Rotting deck, porch, or piazza

[Oldpath05]

Another one of my easy fixes is turning into the domino effect, again. One of my 15 year old carrying beams under my porch is suffering from wood rot. Beam was two Hemlocks 2x8"sx10'-6" nailed together, 1x4"s top and bottom. Part of the blame is on my shoe string construction budget that never seams to just go away, the other part of the blame is on wood rots. But the biggest blame of wood rot is that I haven't heard of a wood preservatives that will go on with one coat, last ateast 10 years and be affordable $$.

I'm replacing with a 6x10"x10'-6", but in taking the old one down, I noticed the two vertical 8x8"x6' post are soft on bottom near ground and top, then seeing half dozen floor joist are rotting where they sit on the beam, if I keep looking, probably find more wood that needs to be replaced.......

The up side is I noticed the issue before having a gathering on my porch/deck......and now having a band sawmill, I can saw out exactly what's needed, just have to find something to stain the new lumber with, tried California Storm Stains, <not impressed. The Homedepot stain I used 15 years ago probably helped the wood rot, they might have better stain now....Know what I'm doing next Saturday

 

[GLyford]

I have heard that spraying a 50-50 mix of used motor oil and diesel every other year or so, not only protects the wood, it keeps yellowjackets from nesting on the structure.

If you don't feel comfortable with either the look, environmental impact, or application frequency of that, have you considered using white oak rather than hemlock? (while red oak is usually easier to get, avoid it because with the very open grain it only lasts about as long as unprotected pine)

The other think I find help is flashing everywhere you can, along the tops of beams, etc., and using spacer blocks at the bottoms of posts to keep them up off the masonry. Even a chunk of asphalt shingle might be better than setting right on the concrete footing/pier.

Also, all those little classic touches the old time craftsmen used to protect untreated lumber were there for a reason, the angled end cuts, the corner beading that acted like drip edges the keep water from running back under, etc. Even just a 1/8" saw kerf set back a 1/4" from the edge, and a couple licks with a hand plane or sander to round off the bead a smidge can help.

Once upon a time, I would have recommended creosote. None of the current crop of clear wood treatments are rater for much more than a year or two. A proper paint job might last you 10 years, maybe, but is probably pushing it.

 

[Cord]

You can spend the money once to do the job right, or spend it twice to redo the job. Going cheap has never saved me any money. Got a brother-in-law who thinks like you. Every time he goes to the dump the kids crawl over the pile and bring home more than they came with. Snowblowers, mowers, ATV's, motorcycles and snowmobiles are their projects right now. I mean, if you find a snowmobile at the dump, don't you think it's there for a reason??? Yet, he's got the kids trained so they think a 1979 Pantera can be fixed and sold for a profit!

 

[Oldpath05]

I have heard that spraying a 50-50 mix of used motor oil and diesel every other year or so, not only protects the wood, it keeps yellowjackets from nesting on the structure.

If you don't feel comfortable with either the look, environmental impact, or application frequency of that, have you considered using white oak rather than hemlock? (while red oak is usually easier to get, avoid it because with the very open grain it only lasts about as long as unprotected pine)

The other think I find help is flashing everywhere you can, along the tops of beams, etc., and using spacer blocks at the bottoms of posts to keep them up off the masonry. Even a chunk of asphalt shingle might be better than setting right on the concrete footing/pier.

Also, all those little classic touches the old time craftsmen used to protect untreated lumber were there for a reason, the angled end cuts, the corner beading that acted like drip edges the keep water from running back under, etc. Even just a 1/8" saw kerf set back a 1/4" from the edge, and a couple licks with a hand plane or sander to round off the bead a smidge can help.

Once upon a time, I would have recommended creosote. None of the current crop of clear wood treatments are rater for much more than a year or two. A proper paint job might last you 10 years, maybe, but is probably pushing it.

I built a 8x16ft pantry on the north of my house last year, I put used motor oil on that carrying beam, then let it soak in for two weeks, then installed it. If I have to constantly re-aply something every 2-3 years, might as well use oil. Dont have any White Oak on my land, mostly Hemlock, white Pine, wish I had White Cedar better yet Gofer Wood, I usually build with what I have.
A guy at work today mention tar paper on top of beams will help, maybe, it has tar in it, and my hats off to them old time craftsmen, they know their stuff, I'm just 3 grades above a chainsaw carpenter.
Once upon a time, I would have recommended creosote. <<<Why not anymore?

 

[Oldpath05]

You can spend the money once to do the job right, or spend it twice to redo the job. Going cheap has never saved me any money. Got a brother-in-law who thinks like you. Every time he goes to the dump the kids crawl over the pile and bring home more than they came with. Snowblowers, mowers, ATV's, motorcycles and snowmobiles are their projects right now. I mean, if you find a snowmobile at the dump, don't you think it's there for a reason??? Yet, he's got the kids trained so they think a 1979 Pantera can be fixed and sold for a profit!

$$$$$$$That's the number one problem why nothing gets done right at my house including the house, number two is the lack of know-how.
Your brother-in-law must think that, one's mans trash is another mans treasure, and it's great to take kids to the dump and bring everything with a motor, that way the kids get to tare it apart and see how thinks work, you know when kids have gotten smarter when they can put the stuff back together with no extra parts.

 

[GLyford]

Once upon a time, I would have recommended creosote. <<<Why not anymore?

Because someone figured out that the poisons that kill termites, ants, and mold spores in wood also kill people (carcinogen, so they say) so you can't buy it anymore. Leastaways, not around here. About the same time as they reformulated the arsenic and copper chromate out of the pressure treated wood (I have 30 year old PT on the property that has lasted longer than stuff bought 5 or 10 years ago). I think if you are selling telephone poles to utilities you can still get it. Probably have to account for every gram.

Actually, not being able to find it to protect wood is not my biggest complaint about them having banned it.

My biggest complaint is that it was one of the key ingredients in my favorite bug repellent "old time woodsman" which they no longer make for the above reason. There's nothing like being 3/4 of the way up Mt. Washington, soaked through with perspiration being followed the rest of the way by determined deer fly not able to get closer than 6". Had the side benefit of keeping social people away from us introverts, the stuff was...pungent.

 

[GLyford]

you know when kids have gotten smarter when they can put the stuff back together with no extra parts.

I could put stuff back together...but when my brother did it, it would actually run.

 

[CCWKen]

Hey! I got my Whitney-Jensen bench top punch from the salvage yard. Cleaned it up, painted it and put it back to work. I think I paid $10-12 for it (10-cents a pound). My golf cart also came from the same place. It needed a little body work (it's old enough to actually be made of metal) and some wiring but still plenty of miles left on it and it works great. I had planed to convert it to gas using a cast iron 10hp Tecumseh from the same place but never got to that. Not counting the new batteries, I think I had $50 in it. People will throw stuff away if it has a scratch or squeaks. The place is gold mine for those capable of a little mechanical/manual labor.

You can tell when Winter is over. The place fills up with lawn tractors. Most don't need anything more than a belt and an oil change. I got two $500 wheel motors with hubs and brakes for something like $10. Not to mention a 5-segment hydraulic pump and a box of various control valves for basically pocket change. I'm constantly amazed at what people throw out, disgusted really, simply because they can't change a light bulb. The throw-away society is alive and well.

 

[LD1]

I would think a pair of PT 2x10's or 2x12's would last longer than anything you can mill off your property if you dont have white oak. Regardless of what you come up with to slather all over the wood.

 

[polebarntips]

go with 2x12's should be your best option.

 

[ultrarunner]

Hey! I got my Whitney-Jensen bench top punch from the salvage yard. Cleaned it up, painted it and put it back to work. I think I paid $10-12 for it (10-cents a pound). My golf cart also came from the same place. It needed a little body work (it's old enough to actually be made of metal) and some wiring but still plenty of miles left on it and it works great. I had planed to convert it to gas using a cast iron 10hp Tecumseh from the same place but never got to that. Not counting the new batteries, I think I had $50 in it. People will throw stuff away if it has a scratch or squeaks. The place is gold mine for those capable of a little mechanical/manual labor.

You can tell when Winter is over. The place fills up with lawn tractors. Most don't need anything more than a belt and an oil change. I got two $500 wheel motors with hubs and brakes for something like $10. Not to mention a 5-segment hydraulic pump and a box of various control valves for basically pocket change. I'm constantly amazed at what people throw out, disgusted really, simply because they can't change a light bulb. The throw-away society is alive and well.

I see this all the time but the dumps do not allow scavenging...

Friends will decided to clean out the garage and everything goes... and they pay someone to haul...

America is truly the land of plenty based on what we toss out.

 

[ultrarunner]

Because someone figured out that the poisons that kill termites, ants, and mold spores in wood also kill people (carcinogen, so they say) so you can't buy it anymore. Leastaways, not around here. About the same time as they reformulated the arsenic and copper chromate out of the pressure treated wood (I have 30 year old PT on the property that has lasted longer than stuff bought 5 or 10 years ago). I think if you are selling telephone poles to utilities you can still get it. Probably have to account for every gram.

Actually, not being able to find it to protect wood is not my biggest complaint about them having banned it.

My biggest complaint is that it was one of the key ingredients in my favorite bug repellent "old time woodsman" which they no longer make for the above reason. There's nothing like being 3/4 of the way up Mt. Washington, soaked through with perspiration being followed the rest of the way by determined deer fly not able to get closer than 6". Had the side benefit of keeping social people away from us introverts, the stuff was...pungent.

In Austria the wood deck and railings are still excellent after 30 years...

At the time I built I asked what would be the best preservative and Xyladecor was the best... about $80 for 4 liters...

Tried to find it here and no luck... also, the original has been reformulated so who knows how effective.

Just found this link... maybe the same formula or not?

Pacific Paint (Boysen) Phils. New Design, Inc., - Oil Wood Stains - BOYSEN^(R) Xyladecor™

My 12 year old deck joists are deteriorating in Washington State... so I feel you pain.

 

[CCWKen]

I see this all the time but the dumps do not allow scavenging...

Friends will decided to clean out the garage and everything goes... and they pay someone to haul...

America is truly the land of plenty based on what we toss out.

The place I go to is a salvage or metal reclamation yard--Not a "dump". I missed getting a New Holland round bailer by less than an hour. I saw it but the office said it was sold and a guy was coming back with the money. Lots of farm iron shows up as well as factory equipment and New Old Stock.

Oh yeah, sorry for the drift. But I didn't start it.

What ever happened to treated lumber? Can't we get that any more? I always used treated lumber for decks and porches. I picked up some "treated" 2x4s but when I got it home I noticed the stapled label on the end said; "Not for ground contact". What's up with that? They don't want us poisoning the bugs any more?

 

[ultrarunner]

Some can still get it depending on who and the application.

It isn't sold at the box stores anymore around here... now they carry the "Brown" treated which doesn't have the longevity.

I built fences 30 years ago that are still very sound with the 40 year "Green" tinted 4x4 posts... no complaints.

 

[Oldpath05]

Because someone figured out that the poisons that kill termites, ants, and mold spores in wood also kill people (carcinogen, so they say) so you can't buy it anymore. Leastaways, not around here. About the same time as they reformulated the arsenic and copper chromate out of the pressure treated wood (I have 30 year old PT on the property that has lasted longer than stuff bought 5 or 10 years ago). I think if you are selling telephone poles to utilities you can still get it. Probably have to account for every gram.

Actually, not being able to find it to protect wood is not my biggest complaint about them having banned it.

My biggest complaint is that it was one of the key ingredients in my favorite bug repellent "old time woodsman" which they no longer make for the above reason. There's nothing like being 3/4 of the way up Mt. Washington, soaked through with perspiration being followed the rest of the way by determined deer fly not able to get closer than 6". Had the side benefit of keeping social people away from us introverts, the stuff was...pungent.

I remember using that woodsman fly repellent years ago, lots of it, thought it was still available. So creosote is whats on telephone poles, wandering what made them last so long. Carcinogen<< is this a high tech word for saying, if someone drinks creosote like kool-aid, it could cause going to the for-ever ever land. Sounds like, wood can be treated to last a long time, but the side effect is a short life, what kind of deal is that, can't I have my cake and eat it too..

 

[Oldpath05]

I would think a pair of PT 2x10's or 2x12's would last longer than anything you can mill off your property if you dont have white oak. Regardless of what you come up with to slather all over the wood.

Your right, but I'm not genetically engineered that way, I'm determined to use the logs I have, might call it stubbornness, in the mean time I'll keep looking for some good-ish slathering mumbo jumbo gumbo...

 

[Oldpath05]

In Austria the wood deck and railings are still excellent after 30 years...

At the time I built I asked what would be the best preservative and Xyladecor was the best... about $80 for 4 liters...

Tried to find it here and no luck... also, the original has been reformulated so who knows how effective.

Just found this link... maybe the same formula or not?

Pacific Paint (Boysen) Phils. New Design, Inc., - Oil Wood Stains - BOYSEN^(R) Xyladecor™

My 12 year old deck joists are deteriorating in Washington State... so I feel you pain.

30 years, that's outstanding, maybe they have better wood, and never heard of that stain, I'll see if it;s available in this galaxy, don't want to cross the neutral zone.

My 12 year old deck joists are deteriorating in Washington State... so I feel you pain.<<<Yup half dozen of my deck joist are on there way out. You know the old saying, " misery loves company".

 

[sld]

I wrapped all the joists and stringers on my deck with tar paper covering the top and 2 sides. This was 14 years ago and they are still like new.

I would think covering the wood with something, like tar paper, is better than any preservative. Even using thin metal would be good like they cover window trim with now. I guess whatever it takes to keep it dry is the key.

 

[Oldpath05]

I wrapped all the joists and stringers on my deck with tar paper covering the top and 2 sides. This was 14 years ago and they are still like new.

I would think covering the wood with something, like tar paper, is better than any preservative. Even using thin metal would be good like they cover window trim with now. I guess whatever it takes to keep it dry is the key.

Think your right, tomorrow when I replace one of my outside joist on one end of deck, it will be a 4x8x12' and tar paper will be applied on top and down the sides.
After I get that joist in, next will be the outer one piece 6x8x10', carrying beam TP applied, then re-level, then get two new 8x8x6'-6" post, one was getting bad so I'll replace both, TP will be applied, all done trusting paint, wood stain, and these two year pain in the blank wood preservatives.

 

[CurlyDave]

One of the few things left we can treat wood with is borax. There is a commercial product called Tim-Bor used to treat wood, or you can mix up a solution of good old 20 mule team Boraxo and soak the wood in it.

Do a Google search for "borax wood treatment" or similar and you will find lots of information.

Now, the boron compounds are water soluble, so I would be inclined to treat the wood, let it dry and then cover it with tar paper or metal flashing to protect it from having the borax dissolved out in the rain.

This is cheap and reasonably effective.