Hourly vs Salary?

[ultrarunner]

I think WoodChuckDad is right. This will be a whole new world with nothing prior relevant now. Worst case, you agree in writing to do all the same work in 40 hours. Then a new manager promoted from one of their other facilities will write you up when it takes too long to come in from that sailboat on Sunday.

I've had some incredible a***oles rotate through a temporary one year tryout as manager that they didn't succeed at. Worst case was a co-worker's wife bore a seriously defective baby and the co-worker was told that was no excuse to not travel out of town that week. Employee tried to explain the situation, manager told the employee in front of us if the baby is that bad take it back to the hospital and abandon it. (Baby died after a week). That 'manager' was the worst, but we saw a few others that made everyone miserable for a while. Another example two different novice managers didn't anticipate earned vacation time in their planning then went nuts when we used it by year-end, facing 'take it or lose it' rules.

Hopefully what's coming in Oakland is a lot better than worst case, but you mentioned a reputation for 'labor problems' so anything is possible. Maybe scout around a little?

I actually kept a 28' Pearson at Alameda Marina for a few years... it never failed when I was out on a great sail day for a problem to happen after hours... one time, back in the days of pagers it just about did it for me... some kids broke two soda bottles at patient discharge and I was paged in on a Sunday out on the Bay sailing to sweep it up...

This is why getting a clear understanding of the after hours call-out is critical to me.

Ended up selling the boat as I couldn't enjoy it.

That is a shame when a family experiences a personal tragedy... and the death of a child would have to be right there at the top.

 

[California]

A nurse making 100k contributing 6% to the 401k/403B would contribute $6,000 so a 50% match would be 3k

That sounds a lot better!

Sounds like you presently have a dream job. I hope the new circumstances are as good.

 

[LD1]

The on call would concern me to unless your compensated. I have friend who is a lineman for the power company. They rotate on-call weeks. How can a company honestly expect you to be in call 24/7/365 is beyond me. What if you want to have an occasional drink? Or be out of town?

I work to pay my bills. Nothing more. It's just a job that is a means to an end. Too many companies think you should be married to them. For me, there is nothing more important than enjoying life and spending time with my wife and kids. If my job no longer allows me to do that, then it will no longer be my job.

 

[California]

I work to pay my bills. Nothing more. It's just a job that is a means to an end. Too many companies think you should be married to them. For me, there is nothing more important than enjoying life and spending time with my wife and kids. If my job no longer allows me to do that, then it will no longer be my job.

Amen bro. After the mid-90's market run-up I realized the money I had been salting away for retirement had reached my target years sooner than I expected. I took early retirement at 54. It's the best decision I've ever made.

Life is for living. My best friend had died of work stress before 40 and that made a profound impression on me - work is to provide, it's not an end in itself. 18 years after retiring I've put two kids through college with no debt, and savings still equal the day I retired. I'm certain our living inexpensively in the first couple of decades married, working hard and saving like mad, was well worth the result.

 

[riptides]

One requirement in bold is that I must be available to respond to the Hospital 24/365 days per year unless on approved PTO or approved sick leave.

So let's say I've put in a 40 hour week and I'm sailing with friends on the San Francisco Bay and get the call to come into work ASAP... and the alarm or remedy takes 10 minutes... am I paid for 10 minutes or am I paid from when the call went out?

Another question is who exactly can approve or cause a call out?

One would think your questions should have answers that are readily available as the corporation has done this type of acquisition before. Farther down in your post, the HR person again gives a nebulous answer to your position on dealing with your Mom. These, to me, seem like basic policy-managerial-employee relationships that should already be known.

One of the HR people said not to take everything verbatim as there will be a phase in for all employees with adjustments.

But everything must have a written content to it. That is where the questions will arise from. This is a control point for the corporation - they can make adjustments, accordingly. One cannot agree to words and what is said anymore when it comes to a work relationship.

About a third of the staff have approached me asking for my advice... not a single one was pleased... maybe the other two thirds are pleased?

The change process is a highly emotional and stressful time. People will invariably play the negative card as it is easier to identify and creates a conversation point. Look for the positive. Be positive. At the very least, the corporation has extended you a job offer. That is something.

I'm more than willing to commit to fixed hours if it means my time is my time.

A great position to have. Your time. Base your decisions on that as a core, it is a most positive leverage point.

FWIW, it cannot hurt you to get a backup/back-out plan going. Get your resume together and start inquiring around. Perhaps find a good head-hunter to assist. That way you are prepared ever so slightly no matter your ultimate decision.

Best of luck.

 

[ultrarunner]

You guys have provided a lot of food for thought... and I do appreciate the sounding board.

Most in my family have been self employed... either farming or small independant business owners so there is little "In House" resource wise to pull from... especially in the corporate world. I was really the first in my family to have a corp job with at the time of hire all the big corp benefits... I think Dad was the happiest of all as him being self employed he was always working and paying his own way to support the family.

We had been told leading up to this week that little would be different workwise other than restoration of some benefits and a being part of a large entity instead of what had basically become a stand alone which is precarious position in Healthcare today.

I lot of my closests friends choose Law Enforcement and that goes for 12 of my High School friends... all have long been retired with retirements far greater than what is on the table at work so I'm no Spring Chicken as I continue to work.

The RN's have so far been the least affected group... for some Nurses it has meant raises tied to the acquisition and many have said greater opportunity for movement in a larger system.

For the rest... not so good.

Maybe I just need to learn how to maximize the system... Family Leave is clearly spelled out and I anticipate having a Mom with Alzheimer's this might be an avenue that would work.

Many, including those that have retired took advantage of the max 480 hours of accumulated sick leave... use it or lose it... thankfully I have never taken a "Sick" day as our Extended Sick time kicks in after 3 days... still, it took decades to accumulate and it is being wiped out.

I think what I need is to go the farm and do some Dozer work to clear my head... nothing like a few hours seat time to bring it all into focus.

 

[tcreeley]

Salary to hourly - main change will be that you no-longer have control over your hours and work done. They may limit your hours per week, no OT. And if you can't fulfill your job duties in that time period- they suggest you move on. That is the dismal outlook - that is the impersonal side of business.

We had an electrician full time on staff at my old school. He did many different things- from boilers, ventilation, new wiring, plumbing repairs. He did all of the things that no one knew how to do. He saved the district money with his fine tuning of the heat/ventilation system. After a new superintendent came on board - the need of "a full time electrician" was raised and this man was let go. No one was hired to pick up the slack. Quality slipped, things never ran as well again. - That's new management for you. The unspoken rule is "enough to get by" because that is "quality enough" if done right.

Good luck. - Keep the job, less stress, you already know your way around. -New job- same politics, just in a different location.

 

[ovrszd]

I'm taking what he said literally, they will match the first 6% of the employee's contribution.

I look at employee contributions from the opposite direction. Any time an employer matches any amount it's value to the employee to take advantage of it.

If he contributes 6% into his own retirement, he gets a 3% pay increase (their match).

 

[ovrszd]

I work to pay my bills. Nothing more. It's just a job that is a means to an end. Too many companies think you should be married to them. For me, there is nothing more important than enjoying life and spending time with my wife and kids. If my job no longer allows me to do that, then it will no longer be my job.

I was very good at my job. Known and respected worldwide. That caused my unit to be Deployed more than average. But it was honorable.

With all that said, my motto always was "My job is not my life, my job is how I pay for my life".

 

[PJSprog]

I think what I need is to go the farm and do some Dozer work to clear my head... nothing like a few hours seat time to bring it all into focus.

That's always good therapy, at least for me. One reason I never minded cutting grass; good alone time with your brain.

 

[forgeblast]

Just wanted to say that when I stress about a situation that has not occurred I tell myself "there is no bridge". It comes from a book I read. The main character was poised the question "Ahead There is a rickety bridge over a swollen stream what do you do". and the character responded "There is no bridge" meaning that the problems ahead could not be addressed until you get there. (live in the moment)

I like to pin down the details, and not knowing is sometimes a big stressor.
If they don't know (HR) then you don't know, there is no bridge. You could throw around resumes, see what typical compensation is for your job, hours, on call etc, but if you enjoy where you work, if you like the people you work with then your already highly compensated.
I am salary took a pay cut to be at my current job from to work with some amazing people. I enjoy where I work and who I work with. Stress of the job, is not compounded by stress with management, or staff.

 

[ultrarunner]

^^^ It's convenient both ways... I live about 9 minutes from work unlike many that live much farther away... we have nurses that on a good day were more than an hour out and on a bad day much farther depending on weather and traffic.

I sound like the electrician in tcreey posts... no matter what came up it was taken care of without any supervision... only a notation via e-mail...

One of my special projects was fighting a property tax increase that has saved the Hospital 50k annually... the board had turned it over to a tax lawyer at $400 an hour with no results... I mentioned never having lost an assessment appeal which can take 2 or more years from start to finish and I came through... the appeal board asked if I was a lawyer and I said no... just an employee trying to save our jobs... which got a chuckle from all of them and then I made my presentation.

Or cutting the Waste Management bill by 60% and saving another 24k per year in perpetuity...

Energy management has been another strong suit... we had been paying way too much because the plan selected did not meet are needs... sure... we may pay a high bill in August now... but overall we save 17% because August is an exception...

My strongest suit is keeping older equipment operational, boilers, pumps, generator, anesthesia machines and HVAC.

I love the internet... give me a part number and specs and I will get what we need... this applies to pharmaceuticals shortages too negotiating with other hospitals to make sure we all have what we need... even competitors work together when it comes to sector shortages in Health Care.

Somethings are seasonal... it doesn't rain much in California, but when it does it can be a lot... keeping an eye on weather reports and walking the entire 32,000 feet roof making sure scuppers and drains are clear and in summer keep the A/C condensate lines free flowing... penetrations sealed... etc.

If a toilet is stopped or a car needs towing or we have a non-compliant patient or someone unbalanced thinking it is OK so smear feces in the lobby or takes a dump... I take care of that too... including stopping burglaries in progress...

I took to heart when we opened the building and the CEO said it is my baby...

Often work early AM from home on my PC as this is the best time for East Coast vendors...

It "Appears" the position I enjoy will no longer exist... the mandatory punching in for breaks and meal time is something I find degrading after 26 years and akin to a leash.

But as pointed out, none of this has happened yet... my stress is based on the take it or leave it employment offer and unanswered questions... The HR people said they had discussed my duties at length because no one in the organization has the responsibilities and broad duties I have making me impossible to classify... so they chose maintenace man...

Until Tuesday I saw my position like the executive assistant to the CEO or a Colonel in the Marines... we are the people that make sure things get done under the authority of leaders we serve often by cutting through the bureaucracy, red tape and thinking outside the box with the last being the most dangerous to large corps... people that problem solve and think outside the box often find it difficult because results are often secondary to following the rules...

Back in Union Days... if the forklift driver was unavailable... the load sat until he was... no matter how long... still remember critical material sitting on the truck with 6 guys waiting an no one to operate the forklift... so I did and I had my forklift card from a prior job... it caused quite a stir because rules are rules... all was forgiven with the promise I not work outside my classification.

 

[GLyford]

So let's say I've put in a 40 hour week and I'm sailing with friends on the San Francisco Bay and get the call to come into work ASAP... and the alarm or remedy takes 10 minutes... am I paid for 10 minutes or am I paid from when the call went out?

From the CA website:

Division of Labor Standards Enforcement (DLSE) - Reporting time pay

"Reporting time pay" is partial compensation for employees who report to work expecting to work a specified number of hours and who are deprived of that amount because of inadequate scheduling or lack of proper notice by the employer. The provisions of the law regarding reporting time pay are as follows:
Each workday an employee is required to report to work, but is not put to work or is furnished with less than half of his or her usual or scheduled day's work, he or she must be paid for half the usual or scheduled day's work, but in no event for less than two hours nor more than four hours, at his or her regular rate of pay.
If an employee is required to report to work a second time in any one workday and is furnished less than two hours of work on the second reporting, he or she must be paid for two hours at his or her regular rate of pay.

So basically, first callout is half a shift of pay minimum regardless of how much is worked (4 hours if your regular shift is 8), every subsequent callout is 2 hours minimum. Even for a 10 minute job. I suspect that does not include travel time, just "clock in" time. Often the people trying to figure this stuff out on the management side (especially for a new/reforming organization) aren't aware of these laws, and it can be helpful to point them out, it can cause a rapid recalculation on their part.

There is also this (I have no idea of how reliable this source is):

On-Call or Standby Work: Non-Exempt California Employees Must be Paid for Controlled Time

Your situation seems complicated enough that it might be worthwhile to consult a legal professional just to figure out where all the boundaries are, for you and for the company.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

After reading your last post, I think you should look for another job. If that place starts going to heck it is going to drive you crazy. Looking certainly won't hurt you. You may very well find something that takes advantage of your newfound skills. You sound like a project manager to me. And around here, those guys make good money.

 

[dickfoster]

Almost all of the last 26 years I've been a salaried employee and the last 7 I have had a lot of latitude keeping the hospital going due to the revolving door at the top and have become the go to person in just about every aspect outside patient care... negotiating contracts, setting priorities, capital equipment, licensing, permits, compliance issues, accreditation, new employee orientation, etc... my background is engineering and I was recruited all those years ago.

Today it was made official my little regional Hospital is being acquired and I was given a contingent offer letter with employment packet.

My salaried Position is to be eliminated and the offer is hourly along with slightly better benefits effective in 60 days.

The contingent part is a physical, drug testing, background, etc.

For the life of me I cannot figure out the reality of how this will work... if I continue my present duties it could get expensive as my responsibilities vary greatly over any 7 day period with a mixture of long and short days... many engineering jobs are done outside the surgery schedule... read after hours.

Becoming hourly means mandatory punching in and out for work start/stop, lunch and breaks with any exception requiring documentations and approvals... it also means overtime which is something I have never ever had... but I imagine it could be very lucrative if I were to paid for all my time... typical busy time is from about 6 am to 6 pm 7 days a week.

Part of me says to give it a try as I could always leave and another part is hung up on the logistics of it all.

I was almost always a salary slave too. The brief periods I was on a clock I had nightmares about it although I've always put in way more than 40 a week while salaried and never felt the need to back up in a pay line. My guess is that that it's just another adjustment that you'll likely get used to after a while. Of course you could always retire and sit on your lazy backside like me.

 

[GLyford]

I had another thought...

Your job description sounds a lot closer to "Building Operations Manager" than "Maintenance."

 

[jerrybob]

Amen bro. After the mid-90's market run-up I realized the money I had been salting away for retirement had reached my target years sooner than I expected. I took early retirement at 54. It's the best decision I've ever made.

Life is for living. My best friend had died of work stress before 40 and that made a profound impression on me - work is to provide, it's not an end in itself. 18 years after retiring I've put two kids through college with no debt, and savings still equal the day I retired. I'm certain our living inexpensively in the first couple of decades married, working hard and saving like mad, was well worth the result.

Same here......got out when I was 50......best decision ever. I was in the right place at the right time.......my wife and I had a plan to retire at 55......we made it happen sooner. Corp. merger made my company pay me a lot of money to ensure success......I signed a two year bonus contract....they paid off.....I left. Living the good life now.....have for many years. If you can afford to leave.....do it........they are not looking out for you.......take care of yourself and family.

 

[Deere Dude]

I was an hourly union maintenance man for a factory with set hours. If times were slow it was 40 hrs and out.

Sometimes the hour start times change earlier or later but you kind of just roll with it.

After 8 hours is overtime, double after 12 or on Sunday. Even though the hours are set which is a big benefit for the home life, we found that if we needed to stay later to finish a job or come in earlier to get a jump on the day, all was well with management, as long as we didn't abuse the overtime system. They are flexible if a certain skill set is involved and would probably be your case.

I would go with the hourly and not worry about another job unless you find the new conditions are intolerable, but I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

 

[riptides]

I had another thought...

Your job description sounds a lot closer to "Building Operations Manager" than "Maintenance."

Facilities Operations Program Manager

 

[newbury]

<snip> the go to person in just about every aspect outside patient care... negotiating contracts, setting priorities, capital equipment, licensing, permits, compliance issues, accreditation, new employee orientation, etc... my background is engineering <snip>

Lot's of duties.

Facilities Operations Program Manager

Confirmed that none of the mechanics of how it will work has been decided...

The printed job requirements are very extensive and very physical... all the boxes checked for heavy lifting for long periods of time is just one.

Maybe you guys know...

One requirement in bold is that I must be available to respond to the Hospital 24/365 days per year unless on approved PTO or approved sick leave.

So let's say I've put in a 40 hour week and I'm sailing with friends on the San Francisco Bay and get the call to come into work ASAP... and the alarm or remedy takes 10 minutes... am I paid for 10 minutes or am I paid from when the call went out?

Another question is who exactly can approve or cause a call out?

One of the HR people said not to take everything verbatim as there will be a phase in for all employees with adjustments.

HR owes nothing to you and everything to management.

Yep... it looks to be all the tasks of before less some administrative plus many new ones...

It could be that I am taking things to literally but when it is there in black and white it is there for a reason... the new owners have a long history of labor strife...<snip>

Will HR support you if there is a problem?

<snip>Many, including those that have retired took advantage of the max 480 hours of accumulated sick leave... use it or lose it... thankfully I have never taken a "Sick" day as our Extended Sick time kicks in after 3 days... still, it took decades to accumulate and it is being wiped out.

Don't trust being able to use sick leave. I too saved up a ton of sick leave, well over 2000 hours. With my last back operation due to delays with doctors etc. I ended up taking over a month to recuperate. One of my bosses threatened to fire me for using my sick leave. That greatly influenced my decision to retire early.

After reading your last post, I think you should look for another job. If that place starts going to heck it is going to drive you crazy. Looking certainly won't hurt you. You may very well find something that takes advantage of your newfound skills. You sound like a project manager to me. And around here, those guys make good money.

Good idea.

Can you find others in facilities that the corporation swallowed up previously? Ask them how it went.

It reads like you had a great 27 years, but a storm is coming. Perhaps you should find a job that can use your experience. Contact other small hospitals. Your main problem may be keeping your resume succinct. Maximize your rental properties, take care of your Mom, surf TBN.