Snow Attachments Snow PUMP

[aczlan]

Why is everyone else using 20-25hp to do the job while the guy in this thread thinks he needs 150hp to do the job? He had his first blower and used a certain horsepower, so I am not doubting he thinks he needs more, but why so much compared to everyone else's setup?

Because he wants to be able to do this at 10 miles an hour whereas everybody else is creeping along at 2 to 5.

Aaron Z

 

[pmsmechanic]

Why is everyone else using 20-25hp to do the job while the guy in this thread thinks he needs 150hp to do the job? He had his first blower and used a certain horsepower, so I am not doubting he thinks he needs more, but why so much compared to everyone else's setup?

Read post number 68. The op wants to move snow more than just a few feet. In some of the first posts if I remember he was talking about 100 feet. That takes horsepower.

 

[dnw64]

Because he wants to be able to do this at 10 miles an hour whereas everybody else is creeping along at 2 to 5.

Aaron Z

AND to throw it 100' plus. If y0u ever studied physics you'd realize that 20-25 hp is like a drop (ok. maybe 2-3 drops) in the bucket.

OTOH, what he needs is a piece of airport equipment, but he (like me and most others) can't afford it. So he's trying to come up with the next best thing. Or, better yet, the same thing but at a far lower cost.

I think his goals are just beyond realistic, but applaud him for trying. If everyone always tried for "good enough" we'd still be speaking British.

 

[Redneck in training]

Why is everyone else using 20-25hp to do the job while the guy in this thread thinks he needs 150hp to do the job? He had his first blower and used a certain horsepower, so I am not doubting he thinks he needs more, but why so much compared to everyone else's setup?

Iy all boil down to mass flow of snow you have to clear and the distance yoi want to throw it. As you increase the speed (mass flow is prortional to speed) and distance (double the distance require qudruple of the power) the power required to do the job escalates very fast.

 

[franklin2]

I wonder if this is going to require a "out of the box" engineering solution.

In a normal blower the auger gathers the snow and feeds the fan. The fan clears the auger and blows it through a chute to the side. What if a person had two fans? A conventional auger and conventional fan requiring the normal amount of power to do their job, and then another fan beside the regular fan, turning much faster, and all it does is suck air. It blows air through the chute at a high velocity, and the chute from the conventional setup blows into the high velocity air chute. The higher velocity chute would act like a venturi (a sandblaster gun if you will), the snow would mix with the higher velocity air and be thrown farther.

Not thrashing the snow around in the conventional blower at a high speed might require less horsepower.

 

[leonz]

For all the work he is doing a surplus airport snow blower from Wengers of Myerstown, PA.,
is the only way he is going to get the production he needs or wants.

Your dealing with torque and the lack of it and the Russians use surplus jet engines mounted on tanks and the railways that have them use surplus jet engines mounted on self propelled Maintenance Of Way "MOW" equipment.

Wanting to travel at a ten miles per hour travel speed while clearing hundreds of tons of snow a minute requires power and more power as your dealing with snow pack and it can weigh 270 to 810 pounds or more per cubic yard and freeze thaw cycles that let the snow pack become more dense.

This is why you see snow clearing machines with 2 motors one for the drive system and a second for the snow clearing head.


The modern Beilhack railway snow clearer has 3 V 12 Mercedes Benz Turbocharged and aftercooled diesel engines, one engine for each SINGLE STAGE snow clearing head and the third engine for the two 2-axle railroad trucks that provides power to each of the 4 axles.

The other issue is the two stage snow clearing systems are very inefficient in delivering power to the task as they are competing for sales under the low bidder system to municipalities.

The reason above is why the former Beilhack Company developed its single stage snow clearing head system which works very well.

 

[KWentling]

You might look into the clutch housings as used on irrigation engines. I know they make them for PTO shaft drives and would expect they have them for belt drive also. That would give you a set up that could take the side pull of belts. Lots of 6BTs are used for irrigation, so you might find one used.

 

[pmsmechanic]

OK I sent these from my phone and I'll edit them on my laptop because that's just easier.

The first picture shows an adaptor and bell housing from a wreaked Chrysler 727 transmission. Notice the starter bolts and the 8 holes where it bolts onto the engine. I noticed that the Cummins you have still has this adaptor installed. They come in different configurations for different transmissions and flywheels. Notice how much narrower it is than the picture of the SAE housing I posted in post #108.

The second picture is of the pump housing of the 727. This would be really easy to machine out for a support bearing for an output shaft.

The third picture shows the transmission case from the side. It would be easy enough to modify the case so that you can run a belt if you end up going that way.

Also manual transmissions have a similar setup only they have room for a clutch inside.

 

[fitterski]

I don't get this, AGAIN I missed out on the email alerts and I think I know what the PROBLEM is. I don't get an alert for every response nor do I get a a second one until I visit the forum again. So if I decide to not respond right-away to a message then a whole lineup goes by without me knowing it.

Sooooo, here goes another one of my catchup lists, sorry about the inconveniance

#126 bigdeano
Covered already, I can put the rad anywhere I like. There's no way for me to say at this point where to pass it, the only way to know will be when the vehicle is stripped and the build starts.

127 aczlan
The headlight area is like the radiator area, both may be too high. Initially at least, in the case of an internal drive-shaft, I would attempt to hit the center of the fan without gearing at that level i.e. a maximum of 26 +/- inches from ground. The other solution would be as someone else here has also pointed out to pass the drives-haft externally on the right side and then bring it back in at the blower.

#128 KubotainNH
I'll be lucky if I can find a rustfree k3500 around here. It so happens that I will be 'seeking reception' before his hifgness, a local truck god who at 83 is still doing snow contracts in the back hills )) HE, the story goes, will enlighten me about why the second-half of the 90's was and remains the LAST episode from which to own ANY truck at all!!! I'll know a lot more when he gets done with my brain sometime within a month.


#129 dnw64
Valiant effort, nice rig too, but that's 2mph in powderpuff. What I'm talking about can be anything between that, through wet slush, and what we have right now for over a month: hard drifts that you can walk on and sometimes even drive a few feet on top of without sinking in and in 4" inches of which my Tundra becomes still life for an art class while the 65hp Deuts 4-holer stalls unless I too slow to 2mph.

#133 dnw64
The three story big rigs are not really in my budget but that's not the point, I don't want one. Having omne inmy yard would totally ruin the landscape. The retail market is built on hype and underperformance (what else is new). Except fopr two models that I'm keeping eyeballs on most cannot even throw wet snow to the side of the road but most cost several thousand dollars, my budget for the whole project. I can more than cook up what I need, but it takes a lot of prep and research. NOT a problem, what with all the expertise around here :dance1: What I'm after is no bigger than it needs to be, is fast, agile, turnkey, near failsafe, slipper/pajamas/coffee-in-hand while it thrown mailboxes to the next county. Like I said: NOT a problem but it does require a mean streak

#135 franklin2
Those are multi-stage blowers and big versions do exist mostly because at a certain point you simply run out of sensible horsepower. For a DIY they are too complicated to build. My needs still fall within the scope of the Harley Davison philosophy: 'if it brakes make it stronger, if it sticks out chrome it'. There's still lots of horse power around and using two engines would be simpler. But I won't need that.


#136 leonz
A dedicated blower engine allowing you to drive at the speed you want while blowing with another engine is a heavensend. I will never again put up with anything less.


#137 KWentling
Irigation belt drives eh? That does sound like it has potential, bookmarked & thanks!


#138 pmsmechanic
Did you get my email? I'll revisit his topic in due time but if I use a transmission it's likely to be a manual, my ideas for an automatic have pretty well been shot down in flames here. If I use a transmission then the stock front and mid-side mount will be ok but if i use belts then I gotta have side-supports right there at he flywheel. I'm not sure if I would have the guts to start chopping an aluminum housing but for a belt, if I cannot find an industrial adaptor with side support provisions, I thought of a 7/16" adaptor plate cut out as a ring and snuk in under the flywheel adaptor using longer bolts, and on the sides forming two supports. It would in effect be a single mount with two side attachment points to the frame. I did something vaguely similar with the Deutz front end for increased stability and safety.



That's it I'm pooped already..

 

[pmsmechanic]

Yes fitterski I got your email. You indicated that you weren't in too much of a rush so I never got to excited about it. I'll answer you back yet.

Your idea for a 7/16" adaptor will work but you can't put it between the adaptor plate and the engine. It'll move the relationship of the starter to the flywheel. Just bolt it onto the adaptor.

I just posted the pictures of the various bell housing arrangements so that you and others could see that there are different options when it comes to a Cummins.

There are several different automatics from through the years. Automotive manuals include a Getrag on the 1st gens. Then came the New Process 4500 and 5600. The last one is a Mercedes G-56.

The adaptor/bellhousing assembly I posted in post #108 is to install an Eaton/Fuller roadranger style transmission behind a Cummins. Actually Allison automatics out of a larger truck could also be installed with the same bellhousing as it has an SAE 2 or 3 flange. I don't remember which. As soon as you have an SAE flange then anything with a corresponding flange can be made to work. Your options then are just about unlimited.