LS backhoe questions. please post pics of subframe mount.

[hutchman]

Yeah, use 1/2" hoses and QDs for the supply and return. Since you plan to use the
AUX valve to power the hoe, it will also add restriction (and heat) to the oil. You
can reduce this by routing the OUT from the hoe directly into the tractor's tank somehow.
Some tractors have "extra" ports on the rear gearbox to do this, or you can return
oil thru the filler/vent neck.

When I was playing around with the stump I noticed the QDs were pretty toasty. I think I read somwhere that anything over 140 degrees starts to break down the oil and can mess up seals etc. I've got one of those IR temp things so maybe I take a reading next time I work it for a baseline. I don't think I'm in the 140 range (I could keep my hand on it a while) but lets say it does get up there ... can I rig up a hydraulic cooler somewhere? I've read the best setup is one with a fan that cuts on/off at a certain temp. Some are plumbed in front of the radiator fan but I've heard there could be issues with this kind of setup in cold weather (too much pressure blowing stuff up).

I'm not a hydraulics expert so I hope to learn from others that have dealt with this kind of thing before.

 

[hutchman]

That looks really good, Brian. Hopefully you have no regrets after taking on this project. The rewards make
it more than worth the efforts, IMO. I am glad you got something out of my subframe post.

Now, dig some holes and post the pix.

Thanks! Well, it's going to get some use! I have at least 3 culverts to put in, a 1,400 - 1,600ft. drive way to finish (big CAT track loader got the stumps out for me) and probably 1,600ft of trenching for underground power (that might be asking too much but we'll see) ... prep site for pole barn etc.

 

[hutchman]

Really need a culvert here bad!!! I sunk my dump truck in that hole. I was working with excavator last year and he has a much bigger dump truck than me ... he stuck his in that hole first. Then I miss it but couldn't make it up the hill due to my tires being clogged up with clay so I backed up to try and get another run at it and when I did I fell into the hole he made then he had to come pull me out with the CAT.

 

[PatrickS2222]

Wow! What a result for all your effort ..... You've done really well there! :thumbsup: I'm quite impressed ..... and rather envious! :drink:
Looks like you have a helluva lot of hoops to jump through yet - as if you haven't been through enough already - although now there's a really useful piece of equipment to use which will be a huge advantage to you. :licking: Additionally, it will be uber-strong and reliable, also there's the satisfaction of repeatedly using something you made yourself! It will be many times stronger than a 3PT mounted version could hope to be, and won't tear your tractor apart.
In regard to your concerns about oil temperature - here's some light reading ... links below.
From just scanning through some of it, one site seems to say a desirable temp is around 140degF/60degC to a max of 175degF/75degC, while another regards this as 20degF/10degC too high.

But read this and more before you draw any conclusions: -
How hot is too hot? | Heat Exchangers content from Hydraulics & Pneumatics
Beware Hydraulic Systems Running to Hot.
Temperature Stability of Lubricants and Hydraulic Fluids
Summer’s Here and Hydraulic Oil Temperatures are Rising! - GPM HYDRAULIC CONSULTING, INC.

That said, I don't mean to compare apples with oranges, but I recall getting the oil for the gearbox/final drive /3PL quite hot in my loader. I was cleaning the built-up mud out of the dam on our property. I had pumped it dry and was carrying mud one bucket at a time up a steep slope and dumping it a ways further on. This entailed quite a bit of low-geared, full-load climbing - nothing crazy but my trusty MF 40 loader complete with freshly-reconditioned diesel was indeed working hard. Conscious of the weight of mud, steep slippery slopes and stability, I had a very heavy implement on the 3PL (a soil aerator) plus several 8ft pieces of heavy channel - total probably 1200lbs. The 3PT wasn't happy about lifting it, but it did. After working almost 4hrs the gearbox&final drive casing was too hot to touch my leg against it. I concluded the 3PL had some internal leaks (45YO machine) and the pump was continually contending with this. I then configured a couple of D-shackles and a strong chain to hold the implement raised and could lower the 3PL onto the chain without over-stressing anything. This helped immensely - after 6 hours the next day the casing was only just warm - from gearbox operation, I presume.
I found it a bit reassuring to have got the years-old oil nice and hot though, to rid it of any built-up moisture, but it should be changed, I guess. In short, it isn't bad for oil to get hot, only too hot!
When you've got time ... I have a couple of trenching jobs I need done here too .... :laughing:
Look after your arm, be ultra-careful and don't work too hard. And keep us posted on its performance!

 

[1stDeuce]

Nice work!!! I'd almost kill for a plasma table, but I too make templates and cut by hand. It works fairly well, most of the time. I've found that 1/4" luan is cheap and easy to work with, and if I'm careful, or keep it a bit wet, it lasts quite a while.

Just curious, but what holds the BH down in the fingers? I assume not just gravity, but I didn't figure out what exactly...

If I end up with an LS, I'm probably going to opt for an Ansung 3pt hoe, and then build my own subframe eventually if I don't like it 3pt mounted... If I go with a Branson, then the Branson hoe is actually made by Ansung, and I'll just pay the extra $500 for their subframe. I think it's not quite as easy to hook up as the LS frame, but close. The LS hoe is, IMO, overpriced for what it is. (Or my dealer is gouging for the hoe...)

Man, I just scrolled back a few pages... I really like your setup!!
I'm about to start property work for home construction too... I'll be working with a bigger tractor, so hopefully things will go smooth.
Great work!!

 

[1stDeuce]

BTW, the 4 series tractors have an oil cooler for the hydraulics, somewhere up near (in front of?) the radiator... Yours should too... Might be as easy as putting a small electric fan on the existing cooler to make sure it always gets airflow... ??

 

[hutchman]

Nice work!!! I'd almost kill for a plasma table, but I too make templates and cut by hand. It works fairly well, most of the time. I've found that 1/4" luan is cheap and easy to work with, and if I'm careful, or keep it a bit wet, it lasts quite a while.

Just curious, but what holds the BH down in the fingers? I assume not just gravity, but I didn't figure out what exactly...

If I end up with an LS, I'm probably going to opt for an Ansung 3pt hoe, and then build my own subframe eventually if I don't like it 3pt mounted... If I go with a Branson, then the Branson hoe is actually made by Ansung, and I'll just pay the extra $500 for their subframe. I think it's not quite as easy to hook up as the LS frame, but close. The LS hoe is, IMO, overpriced for what it is. (Or my dealer is gouging for the hoe...)

Man, I just scrolled back a few pages... I really like your setup!!
I'm about to start property work for home construction too... I'll be working with a bigger tractor, so hopefully things will go smooth.
Great work!!

Yea, the weight of the backhoe keeps it in the cradle and there are two holes in the top that I put a 1/2" pin through to keep it from lifting off. There really isn't much stress on that pin best I can tell. The geometry of that cradle is kind of neat ... before I attached the backhoe "wings" as I call them to the backhoe, I'd place them in the cradle and pull up and they kind of lock in place and won't move up under force even with the pin removed.

From what I understand the Ansung 3pt. hitch is pretty good and probably would have been fine but I guess I do stuff the hard way. The Ansung 3pt. mount was a contraption that was a several hundred dollars and goes between the backhoe and the tractor. It's got some engineering that helps prevent a bunch of stress being put on the tractor. I ordered mine specifically without that part. Some dealers wouldn't even admit that it was an option and will automatically include it in the price. Once I learned that detail, I told the dealer I got mine from to leave that off and give me another bucket for it instead.

 

[hutchman]

BTW, the 4 series tractors have an oil cooler for the hydraulics, somewhere up near (in front of?) the radiator... Yours should too... Might be as easy as putting a small electric fan on the existing cooler to make sure it always gets airflow... ??

I don't remember seeing a cooler on mine. That's what got me to thinking about it.

The R3039 is a compact tractor. Almost the same power as the R4041 (4041 and 4047 have exact same engine I guess it just tuned a bit different). Because of it's compactness ... it was kind of hard to do the subframe mount. The 40xx series had more room and space to do more stuff easily (they are quite a bit bigger) with a subframe but the 3039 was really a challenge with how tight stuff it packed in there toward the rear.

 

[dickfoster]

Good job on the backhoe frame. You have more ambition than I do so I just bought mine with a subframe.

 

[1stDeuce]

Interesting that the BH doesn't come with the 3pt stuff... I'm sure the ones I've seen for sale have had it... that means my lower cost alternative just got even lower cost.

 

[hutchman]

Interesting that the BH doesn't come with the 3pt stuff... I'm sure the ones I've seen for sale have had it... that means my lower cost alternative just got even lower cost.

It looks like you could hook it up to 3pt. hitch directly ( or should i say traditionaly) but the extra 3pt. mount thing that usually comes on it adds a margin of safety to the tractor so the down sides (breaking castings) are minimised as much as possible.

 

[dfkrug]

It looks like you could hook it up to 3pt. hitch directly ( or should i say traditionaly) but the extra 3pt. mount thing that usually comes on it adds a margin of safety to the tractor so the down sides (breaking castings) are minimised as much as possible.

The extra parts you get with these hoes for mounting on the 3PH consist of a stronger toplink and 2 braces
between the toplink and the lower arms. The latter parts keep the whole hoe from rising independently of the
tractor when you put the outriggers down. Or dig in a way that puts upward force on the hoe.

It is unsafe to operate a hoe on the 3PH without the braces, as the operator can get squished
between the hoe and the tractor when upward force is applied.

I have a bunch of extras from all the Prairie Dogs that I bought in years past.

 

[1stDeuce]

Hutchman, did you get the backhoe local or order from out of state? Looking to pick one up soon...

 

[hutchman]

Hutchman, did you get the backhoe local or order from out of state? Looking to pick one up soon...

I was talking to two excellent out of state dealers and was about to pull the trigger when I just happened to send Ansung a question via email and they came back and answered my question plus told me there was a local dealer near me. I didn't think the local dealer could do a better price but they actually beat the deals of the out of state guys plus I felt obligated to buy "sort of local" and them having the best price was just icing on the cake.

 

[hutchman]

Got the mechanical thumb installed on backhoe and I like it! Real useful. Used it to clear a log jam (from their skidder) in a low spot the loggers left debris that backed up water into my road. Real musty smelling wood ... hopefully it will drain better now that I have a path cleared through it.

 

[hutchman]

Just an update. So far the backhoe subframe mount I made is holding up well. I have well over 10hrs of solid digging time on it.

I had a low spot that would back up with water due to the skidder trail pic in the previous post ... it would get worse than this:



... some will remember that's the same spot my dump truck got stuck and had to be pulled out by a track loader!

Got the log jam cleared and dug an outlet ditch for a culvert that eventually just runs out on top of the ground at a lower grade:



On the 18" culvert, I hand shovelled loose dirt and tamped it in layers 1/2 way up the pipe and then back filled it (until I broke my curl function on FEL ).

Oh, that's a fiberglass handled Harbor Freight shovel that doesn't suck in the last pic. All of my old inherited shovels were short so I picked up the long handled one spur of the moment while getting tow chains during the red tag sale.

 

[dfkrug]

Is that gonna be enough cover for a plastic culvert, HUTCH?

 

[hutchman]

Is that gonna be enough cover for a plastic culvert, HUTCH?

It's hard to tell from pic but it's about 6" on one side and almost a foot on the other (the slope of the pipe isn't that great though ... it's only like 10% or something ... so the outlet is about 4" lower from inlet - it's a smooth pipe on the inside). When I'm finished building up that area (when loader gets fixed) I'll have more than 1ft. on top and everything I've been told and read says 1ft. of fill on top will handle pretty much anything. I tend to over do stuff so I'll have more than what I was told on it.

Going to armour the inlet side bottom and sides with riprap and the outlet bottom with riprap too. This is totally overkill as water isn't normally in this area unless it really rains good. I built it to handle worse case like a hurricane that dumps 5-7" in an hour (hey, it's happened here before). I don't want to get cut off if/when something like that happens.

Oh, forgot to mention, just turned over 600hrs on the tractor (think I'm about up to 610 actually).

 

[hutchman]

I also got a new toy (two in fact) to keep my backhoe (and other things) humming along ... a battery powered Lincoln grease gun:

PowerLuber -- Lincoln Industrial

I have the HF air gun and I've been using the 3% molly from Tractor Supply for my dump truck and some other things.

For the tractor, I sprang for the 5% molly from Amsoil (Moly Heavy-Duty EP Grease Comparison Test [AMSOIL] - YouTube) instead of the CAT I had been using and I got the Lincoln air gun for that and it works sweet! It works so sweet that I decided to also get the 12V battery version. The air purge valve on the HF air gun is about useless for these thick molly grease tubes I've been using but the Lincoln air gun came with a tag wired to the gun that holds the secret that isn't found in the users manual. You totally unscrew the purge valve until the last thread or two, hold the grease cylinder upright and lightly tap the charge handle on a hard surface until grease starts to come out of the threads on the purge valve. Then tighten it up and it's good to go.

With the HF air gun and the 3% molly, I would unscrew the entire tube cylinder until the last thread or so but that would often result in going too far and now you are trying to screw the thing back together with the powerful spring working against you and the grease getting on your hands and preventing you from getting a good enough grip which would lead to moments of "getting in the flesh" if you know what I mean.

The last outing with the HF air gun left me resigned to the fact that next time I use it I will simply put on one of the HF tyvek type paper suits next time I do the dump truck ... but the Lincoln guns aren't as messing to use. But now that I know the super secret method of purging thanks to that Lincoln tag, I'm betting the same technique used on the HF gun will make it work just as well. Here's the secret:

 

[dfkrug]

When I'm finished building up that area (when loader gets fixed) I'll have more
than 1ft. on top and everything I've been told and read says 1ft. of fill on top will handle pretty much
anything.

I have never worked with plastic culvert myself; only steel and concrete. They all required a minimum of
12" cover. I figured plastic would require more cover, esp for larger pipes and heavy traffic.

I also have a Lincoln grease gun....I love it. Bleeding is much easier, too. I put the grease in directly; no
cartridge.