Hourly vs Salary?

[newbury]

Almost all of the last 26 years I've been a salaried employee and the last 7 I have had a lot of latitude keeping the hospital going due to the revolving door at the top and have become the go to person in just about every aspect outside patient care... negotiating contracts, setting priorities, capital equipment, licensing, permits, compliance issues, accreditation, new employee orientation, etc... my background is engineering and I was recruited all those years ago.<snip>

For the life of me I cannot figure out the reality of how this will work... if I continue my present duties it could get expensive as my responsibilities vary greatly over any 7 day period with a mixture of long and short days... many engineering jobs are done outside the surgery schedule... read after hours.

Becoming hourly means mandatory punching in and out for work start/stop, lunch and breaks with any exception requiring documentations and approvals... it also means overtime which is something I have never ever had... but I imagine it could be very lucrative if I were to paid for all my time... typical busy time is from about 6 am to 6 pm 7 days a week.<snip>

How much has your management chain been altered?

Will you be held to "performance standards" based on a job description which requires a lot of what is for you not necessary and actually interferes with getting stuff done? For example, before I retired I was required annually to take 80 "hours" of classes in professional fields, plus probably another 80 hours of "other" training in ethics, safety, security, wiping your nose etc.

The "other" training was a total waste on most of us, it just repeated itself every year for thirty years. The professional training was interesting but was also basically worthless, I was going to retire. But all of this training took a month out of the year when I was trying to get a job done. And if I didn't get it checked off on my performance appraisal I would be severely docked.

Your duties read like an essential kingpin with so many "other duties as assigned" that your job description is essentially a blank piece of paper.
If your higher management is unchanged and knows you they should check off on your performance appraisals, but if you get a new boss who knows.

What happens when a crisis arises as they often do on a Friday afternoon? Do you need to get "prior approval" before anything gets done?

And how long before you plan to retire? It might be an opportune time to jump to a smaller regional hospital.

 

[davesl708]

I have been through four buy-outs, acquisitions, and upper management changes in my career.
Expect to be training your replacement. It has been my experience the new owners want to recoup their investment as quick as possible. That means getting rid of the highly compensated employees and replacing them with low wage inexperience people they hope to train and not have to pay high salaries and benefits to.

 

[ultrarunner]

Wow... all great replies and most helpful.

We would be non-union so that part is out of the picture and length of service would carry over for PTO which tops out at 10 years employment.

Based on the hourly wage offered I could actually come out ahead on a 40 hour week.

The company has been offered for sale since 2009 to the point where the name on the building was being changed but the acquiring company had a injunction placed on them as they had all kinds of regulatory problems... some would say we dodged a bullet at the 12th hour as it was a done deal that had to be undone.

The last 5 years we have had other suitors and 3 years ago I was told to prepare for closing which was very real.

Since then we have had no onsite management... only the Department Heads running their departments and working together... it has worked amazingly well and much better than anyone could have expected... we all stepped up and half my time was spent doing things outside engineering which was empowering if that is the right word for it.

I had even asked the Board to consider me for the vacant Administrator position and had support.

The Hospital is again stable, cases and profits are up making us attractive again and this is where we are.

I enjoyed being a problem solver and the go to person as well as collaborating with the supervisors of the Medical Staff and Business Office.

My new job description is 100% maintenance... servicing the Steam Plant, Medical Vacuum, Bio-Med and building services based on 40 hours a week... thing is no one can tell me what my hours will be. The closest I've heard is it could very well be a split shift and then on call as needed.

Maybe I'm wrong but hourly employees I know work a defined shift unless modified by their supervisor...

 

[hawkeye08]

Sounds like a new adventure... unless you want to try something else, go for a ride and see how you like it.. The other thing to consider, if you retired now vs retired later, what would change?

 

[hawkeye08]

... and of course a war story. I went from hourly to salary back in '93, ended up working more hours with no over time. Lost about 20% over time pay. They promised a salary increase to put me back where I was... never came. Several jobs later (same company), new manager asked why I was under paid 20% for my position, I told him and he gave me a 20% increase that year.

 

[PJSprog]

I, too, have been on both sides of that fence. I've never really had a problem with hourly positions, but I have been burned on the salary side more than once. One job I had averaged about 60 hours a week, sometimes as much as 80. That's a lot of free overtime. The last couple of salaried jobs (including current) have been very good, requiring only a straight 40/week.

... thing is no one can tell me what my hours will be.

This is the part that would worry me most. It gives the impression that they either haven't yet worked out all the details of your new position, or they have and are deliberately withholding certain details.

 

[jerrybob]

Seems to be a classic corporate acquisition move you are caught up in. To the corporation, they have analyzed that it is in their best interests to offer you an hourly job. They are in control of benefits, they are in control of time. Do not overlook that part. Both can be cut and controlled at their discretion.

I would think about the job, as offered, and approach it as if it were a new job offer to you. Forget what you have done as far as how it worked, and how you made it work. You are about to become a new resource in a new environment.

You have to make a decision based on your best interests and values. Best of luck, and attempt negotiations if you are serious about staying.

FWIW, my time is most important to me, I value where I am at and time as most important. Benefits, dollars and whatnot, are down the list. It's all about time and place.

Very well stated.....the company is doing what is best for them.....not you.

 

[MossRoad]

Ultrarunner,

I was salaried for about 27 years. I averaged 54 hours per week. I was being groomed for termination (job title change, promotion, raise and nothing to do), so I slipped over to an hourly position in maintenance right before the ax fell. I took a large pay cut, and hours got set at 40 per week. But once I ran the numbers, I was getting paid about 10% more per hour VS what I was getting paid per hour salaried. Yes, my paycheck is smaller, but I gained 14 hours at home each week. Plus, I don't take a lunch, so I gained another 5 hours. So, I get paid more per hour and am not at work 19 less hours per week! The only benefit I lost was free term life insurance dropped from two X my annual salary to one X my annual salary. I'm at a point in my life where that doesn't matter anymore, anyway. So going hourly has been a boost for me. Also, I do get the occasional overtime, and now that I'm hourly, I get paid for being on-call. I didn't get that when I was salary. I'm content.

 

[rustyshakelford]

Thing with hospital plant engineers is that they are invaluable especially to an established hospital. We had to do a walk thru at a hospital under construction and met with the head plant guy. The knowledge of that guy was incredible considering all the operation equipment he was responsible for. I say enjoy being hourly and hopefully your current salary will convert over to hourly and any OT will be a bonus. There's many times we go to these places and have to have the assistance of the engineer.

Brett

 

[California]

Keep in mind the new owner is looking for cost savings or they wouldn't be dictating new terms ...

Whatever your status and responsibilities were before, doesn't predict much for your role under this new owner. Can you learn more about your proposed new role by discussing this with the Plant Manager at other hospitals owned by this chain?

 

[ultrarunner]

I, too, have been on both sides of that fence. I've never really had a problem with hourly positions, but I have been burned on the salary side more than once. One job I had averaged about 60 hours a week, sometimes as much as 80. That's a lot of free overtime. The last couple of salaried jobs (including current) have been very good, requiring only a straight 40/week.



This is the part that would worry me most. It gives the impression that they either haven't yet worked out all the details of your new position, or they have and are deliberately withholding certain details.

Confirmed that none of the mechanics of how it will work has been decided...

The printed job requirements are very extensive and very physical... all the boxes checked for heavy lifting for long periods of time is just one.

Maybe you guys know...

One requirement in bold is that I must be available to respond to the Hospital 24/365 days per year unless on approved PTO or approved sick leave.

So let's say I've put in a 40 hour week and I'm sailing with friends on the San Francisco Bay and get the call to come into work ASAP... and the alarm or remedy takes 10 minutes... am I paid for 10 minutes or am I paid from when the call went out?

Another question is who exactly can approve or cause a call out?

One of the HR people said not to take everything verbatim as there will be a phase in for all employees with adjustments.

About a third of the staff have approached me asking for my advice... not a single one was pleased... maybe the other two thirds are pleased?

The discontent is from the top down...

I'm more than willing to commit to fixed hours if it means my time is my time.

As some know Mom had Alzheimers and it is not getting better... being salaried has provided a little flexibility in getting her to appointments... HR said this will be addressed under Family Leave???

 

[ultrarunner]

Keep in mind the new owner is looking for cost savings or they wouldn't be dictating new terms ...

Whatever your status and responsibilities were before, doesn't predict much for your role under this new owner. Can you learn more about your proposed new role by discussing this with the Plant Manager at other hospitals owned by this chain?

Yep... it looks to be all the tasks of before less some administrative plus many new ones...

It could be that I am taking things to literally but when it is there in black and white it is there for a reason... the new owners have a long history of labor strife... something we have never experienced in my 27 year tenure.

Conventional wisdom is agree to everything and should it become unacceptable... leave.

The only plus I see is a 50% match on the first 6% of 403B employee contributions.

 

[California]

50% match on the first 6% of 403B employee contributions.

Big whoop. You put away $23,000 they put in $720.

That's after you are 50 years old. Less if you're younger.

403b annual limit 2017

 

[bigtiller]

Confirmed that none of the mechanics of how it will work has been decided...

The printed job requirements are very extensive and very physical... all the boxes checked for heavy lifting for long periods of time is just one.

Maybe you guys know...

One requirement in bold is that I must be available to respond to the Hospital 24/365 days per year unless on approved PTO or approved sick leave.

So let's say I've put in a 40 hour week and I'm sailing with friends on the San Francisco Bay and get the call to come into work ASAP... and the alarm or remedy takes 10 minutes... am I paid for 10 minutes or am I paid from when the call went out?

Another question is who exactly can approve or cause a call out?

One of the HR people said not to take everything verbatim as there will be a phase in for all employees with adjustments.

About a third of the staff have approached me asking for my advice... not a single one was pleased... maybe the other two thirds are pleased?

The discontent is from the top down...

I'm more than willing to commit to fixed hours if it means my time is my time.

As some know Mom had Alzheimers and it is not getting better... being salaried has provided a little flexibility in getting her to appointments... HR said this will be addressed under Family Leave???

If it were a union job, 10 minutes you would get 4 hours call-in pay. But you would have to work for 4 hours also. Sweep the floor, wash windows, ect.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

Big whoop. You put away $23,000 they put in $720.

That's after you are 50 years old. Less if you're younger.

403b annual limit 2017

If he isn't making more than that, he is barely making more than minimum wage.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

Ultrarunner, here is my thought. You have been there a long time. You are probably emotionally vested in the place, so it's hard to think of leaving. But, you see some things that make you uncomfortable. I don't know what your job market is like, but if other hospitals, and facilities are around, I would put my resume out and start seeing what was available. Make connections....talk to people....you might not like what they have right now, but sometimes people real out for help
That is how I found my current job. I was not looking but a message got passed to me thru a contact I had and they needed someone who can do my job. IT sounds like your job isn't easy to fill, so you probably need to look around and make your name known.

 

[California]

... 50% match on the first 6% of 403B employee contributions.

If he isn't making more than that, he is barely making more than minimum wage.

I'm taking what he said literally, they will match the first 6% of the employee's contribution.

 

[Citydude]

Confirmed that none of the mechanics of how it will work has been decided... The printed job requirements are very extensive and very physical... all the boxes checked for heavy lifting for long periods of time is just one. Maybe you guys know... One requirement in bold is that I must be available to respond to the Hospital 24/365 days per year unless on approved PTO or approved sick leave. So let's say I've put in a 40 hour week and I'm sailing with friends on the San Francisco Bay and get the call to come into work ASAP... and the alarm or remedy takes 10 minutes... am I paid for 10 minutes or am I paid from when the call went out? Another question is who exactly can approve or cause a call out? One of the HR people said not to take everything verbatim as there will be a phase in for all employees with adjustments. About a third of the staff have approached me asking for my advice... not a single one was pleased... maybe the other two thirds are pleased? The discontent is from the top down... I'm more than willing to commit to fixed hours if it means my time is my time. As some know Mom had Alzheimers and it is not getting better... being salaried has provided a little flexibility in getting her to appointments... HR said this will be addressed under Family Leave???

On call 24/365 concerns me. I think there should be more definition on how your compensated for this situation on the job description.

 

[California]

I think WoodChuckDad is right. This will be a whole new world with nothing prior relevant now. Worst case, you agree in writing to do all the same work in 40 hours. Then a new manager promoted from one of their other facilities will write you up when it takes too long to come in from that sailboat on Sunday.

I've had some incredible a***oles rotate through a temporary one year tryout as manager that they didn't succeed at. Worst case was a co-worker's wife bore a seriously defective baby and the co-worker was told that was no excuse to not travel out of town that week. Employee tried to explain the situation, manager told the employee in front of us if the baby is that bad take it back to the hospital and abandon it. (Baby died after a week). That 'manager' was the worst, but we saw a few others that made everyone miserable for a while. Another example two different novice managers didn't anticipate earned vacation time in their planning then went nuts when we used it by year-end, facing 'take it or lose it' rules.

Hopefully what's coming in Oakland is a lot better than worst case, but you mentioned a reputation for 'labor problems' so anything is possible. Maybe scout around a little?

 

[ultrarunner]

This is what I'm trying to pin down...

Clocking in for a twenty minute job on a Sunday afternoon hardly seems worth it if it means ruining family plans.

My friends on call with the city and county hospitals have an extra perk because they can't drink and have to be able to show up in 60 minutes... and typically it is for one weekend a month.

Surgical nurses on call at the big hospital receive on call pay for being available... they loved getting paid while they were home.

I do have a lot of emotional attachment as I was here every step of the way during construction of the "New" facility and my then boss said it's my baby as we opened for business... I know every square inch of the place. We recently added a new MRI and it was nights and weekends for months... demo, excavating, pouring concrete, utility tie-ins... all without disrupting daily operations.

My proudest accomplishment is well over 130,000 surgical procedures and never once did we have to reschedule or cancel a case due to a facility or equipment issue... which is kind of remarkable but probably means nothing to the new owner.

My original Boss gave me a free hand to keep critical stock and supplies on hand and encouraged planning for contingencies... items such as critical motors, pumps, relays, etc and by designing redundant systems so turning a few valves of flipping a few switches keeps the doors open.

The SF Bay Area is a very high cost of living region... pay that are nurses receive is considered on the low side yet many make 100k and I know nurses that work a lot of hours and make double that at other facilities.

A nurse making 100k contributing 6% to the 401k/403B would contribute $6,000 so a 50% match would be 3k