Bro-tek is where I bought mine, they were $450 delivered for the pair, it includes a set of lug nuts & lug bolts. Which brings ups a point, each OEM threaded stud & nut from Kubota is $60 & my first install with an impact driver I boogered up 3 or so threaded studs & nuts. the spacers are aluminum, 2" thick & due to the size of the OEM lug nut it sorta limits you on how you can installl. The hardware from Bro-tek is high grade so you can use anywhere on the installation. My problem was after my 1st install I was running minus 2 lug nuts & a couple more were seized. So my second install I removed all the threaded studs & replaced with Bro-tek's lug bolts, these hold the spacer to the hub, then I used the OEM lug nuts to fasten the wheel to the spacer. This was a lot of work using a 3/4" drive manually, I wouldn't use an impact unless you have extra hardware for the ones that get boogered up.


Is 2" enough extra width? That's subjective but by design the seating position makes it VERY uncomfortable to drive over the slightest grades versus a traditional tractor with the seat tucked down in between the rear wheels. So your perception is that you're going to tip over. My suggestion is to setup a situation where you can safely test the stability of the backhoe. Two things will become apparent, you feel like you're going to tip over way before the backhoe becomes unstable, two, the distance between the seat & the center of rotation is far enough that you can be slung out of the seat without at the backhoe even tipping over, if you did tip over, I'd be more concerned about hitting the roof than the ground. More like a catapult than anything else.

As I understand everything, spacers effectively lower the center of rotation but at the expense of the distance to the seat. While it does increase the stability of the tractor from tipping over it also increases the overall force the body would experience if you did tip over. So if your activity leaves any room for doubt, where that belt.

Hope this help...

Wormwood

 

[mike69440]

Kubota can keep their $60 studs. My time is not that valuable that i could not find the same with a tape measure, thread gage and a wi fi Connection.
PS, my weights spacers only add 1" each side and if I had to do it again would make them 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" to increase track 3" total, so 2" spacer is plenty. More stresses axle and bearings.

 

[RedNeckGeek]

I have 2" spacers on my M62, night & day difference on stability. Adding fluid in the tires, half full is good & it really can stick to the ground on a hill so long as you don't lift the bucket. Drop the backhoe & put on a batwing & it oddly sticks to the hillside. The only thing I can conclude is the engine compartment & subframe are lower than what the tractor appears to be. Yes the M59 & M62 have the same bolt pattern according to the spacers I bought.

It's A LOT of work putting spacers on!!

Curious if you've experienced any cracking or bearing failures in the hubs/wheels/transmission cases that is linked to the spacers?

I'm in the same situation as most of you, dealing with a tippy tractor (M62) on steep hills.