Current on a 12 gauge wire

[3Ts]

Yes, the OP is still here and following all the responses. I will need to draw y'all a circuit diagram to help explain it better, but in the mean time, I talked to be builder and we have an answer and a solution, it'll be fine. 1st, Part of the problem is that english is not the electrician's first language. 2nd, all the circuits on the island are 120 volts 20 amps. 3rd, there are 3 circuits on the island and only 2 circuit breakers and the circuit breakers are not tied together. 4th, there are (2) 12/3 romex to the island. 5th, there are no red wires going to the main breaker panel. 6th, the 10 gauge wire on the 40 amp breaker - he didn't have a 30 amp breaker in the truck.

Let me figure out how to get the diagram posted - it will help explain a lot!

 

[Larry Caldwell]

And an anti-oxidant such as GB's Ox-Guard is used on aluminum wire connections.

And all devices have to be Cu/Al rated. Most are any more. Recycling old fixtures and breakers is sometimes problematic. I had to repair my well pump wiring because the original installation ran copper in the house, then put the cu-al transition under a wire nut when it went underground.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Yes, the OP is still here and following all the responses. I will need to draw y'all a circuit diagram to help explain it better, but in the mean time, I talked to be builder and we have an answer and a solution, it'll be fine. 1st, Part of the problem is that english is not the electrician's first language. 2nd, all the circuits on the island are 120 volts 20 amps. 3rd, there are 3 circuits on the island and only 2 circuit breakers and the circuit breakers are not tied together. 4th, there are (2) 12/3 romex to the island. 5th, there are no red wires going to the main breaker panel. 6th, the 10 gauge wire on the 40 amp breaker - he didn't have a 30 amp breaker in the truck.

Let me figure out how to get the diagram posted - it will help explain a lot!

I remodeled for years, and was always being faced with a panel full of unlabeled breakers. My normal way of locating the correct breaker was just to short across a receptacle with a plastic handled screwdriver. One day I did that and the resulting arc burned the screwdriver shank in half. I guess they didn't have a 20 amp breaker in the truck, so they used a 50 amp breaker for 12 gauge wire. This was in a doctor's office, BTW. We fixed that.

 

[woody]

You can look alot of stuff up. But lots of little stuff too Like noloax on alumium, or wrapping wire correctly around screw. Little stuff like that, I suspect slips past many self taught folks.


Old saying, you can turn an electrician into a plumber, but not a plumber into an electrician.

That reminded me just last summer a lady told me she had some wall plugs that would not work, so I went and took a look after finding a bad connection in the attic and repairing it I climb down and she asked what was wrong? I told her she had a left handed person wire her house she looks at her son and they both have this funny look on their face then they say almost at the same time he was left handed but how did you know? I just laughed he had twisted the wires counter clockwise then put on a wire nut which basically untwisted the wire, but it had work for about 20 years. I was making a joke and coincidentally he was.

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Yes, the OP is still here and following all the responses. I will need to draw y'all a circuit diagram to help explain it better, but in the mean time, I talked to be builder and we have an answer and a solution, it'll be fine. 1st, Part of the problem is that english is not the electrician's first language. 2nd, all the circuits on the island are 120 volts 20 amps. 3rd, there are 3 circuits on the island and only 2 circuit breakers and the circuit breakers are not tied together. 4th, there are (2) 12/3 romex to the island. 5th, there are no red wires going to the main breaker panel. 6th, the 10 gauge wire on the 40 amp breaker - he didn't have a 30 amp breaker in the truck.

Let me figure out how to get the diagram posted - it will help explain a lot!

In other words, it's a mess and you need a new electrician.

 

[mbohuntr]

In other words, it's a mess and you need a new electrician.

I would at the minimum have a qualified electrician look at that, there are a couple of red flags that need to be looked at.

 

[3Ts]

Here's the diagram



The 12/3 romex runs to a junction box in the attic. The 12/2 wire from the breaker panel runs to the same junction box. So, here's what's going to happen: One of the 120v 20a breakers will be removed and replaced with a 240v 20a breaker and one of the 12/3 romex will be extended to the breaker panel. That will handle the dishwasher and the 120v water heater. The other 120v 20a breaker will remain and be connected to the black wire on the 2nd romex to power the outlets on the island and there is a switch on the island to control the lights over the island. The red wire will run from the switch back to the lights over the island.

And I agree, it all needs to be checked by an independent inspector.

 

[ray66v]

But you have no reason why, you just have an opinion.

BTW those are not telephone poles. Though I realize it is a common term for folks to use.

I'm not giving a deposition, nor have I tried to convince anyone to stop using aluminum wire. So, I don't have to give you my reasons.

 

[Zerk]

We like Laws just fine, we just don't need big brother looking after our every need. Besides, you think an inspector really knows what they are looking at?

You took it the wrong way.

Texas has way to many laws for me. Way to much government for me, and the heat, and it gets sorta Biblical. Way to much big brother. You just don't know, cause you don't get out of Texas.

 

[Zerk]

Ye 1st, Part of the problem is that english is not the electrician's first language. t!

I realize you are in little Mexico, but can't you find an American to do electrical work? Illegals for carprentary is probably fine.

There are big cities in Mexico, who I am sure have qualified electricians, who may be working off NEC rules. It is used all over. I realize being in Texas, maybe you ain't got a choice. But I'll run aluminum, use 1 less breaker, before I hire an electrician that does not speak english.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Glad the op got a resolution. Don't know why people get their nose out of joint on electrical threads. Wish tbn was like in the old days when moderators would trim those that just cause problems.

 

[Zerk]

I'm not giving a deposition, nor have I tried to convince anyone to stop using aluminum wire. So, I don't have to give you my reasons.

Yep, that is what I thought.

 

[Zerk]

Glad the op got a resolution. Don't know why people get their nose out of joint on electrical threads. Wish tbn was like in the old days when moderators would trim those that just cause problems.

Teacher, teacher.

Problem I see these days, are lack of men. Those are the good old days I miss.


Problem with electrical, as this thread demonstrates, is it is beyond money, and they have misinformed opinions. I suppose you would like the people correcting them to be removed?

Should we remove people who say aluminum wire is used all over?

How about you can run 100% if not for 3 hours? Remove the people that tell you that?

 

[Zerk]

Here's the diagram

View attachment 511498

: One of the 120v 20a breakers will be removed and replaced with a 240v 20a breaker and one of the 12/3 romex will be extended to the breaker panel. That will handle the dishwasher and the 120v water heater. The other 120v 20a breaker
And I agree, it all needs to be checked by an independent inspector.

I probably need to re-read, and missing it. But why are you replacing with a 240 breaker, if both loads are 120?

 

[Deere Dude]

Illegals for carprentary is probably fine.

There are big cities in Mexico, who I am sure have qualified electricians, who may be working off NEC rules. It is used all over. I realize being in Texas, maybe you ain't got a choice. But I'll run aluminum, use 1 less breaker, before I hire an electrician that does not speak english.

May it was a fluke but 20 years ago we took a vacation to Cancun. We walked the streets and I couldn't believe the number of very obvious electrical screw-ups I saw and I am not an electrician. From bare wires hanging out of boxes on the sidewalks to covers off of control panels on sides of houses. It just amazed me how shoddy workmanship was in a big town. They may have some real electricians but not where I was looking.

Of course I live in Tennessee and I some some jim-dandy stuff here also, so maybe a qualified electrician is a roll of the dice.

PS Check for a green card.

 

[Zerk]

M

PS Check for a green card.

Come one, he is in Texas. We both know he doesn't want to check for a green card.

As conservative as they say they are, I suspect they are huge part of the problem. Up here tons of them are milking.

 

[mbohuntr]

I probably need to re-read, and missing it. But why are you replacing with a 240 breaker, if both loads are 120?

Each leg of breaker is 120, serving same purpose as tie handle.

 

[Zerk]

Ok, this is because sharing neutral.


Reading up, code changed in 2008 to require a tie between the 2 circuits. Probably a good idea. I am not sure if I have shared a neutral in a long time. Most of the stuff I do is single point, or wiring a garage that would have panel or a sub panel.


I had not heard of using a 2 pole breaker, but I guess it is the same idea. Given so, no need to be scared of a string.

If you lose the neutral, you could potentialy have 240.


Myself, small subpanels have gotten very cheap. But the problem is a homeowner may not understand these. Circuit trips in sub panel, and they con't know it is there, everything fine in main. I have heard of this happening. Good labels help.

It does have me thinking, if I have any work out there, that has shared neutral.

12/14-3 is alot more common than 4 conductor. I suspect lots of places have, you pull 12-3, one for lights, one for power. Alot of them do not have tied handles. But it is a good idea.