Moving dirt... box blade vs scraper

[Dadnatron]

I'm currently working on building a new horse farm out of an old bean/corn farm.

I have some dirt work to do, not a HUGE amount, but enough over the next couple years, that I think investing in something which will move the dirt around my 84ac might be useful. I know... I know... 'Hire it out, save yourself' is a truth and I understand it. But $$$ and work interval is an issue. ie, I'm not exactly sure what and when I will need different things done. I have a general plan, but to hire all the dirt work out would be very expensive, if done all at once and even more expensive piecemeal. Besides... I bought the place to enjoy the work, not hire it all out.

So, what I have need for 'NOW' is to smooth out some small berms build along a small hill, in order to reseed it back into pasture. The berms were built for the beans and corn. Sod will prevent any washing... in fact, I'm surprised they were put in at all, given the gentle slope. But, they would be a problem for running horses, so out they must go. I have a place that could use this 'berm dirt' about 100yds away, a shallow wash area that has some small wash ditches, again from the cropland washoff. The pasture just across the road has the same terrain and has no wash issues, but it is in pasture rather than crops.

I will also have other dirt moving needs around the place, I'm sure.

My tractor is a 100hp JD 5100e. Cat 2 hitch. loaded tires 900+lbs each. Ag tires - slightly worn, but still in good condition.

I've been thinking about the monstrosity box at EA

.

But I'm uncertain whether this can move the dirt I need reasonably the distance I need it moved. I have never seen a video or in person, in which someone actually is moving real amounts of dirt any appreciable distance. I've seen ponds cleaned and small piles spread, but never anything approaching what I need done. I don't know whether that is because it is a rare need or whether they just don't do the job. EA... if you want to test this out, I would be happy to make videos with your big box blade moving dirt all over my acreage... just send me the blade and I will put it to work.

Its just that a $4K+ investment in a box blade that doesn't do what I need it to do, isn't a reality. And 'trying it out' with a smaller box blade and failing, doesn't really show me whether at reasonably heavy blade would have done the trick.

So... that brings me to pull scrapers. I KNOW they will do the trick... but then again... they are really One Trick Ponies... as far as I know. I can take that $4K and put it into a used 3-4cu yd scraper and move all the dirt I want. But then again, when I'm done, I'll have a nice rusty yard ornament until I need it again, down the road. I'm leaning this way, because I know it will do the job. But the versatility of the box blade is much more palatable if it would do the job I need.There is a local 3cu yd available for purchase. Nothing for rent.

I'd like to know your thoughts and experience. I'll need MUCH MORE than what I've shown on the pic, but this is the current 'need' and will have to be done this fall if not sooner. I'd like to get it moved before I get the whole thing drilled into pasture. I can drill the parts that I won't be messing with to the Southeast, and leave the 'work area' undrilled so I can work on it. But I need to have a plan for getting the dirt moved... and I'm running out of time.

 

[tractorshopper]

I'd use the box blade to break down the berms to level ground and kind of pile up the spoils pushing them into piles. Then I'd use your loader for transporting the piles to where you want redistribute the soil.

Box blades are great tools. Use mine a lot for driveway maintenance and leveling spots or dragging earth from one area to another, but my dragging from one area to another is nowhere near as far as you'll be dragging yours, hence my comment about using your loader for transport.

If you will do a lot of box blade work, a top-n-tilt set up would be really nice to have. I don't have one so I manually adjust my box blade when using it, but mainly I attack my work from different angles a lot to keep from resetting the box blade frequently so the main adjustments I make are only setting the depth of the ripper shanks for either really breaking something up or more scraping off layer by layer.

I wouldn't hesitate to tackle what you're looking at doing with a box blade and loader by yourself instead of hiring it out. It will be fun tractor therapy for you.

 

[bcp]

Sounds to me like you need the attachment in-between those you mentioned.



BB45 Series Drag Scrapers | Land Pride

Bruce

 

[tractorshopper]

I should have added a toothbar on your loader can really assist with this type of project and turn your loader into a digging machine as well. I dug my pond mainly with my loader with tooth bar and box blade, but mostly with the loader. The box blade is great ballast for loader work.

Also, I have old farm berms on my property and they used to be more steep in some sections, so I used my box blade to cut them down to make it easier to mow, etc, but I just cut the top and pulled the spoils in each direction. I didn't completely remove the berms, but just shape them less steep. If I wanted to remove them completely like you do, I'd do as I mentioned above using the box blade and loader. At the end of the project, with shanks up on the BB, you can really do a nice final grade.

 

[Fallon]

I'd use the box blade to break down the berms to level ground and kind of pile up the spoils pushing them into piles. Then I'd use your loader for transporting the piles to where you want redistribute the soil.

Box blades are great tools. Use mine a lot for driveway maintenance and leveling spots or dragging earth from one area to another, but my dragging from one area to another is nowhere near as far as you'll be dragging yours, hence my comment about using your loader for transport.

If you will do a lot of box blade work, a top-n-tilt set up would be really nice to have. I don't have one so I manually adjust my box blade when using it, but mainly I attack my work from different angles a lot to keep from resetting the box blade frequently so the main adjustments I make are only setting the depth of the ripper shanks for either really breaking something up or more scraping off layer by layer.

I wouldn't hesitate to tackle what you're looking at doing with a box blade and loader by yourself instead of hiring it out. It will be fun tractor therapy for you.

Same. If I'm moving dirt any distance, I scrape a pile together, then use the loader to move it.

TnT makes a box blade work a lot better & a lot easier.

 

[ishiboo]

For just about any size acreage, a box blade is almost a necessity.

But it is not for moving dirt long distances. I am on 1/10th your acreage and if I have to move a pile of dirt, it gets loaded into the dump trailer. It would take forever to move via dragging from even one half the property to the other.

 

[jenkinsph]

I do enough of this type work that I think I can offer a few suggestions.

You should survey the fields to see where improvements should be made to optimize using a cut and fill method. Often NRCS can help you with this. Having a long term plan of what needs to be done to the property might steer you to the right tools for the job. If you know how much dirt needs to be moved and how far it needs to be moved it will be easier to pick the right tools.

Before removing borders or terrace rows I would want a cover crop to reduce erosion first. It is easier and cheaper to touch up with a drill than to fix erosion problems. In most cases these terrace rows were formed from the ground immediately surrounding them, depending on the survey it may be best to put it back where it came from. There is also the possibility that these terrace rows should be left in place but could be cut down some.

 

[STx]

If you're going to be moving dirt around a lot, I'd consider a dump trailer or an old dump truck. You'll quickly discover that the box blade isn't a good tool for moving dirt very far and after about trip number 5, moving it with a loader gets to be a real chore. It's a lot faster to load it into the dump, haul several yards at a time to the new location and dump it.

I would imagine that with a horse farm and your acreage, you'll find lots of uses for a dump.

 

[CCWKen]

You're not too clear on just how much dirt you need to move around. :confused3: But if it's going to be 4-digit yardage, I wouldn't bother with "garden tools". You should invest in some heavy equipment unless time is of no concern. Don't rule out rentals and/or farming the job out either. A loader, dozer and dump truck can move more dirt in one day than you could do with small farm equipment in a year. After it's moved then you should consider a Land Leveler or Draw Grader for final grade and maintenance. Many of these have 20' blades and up.

Here's a 20' Notch Leveler: NOTCH 2' Land Leveler - YouTube

 

[4570Man]

Do you have a loader? No tool that pushes or drags dirt is very good at moving it a long distance. I think you still need a box blade. I'd pile up dirt and you could either scoop it up and carry it in the loader bucket or more efficiently load it in a dump trailer/truck.

 

[IndyIan]

80' is a good maximum distance I want to pull dirt with a box blade. You do want one for digging and shaping your land though, a loader is a poor substitute and if you have rocks over a few inches or tough clay soil its slow going as you have to be careful not to break it.
I'd get a used boxblade from a skip loader and maybe rent a dump trailer and see how you like moving even 5-6 yards at a time. I am always amazed at how little 20 yards seems when I buy a load of gravel for my driveway as I can dig and move that much quite fast with the boxblade, but when you start wanting to raise or lower areas, the yardage gets big fast too.
I'm guessing you could dig move and smooth 150+ yards an hour with your tractor with a 2 yard boxblade as long as you have short pulls.

 

[roadhunter]

Big heavy box blade with hydraulic rippers is one of the most useful implements there is IMO. I rarely take mine off as it works so well for many things from counterweight to snow removal. Put a Top n Tilt kit on and it's' even better.

 

[Dadnatron]

These are all good points, and I've thought a lot about it.

I'm going to have to go look at all the areas I need to work on and think about it some more. I agree, I don't think even a big box blade would be able to realistically move the amount of dirt the distances I need them to go.

I'm still intrigued with the pull scraper however. I have a line on a 5yd scraper which is probably close to the limit of my tractor's ability. I don't have to dig deep, really, its more of a surface scraping and shaping that is needed.

But, I agree that another real option would be Box blade, FEL, and Dump trailer. That would be better than pulling the box blade that far, that is for sure.

I'll check in a week or so and see what the reality looks like with all the beans off and the property completely sprayed. I'll be able to have a better idea at that point.

 

[jeff9366]

I don't think even a big box blade would be able to realistically move the amount of dirt the distances I need them to do.

I'm still intrigued with the pull scraper however. I have a line on a 5yd scraper which is probably close to the limit of my tractor's ability. I don't have to dig deep, really, its more of a surface scraping and shaping that is needed.

Perhaps you need a Dirt Pan, rather than a Box Blade or Scraper:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/267703-dirt-scraper-dirt-pan-towed.html?highlight=


Iowa Farm Equipment -- Durabilt Landscrapers & Dirt Pan

 

[Dadnatron]

Jeff,

Actually... that is what I was calling (and have always heard called) a 'Scraper'.

Actually, I've never before heard it called a 'pan'. If I look up 'pull scrapers' I get variations on what you have posted.

One of the ones I am actually looking at is a Durabilt 3.5yd, "dirt pan" per that website. I am also looking at a 5yd Soilmover of similar design and build. Those 'type' are what I am calling a scraper. I don't want the ones with 'front dolly wheels' because they don't improve traction as they fill. The direct attach get heavier as they fill, thereby improving traction, at least to some degree. At least... that is what I hear.

 

[jenkinsph]

Jeff,

Actually... that is what I was calling (and have always heard called) a 'Scraper'.

Actually, I've never before heard it called a 'pan'. If I look up 'pull scrapers' I get variations on what you have posted.

One of the ones I am actually looking at is a Durabilt 3.5yd, "dirt pan" per that website. I am also looking at a 5yd Soilmover of similar design and build. Those 'type' are what I am calling a scraper. I don't want the ones with 'front dolly wheels' because they don't improve traction as they fill. The direct attach get heavier as they fill, thereby improving traction, at least to some degree. At least... that is what I hear.

The Durabilt scraper you are considering would help with moving the dirt a longer distance. The problems I see with this simple type are shallow cutting depth of 1 to 3 inches and using the 3 pt hitch for height adjustment. If you need to finish grade and move dirt it would be a poor choice.

The better scraper designs control the blade height with hydraulic cylinders so that you can cut to grade and carry the dirt a longer distance. These models do cost more though and you may not have enough work to justify it.

A six ft. wide terrace row that is 18 inches height would have roughly 4.5 cu. ft. of dirt per linear foot. That is about 4 or 5 trips /100 ft. of terrace row using a 3.5 to 4 yd scraper. A 5 yd wheel loader could do this particular job fast and cheap imo. The money saved hiring this out could be better used in other places on the farm as there are countless things to spend money on.

 

[RNeumann]

I would invest in the box scraper and get hydraulic top and tilt- you will love this set-up for years to come! The scraper seams like an expensive one trick pony and honestly with hydro TnT and some practice you will get as good or better results.
Try and find someone who uses one of those scrapers all the time and leaves it on the tractor all time. I don't think you will and if so it will be about 1000 to 1 versus folks with box scrapers.
As for moving dirt long distances. The box can drag dirt. But consider time and fuel when doing big production projects. If it was me I would make piles (as suggested above) and then go rent/hire out a little loader and possibly a dump trailer. You would probably only need it for 1/2 to 1 day.

Other option would be to apply the rental cost to a FEL. But it's easy for us to spend your money! That certainly is not the cheapest.

 

[Turbys_1700]

Get the heaviest biggest box blade you can afford. The EA blade surely fits the bill. There are other lower cost options out there that would serve you well. Other than a FEL I can't think of anther implement more useful than a box blade.

 

[Lgim]

The situation I was in a couple years ago was I needed 3-400 yds of dirt at one end of my acreage to build up the lawn. At the other end I needed drainage cut, which amounted to 3-400 yds of topsoil I had to get rid of. In between was a couple hundred yards of grass and driveway I had to cross. I ended up buying a 3 yd pull scraper to pull behind my early 60s Case 830. I worked for a couple hrs each evening, would go and get 20-30 yds of dirt with the case and then use my little Montana with the front end loader and a disc on the back to fine tune the placement of the dirt and get it ready for seeding.

I could have hired it out, but that would have cost a lot more then the $1500 I spent on the scraper, or bought a trailer and then driven back and forth with the loader which didn't seem appealing. So the scraper was the best option.

If you google "Crown pull scraper" you will see that it is a dolly type scraper. I don't have any pictures of mine. They call it a 3 yd, but I think it would be spilling over on all sides to get 3 yds of dirt in it. My case 830 is rated for about 70 hp and with the weights I have on it should be close to 8000 lbs. The scraper is all she wants to pull. When you are loading, the last 5 seconds are kind of a guess what will happen. Depending on the soil conditions it will fill, pop a wheelie, spin or power out. I think a 5 yd would be plenty for your 100 hp tractor. Keep in mind you have to be pulling at 7 or 8 mph for the pan to fill completely.

As for the dolly or 3pt type of scraper I can see good and bad with both. For what I have done with mine going through ditches etc I'm not sure I would want it attached to a 3pt, or if you are dragging 4 yds of dirt at 10 mph and you hit a rock, arms could bend real quick.

For the original posters situation, a big box blade might work, or if the dirt were to be left where it is a box could spread it out easy, but then again you could push it around with the front-end loader and disc it smooth ready for seeding. If you need the dirt somewhere else the scraper will work and is probably one of the cheaper options.

The other thought I just had was are you sure of what is under the berms, I mean it would be bad to cut all the topsoil and haul it away and then be left with something that won't grow grass.

g

 

[MinnesotaEric]

A hydraulic top link will allow you to get more miles out of your 3PT. you will not need a hydraulic side link. I've used my hydraulic side link exactly twice, both times for cutting in drainage swales.

EA's scraper is CAT2 quick hitch compatible and I suggest using a quick hitch as a quick hitch makes attaching and unattaching into child's play.

I also suggest a scraper that is a few inches wide than your tractor but not much wider as you'll run out of traction pulling a full load of material. 80' is nothing with a hydraulic top link.

My channel on YouTube is filled with examples of using a box scraper.