Snow Attachments Snow PUMP

[fitterski]

I have this project and am starting to get dizzy trying to keep up with all the different threads on different forums according to the subsystem involved. I will attempt to concentrate the general topic to this appropriate forum.

The initial project now serving it's 8th season:

Deutz powered JD Snow Blower from Hell 29 - YouTube
http://trixtar.org/3/tinkerings/blower/blower.html

The next "wide-open" upgrade in the oven, for now just
a doodle-sheet:

http://trixtar.org/3/tinkerings/blower2/blower2.html

I've already sprayed articles into 2 other forums about it, for those who might wanna get spooled up. The general objective is to blow snow at a higher speed and farther, much higher and much farther, to leave power-margin for tons of soaking wet slush.

 

[leonz]

I give you high marks for using the 4 cylinder air cooled Duetz engine, The paint job UGH, you should have kept it grey.

You should spend your money on building a single stage snow clearer using the Duetz engine and buying a couple of surplus scrapped conveyor pulleys and welding flighting to it to create a single stage snow clearer. If you want to see a kick *** single stage snow caster look at AEBI and WESTA snow blowers to see simplicity and power as they use a right angle one to one gearbox.

You can add a slip clutch on the gearbox end and have a snow caster that will rotate twice as fast with great power and throw the snow much further than you do now.

 

[Egon]

Higher, farther, faster; just requires a faster turning blower and lots more HP. The sise of the discharge will dictate the HP.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

That Deer 270 was made by McKee and is their 720 model. McKee made blowers for Deer, New Idea, and others. They made variants too. I saw a McKee 720 with motor made by McKee for wheel loaders sell at an action.

 

[fitterski]

That Deer 270 was made by McKee and is there 720 model. McKee made blowers for Deer, New Idea, and others. They made variants too. I saw a McKee 720 with motor made by McKee for wheel loaders sell at an action.

i bought it used and unless i'm mistaken it was part of a 'kit' by JD, the owner wanted to keep the tractor part. I knew absolutely nothing about blowers then, the biggest i'd ever had was a honda

 

[fitterski]

Higher, farther, faster; just requires a faster turning blower and lots more HP. The sise of the discharge will dictate the HP.

yeh ok, i buy that, xcept i'd rather see the HP dictate the size

i CANNOT have a snowbank if i want nature to keep my convex road clear, that's why i have to blow it all over to the second neighbor so he'll think it was the first one

 

[fitterski]

I give you high marks for using the 4 cylinder air cooled Duetz engine, The paint job UGH,
you should have kept it grey.

You should spend your money on building a single stage snow clearer using the Duetz Engine and buying couple of surplus scrapped conveyor pulleys and welding flighting to it to create a single stage snow clearer. If you want to see a kick *** single stage snow caster look at AEBI and WESTA snow blowers to see simplicity and power as
they use a right angle one to one gearbox.

You can add a slip clutch on the gearbox end and have a snow caster that will rotate twice as fast with great power and throw the snow much further than you do now.

it WAS yellow when i bought it, see the vid. This engine is underpowered for my needs, plus i can sell it any day for a good price so it would offset any new expenses. As far as the single-stage, it's on the table, i ain't said no to the idea yet.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

i bought it used and unless i'm mistaken it was part of a 'kit' by JD, the owner wanted to keep the tractor part. I knew absolutely nothing about blowers then, the biggest i'd ever had was a honda

I have a McKee 720. Since McKee has been out of business, I found a Deer 270 service manual on eBay so I knew what part numbers to cross-reference for my McKee blower.

Here is a McKee 720 blower fitting with an engine for wheel loaders. McKee 72 Snow Blower For Sale | AgDealer.com

 

[fitterski]

I have a McKee 720. Since McKee has been out of business, I found a Deer 270 service manual on eBay so I knew what part numbers to cross-reference for my McKee blower.

I can roll my own now, I'll just buy a ready-made auger when all else is done, the fan I'll just copy-and-resize from the two that I have evaluated as being the best sofar. If either one has the size I want then I'll buy that.

 

[fitterski]

You have three threads about this project, thats make it hard to follow. I looked at your backhoe blower video. The little deutz engine ...

I know the 3 threads are a PITA, I'm migrating what I can here to the Snow Removal forum which is what I shudda done in the first place! 72 hp @ 2250 is what I get outta my deutz, the reduction being 2.5:1 that puts around 370 ft-lbs of torque into the fan. And THAT is GROSSLY INADEQUATE. That's the reason I'm thinking of redoing the beast. My road is 2200 feet long, raised some 2-3 feet and convex which means that so longs as I build NO snow-banks on the sides the wind keeps it clear. For this I have to toss a minimum of 100 feet to the side but to do that with less than dry snow I really have to aim for 200. I can do about 50-60 now, downwind I get 100, wet snow I do 20 and use words you don't wanna hear.

The machine AND myself are doing this for the 8th season now. I know exactly what I need. What I do not know yet is how to get there without overspending while getting a FAR better rig into the fight. I just tested my little calculator to update my very dynamic doodle page with some VmMotori data.

http://trixtar.org/3/tinkerings/blower2/blower2.html

That v6 diesel reduced the same 2.5:1 would give me about 800 ft-lbs, which I consider the minimum or the whole project ain't worth bothering with. And while those engines are just beginning to arrive into the scrap yards I'm actually aiming for over 1200 ft-lbs, cost and opportunity will play the cards. I intend to improve my calculator and use it a L O T before I spend one penny. When I was planning the existing rig in 2009 it didn't become the resounding success it did because I'm that smart but because I spent many a long night on the Gates belt simulator, not long hours, long NIGHTS. At this stage I'm only scratching the surface, kinda like when you walk through the gate of a scrapyard, not knowing what you'll find.

I have to learn and know ALL there is to know while waiting for deals. Example: A Duramax good runner goes for 4k, a tranny with it another 700. The other day I found a pair with only 60k miles for $2000, AND when the deal got closed I got the WHOLE truck for another $200 plus $500 shipping, like new. The bugger then found a ready cash client on-site and I was out of it. It's OK, I can be patient. $10k pumps sometimes are had for 1/5 that.

Leaving some margin if I used 65hp from my deutz at 2000rpm I would need a 2.6 cu-in pump @5000psi. All these #'s are ballpark. I'd need a 7.5 cu-in motor at 700 delivering maybe 500 torque, hardly more than what I'm getting now.

Back to the controls, I'll get what I want it's no rocket science, it's just I have to explore different topics that I've never seen before ..like anything hydraulic.

 

[fitterski]

Maybe I am missing something but why bother to vary the blower speed at all? Why not vary the travel speed to match the loading? Having the blower turn fast with a light load would be much more efficient than using variable speed hydraulic pumps, motors and their controls.

Dry snow blows good within a certain tip-speed range, too fast and it becomes trying to hit a feather with a baseball bat. Wet snow goes nowhere, sometime LITERALY nowhere, at the same speed so for such times being able to sling it better with up to a 30% spoolup helps. On the top end too fast means a catastrophe if the auger ingests a mailbox, and the time between passing fan blades leaves no room for the snow to fall into the fan.

 

[fitterski]

For Rexroth do a search for RE92003. That is the data sheet for the Rexroth A4VG closed loop pump. The control you are looking for is called "DA" This data sheet explains it much better than I can. We will Gladly help you spend your money.

Thanks, but I don't spend that easy

I see they have a nice range too for my somewhere between 3 and 8 cu-in future needs

 

[fitterski]

I give you high marks for using the 4 cylinder air cooled Duetz engine...........

At that time the diesel with the longest run in history was in some Quebec wildlife park on a genset, not having been stopped for over 45,000 hours. I lost track of it since. They are very expensive though, look for deals, I found one, but new part costs re out of this world. Not wanting to plug them, I still have to add this: we in NA creatyed all these pollution standards to fence iout the 'foreigners', these norms now require our homegrown diesels to mix urea in, the ONLY one that doesn't need any is Deutz :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing: As for winter starting: NO plugs, NO ether, NO toaster, NO block heater ...-30c second turn it fires. Amaazing! In my Cat it's a Perkins, forgetitt!!!!!!

 

[franklin2]

This Schmidt company makes some serious blowers. I am not sure if you can buy them over here though.

Schmidt Snow Cutter Blowers - YouTube

P.S. I would not worry about the other threads, you didn't make in headway in any of them that I have seen.

 

[muddstopper]

Not ever having a need for a snow blower, I know very little about one. I know I would be of very little help trying to design something I know nothing about. Having a thread spread over 3 different forums doesnt help. I got tired of going back and forth checking whats been said pretty quick. With that said, there are a few things one needs to know to design or build anything. Number one, what is the budget. You can design a million dollar machine, but if you aint got $10 in your pocket, whats the point. Number 2, you have a blower that works but are just wanting to improve performance. I aint going to research threads to see what you have posted already, so having all that information in one place might get you a few more replies and maybe a little more help. A few things to talk about is what size is the blower fan and how is it designed. How many blades are on it. To get more distance, you might just need to add a extra fan blade or two. Dia of the fan and rpms it turns will give you tip speed. It could be you just need to increase the dia of the fan to get more air flowing. I am just pulling off what little I know about straw blowers and track brooms, but I suspect blowing snow would be similar in function and I dont think it takes all that much hp to make things work. A 25hp straw blower will blow straw 100ft. Is snow harder to blow than straw, dang if i know.

 

[fitterski]

This Schmidt company makes some serious blowers. I am not sure if you can buy them over here though.

Schmidt Snow Cutter Blowers - YouTube


P.S. I would not worry about the other threads, you didn't make in headway in any of them that I have seen.

Those cost more than my house, MY budget at the outside is a few thousand bucks and almost akll of that for raw materials or used gear :laughing:

 

[fitterski]

Not ever having a need for a snow blower......A 25hp straw blower will blow straw 100ft. Is snow harder to blow than straw, dang if i know.

It varies a L O T. Sorry about the thread-spread, I already hate web hosted forums as opposed to neatly threaded newsgroups and to make things worse I have a truly multi-discipline topic. The current rig cost me around 10 grand including lotsa tools, this next one should be less than half that (famous last words). My way is to research the entire spectrum and then decide which way. The industrial blowers bigger than my house are off limits not only because of cost but also because I don't want one. AS for 10 thousand dollar hydraulic pumps I might just pick one up for one for one thousand next week so those also get onto the table Abd often researching something you start with more capacity which later gets trimmed back so that 10 thousand dollar pump becomes a 2 thousand one picked at an auction for a hundred.

 

[hawkeye08]

Reading through this, I started thinking, are dry snow and wet snow enough different that you need different fan for each? or is it simply a different fan speed that would allow you to blow both effectively.

If you are using a hydraulic motor, can you vary the speed? If you slow the fan down, will the auger be too slow? Perhaps you need two hydraulic motors, one on auger, one for fan and figure out the right speeds for the conditions.

Maybe ground speed determines auger speed while type of snow determines fan speed??

Just thinking outloud.. wishing you the best.

 

[aczlan]

What is your current blower fan RPM? If you are using what used to be a 540RPM PTO blower, I would aim for 600-800RPM on the blower.

How much clearance is there between the fan and the outside of the fan housing? If there is more than 1/4", I would add HDPE sheets to close up the tolerances on the fan to the point where it will pickup a dime that you set in the bottom of the fan.

Here is what I did on our 7' Loftness blower (which runs on the front of the tractor from the rear PTO via a pair of gearboxes and a long PTO shaft):


At the closest point, the HDPE on the blower fins just brushes the HDPE that goes around the outside of the drum.
The other thing I would look into doing is to add a drum eject to your current snowblower such as this one ( http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/snow-removal/332389-drum-eject-snow-blowers.html ):

They are supposed to be more efficient at throwing lots of snow out at the cost of only being able to blow it out to one side or the other.

Aaron Z

 

[muddstopper]

Looking at some of the skidsteer blowers. It seems a 84in one with 50gpm@4500psi is about the largest one I could find. Going back to what I first suggested about using hydraulics,50 gpm@4500psi is going to take about a 145hp engine to pull the pump. If you go with a 12cuin hyd motor, you should be able to get about 963 rpms at 131hp and 716ftlbs of torque. This would be about double the hp of you current deutz engine. I have also been researching some of the other blowers and how to improve performance. It would seem that Aczlan is on the right track about tightening up the clearances. There are companies that actually make and sell such kits for snow blowers. I would probably go the same route as Aczlan took and make my own. Also, the blowers I was looking at used a 24in blower fan, I think you said yours was 36"???. The increase in fan size should provide more windspeed and throw further than the skidsteer types I looked at. :tractor: