All electric house and a generator

[Code54]

We are looking into getting a backup generator for our house because we have a bad habit of losing electric fairly often. I have looked at the Generac unit, Briggs and Stratton, Kohler, Cummins, Kubota, and a few others. I am a little concerned with the cheaper propane units because it appears they are to be run for a short duration (24hr) and allowed to recoup, where as the diesel units can pretty much run from oil change to oil change without a break. (we have lost power up to 10 days before and a few days straight occurs about every other year at least). Any thoughts from the experts?

The other concern is the amount of power we need. We are 100% electric due to the fact we can't get gas where we live. (If I get a non diesel generator I would have to use propane to power it and have tank.) We are about 2000 sq ft, heat pump, electric backup heat (want to say 15kw strips), two fridges, freezer, 50gal hot water tank, then the normal lights, tv, etc.... (ok better add wife hair dryer and curling iron......) I am wondering if I can get away with a 21kw unit. Seems a lot of the diesel generators I looked at are 21kw, not seeing a lot of 25kw types. Now normally the heat pump would be working and not the strips in the furnace so my need would be far less - is this a concern? (wet stacking) BUT if the power was out when it is good and cold the heat strips would kick in and we would have a lot of demand so thus the possible need for a bigger unit, or so I am thinking? Anyone know can I limit the furnace to only half the heat strips on generator power or something like that?

May also look at adding a outdoor furnace in the next few years but I know the electrical need is low for them and that would help with the generator demand but for now that is just too costly for me to consider at the same time as a generator.

Any ideas and thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[houstonscott]

Consider a solar system with battery backup. You will get a 30% tax break and the array will reduce your electric load everyday. If you electric company has net metering, you should look very hard at solar as backup power supply rather than all the drawbacks of a standby generator. HS

 

[newbury]

<snip>
The other concern is the amount of power we need. We are 100% electric due to the fact we can't get gas where we live. (If I get a non diesel generator I would have to use propane to power it and have tank.) We are about 2000 sq ft, heat pump, electric backup heat (want to say 15kw strips), two fridges, freezer, 50gal hot water tank, then the normal lights, tv, etc.... (ok better add wife hair dryer and curling iron......) I am wondering if I can get away with a 21kw unit. Seems a lot of the diesel generators I looked at are 21kw, not seeing a lot of 25kw types.<snip>

How handy are you? How important is $$$? How soon do you want to get it?

A quick check of govt auctions shows about 10 diesel generators up for auction NOW, several are 15KW and just closed for < $1K. See the PDF.

Based on past experience the 25KW will probably go for well < $5K.

Many of them are in darn good condition, I used to run them as part of the training courses I taught.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

If you are thinking of moving away from all-electric, consider a pellet stove. They put out a lot of heat, and can be installed with only a vent, not a flue. They require electricity, but only enough to run a fan and the hopper auger. I think you will find that your heat strips exceed the capacity of any reasonably sized generator. Mine are on twin 60 amp 240v. breakers, and when they are both on would really need my 200 amp main service. Fortunately we have wood heat, so when the electricity goes out we don't care. All electric is a sales pitch, not a reasonable rural infrastructure.

 

[techman]

I also have an all electric setup.. Same 2 fridges, one freezer, heat pumps (I have two geo units and one conventional air), water heater, etc. I get by comfortably with a 10KR Kubota powered generator. Diesel is the way to go. Fuel stores forever and much cheaper running costs compared to propane. My setup is a bit automated (for the wife) that on generator, the water heater is cut off. I have a bypass switch, and on a long outage I will shut off the heat pumps for a while while I recharge the water heater. Also running the 3 heat pumps is no problem. before the geo units I had 2 conventional air units, which also ran w/o problem.

As for your backup heat, it depends on the size and mfg. 10KW is usually the biggest single element, so a 15 would be two coils. It is easy to disable the coils with the low voltage circuit that controls them. You could add a switch to disable the coils when the generator is being used. Only on a super cold night might the coils be necessary. If they are off you might just not get quite as warm. If you have 2 coils, again a switch could be added to cut out one of them.

If you do things (like I do) to switch of the water heater, unless needed to recharge it, and watched the backup heat, 10 KW could be enough. 24 KW for sure will take care of you. BTW during a longer outage with my 10 KW set, I burn 0.3 gal/hr on average.

paul

 

[Garandman]

If you are thinking of moving away from all-electric, consider a pellet stove. They put out a lot of heat, and can be installed with only a vent, not a flue. They require electricity, but only enough to run a fan and the hopper auger. I think you will find that your heat strips exceed the capacity of any reasonably sized generator. //

This is about half the houses around here.

OP, If you don't want to buy your own milsurp genset, there are outfits that buy them at auction, refurbish them, and install them. Green Mountain Generator is one up our way. There are a lot of surplus gensets available right now so prices are very appealing if you want diesel. Lots of people up here who heat with fuel oil prefer them. We had Propane so went with Kohler.

 

[dickfoster]

How handy are you? How important is $$$? How soon do you want to get it?

A quick check of govt auctions shows about 10 diesel generators up for auction NOW, several are 15KW and just closed for < $1K. See the PDF.

Based on past experience the 25KW will probably go for well < $5K.

Many of them are in darn good condition, I used to run them as part of the training courses I taught.

That's a good idea. Now you have me looking and I already have a generator.

 

[Garandman]

Many of my "prepper" buddies have MILSURP gensets. Tons of YouTube videos about them: selecting, servicing, installing, you name it. Really a bargain if you need a long-time, diesel genset.

 

[houstonscott]

Right now my solar array is producing 4.4kwh, it's quite, no fuel, meter running backwards. HS

 

[dodge man]

Its just me, but I wouldn't want solar as backup. Its probably a great power source but if the power is off because of bad weather can you count on solar. I'd also look at a diesel, if you have a diesel tractor, you have a way to use up the fuel if it gets old. I'm guessing if you can switch stuff off and on you can get by with a smaller unit then you are thinking. I'd forget about the heat strips if I were you and just figure you can get by without them.

 

[houstonscott]

Its just me, but I wouldn't want solar as backup. Its probably a great power source but if the power is off because of bad weather can you count on solar. I'd also look at a diesel, if you have a diesel tractor, you have a way to use up the fuel if it gets old. I'm guessing if you can switch stuff off and on you can get by with a smaller unit then you are thinking. I'd forget about the heat strips if I were you and just figure you can get by without them.

That's a big investment for system that only works during an outage. With enough battery backup your assertion may not hold water, by the way the array still produces in bad weather. HS

 

[dodge man]

What would the cost be for him to put up a solar array with enough battery backup to power his house? It would be a lot more than a generator. I also realize solar would give him a return on investment. Just my opinion but I have done some reading, but solar from a standpoint of cost and return on investment only makes sense if the cost to tie into the grid is high.

 

[houstonscott]

There are lots of things to consider. Maintaining a Diesel engine, keeping fuel on property, weekly testing. Just what do you want to operate during outages, how involved do YOU want to be in managing power usage for either type of system. Where would you put a diesel generator, noise, weather. Even your physical ability to keep up maintenance in future. It's a big decision, and solar with batteries should be considered. This technology is changing fast right now too. Tesla wall power units and batteries are getting powerful, system management devices are hitting the market now too. It's complicated. The old days of just buy a generator are gone. If the OP is really set on a generator, I'd buy a PTO driven generator, the tractor is there and maintained and ready to go. HS

 

[Code54]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

To address some of the points. We looked at solar a little bit but we are not exactly in a sunny area and have a TON of tree cover. It also seems we use a lot of electric so it may not be the best fit in our situation.

We have a wood burning stove in the living room which heats the house fairly well but the kids both have rooms downstairs and their tv room is down there and it does not get too warm with the wood burner. Thus the wanting to use the furnace. As for by passing the heat strip on one side, good thought. My buddy takes care of our HVAC needs/installs so I am sure he and his guys could set something like that up.

I am not too interested in pellet stove just because I would have to buy them where as I have a pretty much unlimited supply of free wood all around me so it is really hard to pass that up. Do agree the pellet stoves are a great product, but just not in our case. Thank you for the thought however!

Never even thought about Gov. surplus sets, good idea - I will also look at them!

We do have 3 diesel pieces of Eqpt so diesel is appealing that way, the idea of being able to use one large tank to fuel the gen set and the eqpt would be awesome. I briefly looked at a PTO unit but it would be too much for the wife to deal with if I was working or traveling. Figure a backup generator will start itself, power everything and then shut down and she and the kids can have electric and not worry about hooking something up wrong or being out in a storm and dealing with eqpt.

Thank you all for the info and please feel free to continue giving your thoughts and ideas!

 

[ultrarunner]

There are lots of things to consider. Maintaining a Diesel engine, keeping fuel on property, weekly testing.

No more weekly testing by decree of the local Air Quality Management District... every two weeks now ;-)

 

[houstonscott]

No more weekly testing by decree of the local Air Quality Management District... every two weeks now ;-)

Oh, yeah, I forgot the big central commie government in California even wants to control when you test your own generator. How fast can you move? Has

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm interested in the Government surplus stuff, but have never found anything remotely close to where I live. I've seen some portable light towers for sale with big diesel generators that where pretty cheap and I've been thinking about going that route.

 

[houstonscott]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. To address some of the points. We looked at solar a little bit but we are not exactly in a sunny area and have a TON of tree cover. It also seems we use a lot of electric so it may not be the best fit in our situation. We have a wood burning stove in the living room which heats the house fairly well but the kids both have rooms downstairs and their tv room is down there and it does not get too warm with the wood burner. Thus the wanting to use the furnace. As for by passing the heat strip on one side, good thought. My buddy takes care of our HVAC needs/installs so I am sure he and his guys could set something like that up. I am not too interested in pellet stove just because I would have to buy them where as I have a pretty much unlimited supply of free wood all around me so it is really hard to pass that up. Do agree the pellet stoves are a great product, but just not in our case. Thank you for the thought however! Never even thought about Gov. surplus sets, good idea - I will also look at them! We do have 3 diesel pieces of Eqpt so diesel is appealing that way, the idea of being able to use one large tank to fuel the gen set and the eqpt would be awesome. I briefly looked at a PTO unit but it would be too much for the wife to deal with if I was working or traveling. Figure a backup generator will start itself, power everything and then shut down and she and the kids can have electric and not worry about hooking something up wrong or being out in a storm and dealing with eqpt. Thank you all for the info and please feel free to continue giving your thoughts and ideas!

Just remember while your thinking this morning my solar has already produced over 5kwh, and is running at 3.4kw and spinning up. No fuss, no fuel, and all that's happened is the sun came up.... Incredible... HS

 

[dickfoster]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

To address some of the points. We looked at solar a little bit but we are not exactly in a sunny area and have a TON of tree cover. It also seems we use a lot of electric so it may not be the best fit in our situation.

We have a wood burning stove in the living room which heats the house fairly well but the kids both have rooms downstairs and their tv room is down there and it does not get too warm with the wood burner. Thus the wanting to use the furnace. As for by passing the heat strip on one side, good thought. My buddy takes care of our HVAC needs/installs so I am sure he and his guys could set something like that up.

I am not too interested in pellet stove just because I would have to buy them where as I have a pretty much unlimited supply of free wood all around me so it is really hard to pass that up. Do agree the pellet stoves are a great product, but just not in our case. Thank you for the thought however!

Never even thought about Gov. surplus sets, good idea - I will also look at them!

We do have 3 diesel pieces of Eqpt so diesel is appealing that way, the idea of being able to use one large tank to fuel the gen set and the eqpt would be awesome. I briefly looked at a PTO unit but it would be too much for the wife to deal with if I was working or traveling. Figure a backup generator will start itself, power everything and then shut down and she and the kids can have electric and not worry about hooking something up wrong or being out in a storm and dealing with eqpt.

Thank you all for the info and please feel free to continue giving your thoughts and ideas!

Maybe you should look at some way to circulate the heat from the wood stove to the areas of the house it doesn't reach now. I run the circulation fans in my HVAC to circulate the heat from the wood stove throughout the house. I did have to move the cold air return of one system but I've got the whole house heated mostly with wood heat now. A circ fan doesn't use much power.

 

[CurlyDave]

Maybe you should look at some way to circulate the heat from the wood stove to the areas of the house it doesn't reach now. I run the circulation fans in my HVAC to circulate the heat from the wood stove throughout the house. I did have to move the cold air return of one system but I've got the whole house heated mostly with wood heat now. A circ fan doesn't use much power.

This is a great idea. We have heat pumps and a propane emergency generator, but enough power to run the heat pumps is just not available.

We cut back our lifestyle when the main power is out, we keep the refer and freezer running, the lights and convenience outlets, but just don't use the electric oven, drier, washer, or heat pumps. We heat with the propane fireplace, and can supplement any cold spot with a 1500 watt plug-in heater. We still have TV and computers, but do have to make some adjustments.