CK35 HST Engine Stop Solenoid Fail

skipples · May 30, 2016

My tractor wouldn't restart after running fine a few minutes earlier. Checked fuses, etc, then determined that the fuel shutoff solenoid has a bad "pull" side, although the "hold" side still works. I can run the tractor if I pull the solenoid, turn the key on, then manually retract the shaft and reinstall the device. Once the key switch is off, though, it won't restart and I need to repeat the procedure.

I've still got a few weeks left on my 36 month warranty and can't seem to find out if this part is covered and even if it is, the dealer (who didn't sell me the machine) is a hundred mile round trip through Los Angeles traffic. It may be worth it to me to just buy a new one if I can find it in a few days' time but I'm wondering if anyone has had this problem and, if so, was it covered under warranty? Another question is how does one prove warranty status to a non-selling dealer and can they just provide a new one under warranty if I take the part and tractor purchase paperwork to their location?

ritcheyvs · May 30, 2016

Similar problem has been reported here and it turned out to be the the stop solenoid relay vs the actual solenoid.

The "hold" coil is powered directly from the key switch. The "pull" coil is powered through a relay on the "firewall" and that relay is energized for about one second by a pulse from the "display unit."

Based on reports here, the relay is the most likely culprit. The stop solenoid and display unit are unique Kioti parts but the relay is a common automotive relay available at car parts places, like Autozone, Oreillys, etc.

You can easily test the relay. There should be two identical relays on the firewall: one for the starter and one for the stop solenoid. If you swap connectors on these two relays (and the SS relay is bad) you should hear the distinctive SS "clack" when you turn the key but the starter probably won't crank. If that's what happens, get a new relay locally (not expensive) or from a dealer (should be free). If swapping connectors doesn't "fix" the SS (and probably break the starter), it's time to get out the volt meter and systematically trace the problem. The schematic should look something like this:

skipples · May 30, 2016

Thanks for the good info. I should have mentioned that my volt meter indicates the relay clicks and energizes the pull side of the solenoid connector with about 11 volts for about a second. Pretty sure its the solenoid but I'll double check the relay just to make certain.

ritcheyvs · May 30, 2016

Is that 11v with the SS connected? If it's with the connector off, you could still have high-resistance in the relay contacts. Use the ohms setting on your meter on the SS pull terminals to see if the pull coil winding is open (high ohms). If so, you have a bad coil for sure (first one I've heard about). The SS isn't that expensive (<$100). See Item #20 in this link.

k0ua · May 30, 2016

I just helped a member in Idaho today over the phone with a similar problem. He had bought a new Stop Solenoid but that did not fix the problem. A new relay fixed it. A quick ohms check would tell us if the pull coils is open on your solenoid. Maybe he would sell you his spare?

skipples · May 30, 2016

Well, bless your soul! When I switched the relays, the pull coil clicked loudly and my Kioti howled!
Now I need to figure out what the bad relay is connected to and get another one quickly. Maybe my local shop will be able to order it: T4180-69961 is the part number.
I'll buy you a beer...or two... if I'm out your way....

k0ua · May 30, 2016

skipples said:
Well, bless your soul! When I switched the relays, the pull coil clicked loudly and my Kioti howled!
Now I need to figure out what the bad relay is connected to and get another one quickly. Maybe my local shop will be able to order it: T4180-69961 is the part number.
I'll buy you a beer...or two... if I'm out your way....

You can buy them all day at the auto parts store.. for less $

skipples · May 30, 2016

Yeah? I'm finding the Omron automotive version at Amazon for $5.50 + shipping.....about half what the online Kioti dealers charge and they want $20+ to ship to the left coast. Part number G8JN-1C6T-F-R-DC12 has a resistor and G8JN-1C6T-F-DC12 is without one. I'll check Napa tomorrow.

k0ua · May 30, 2016

Lets see, I may have a photo of one here somewhere..I think this is one O'Reilly automotive carries, but you may not have an O'Reilly's out there as I think they are Regional.

skipples · May 31, 2016

That's not an exact match for my machine; it uses a 30/20 Amp, 5 pin version.

ritcheyvs · May 31, 2016

Take the bad one with you to the auto parts store to be sure the connector will fit. Going to a higher amp rating (e.g. 40 or 50) is fine and may make the part last longer. But don't go to a lower amp rating (lower than 30). The SS pull coil draws 26 amp, as I recall. The stock relay 30/20 rating means the normally-open contacts are rated for 30 amp; those are the ones that feed the SS. The normally-closed contacts (not used in this case) are rated for 20 amps.

There are three of these relays. The two identical ones power the starter solenoid and the SS. The odd one (with higher 60 amp rating) feeds the glow plugs. For some unknown reason, at least one other owner who switched connectors reported that the relay that wouldn't pull the SS still worked fine for the starter. But that may not last. If it were me, I'd replace a marginal or unreliable relay while I'm thinking about it.

ADDED: This being the second such report (swapping connectors fixed no-crank or no SS retract) I wonder if the problem could be high resistance at the connector (from dirt, grease, corrosion, etc.) that got polished by removing and reconnecting the connectors?

skipples · May 31, 2016

Everything is working fine now that I switched the two relays. I'll probably just replace both to be sure.

skipples · Jun 2, 2016

Well, that was short-lived. The bad relay started to fail intermittently the second day so I replaced it with the four pin, 30 amp unit from O'Reilly. Works fine so far.

skipples · Jun 3, 2016

I found the 5 pin version at Amazon so I'll replace both and have spares:Amazon.com: 5 Pack - EPAuto 3/4 AMP Relay Harness Spdt 12V Bosch Style: Automotive

k0ua · Jun 3, 2016

skipples said:
I found the 5 pin version at Amazon so I'll replace both and have spares:Amazon.com: 5 Pack - EPAuto 3/4 AMP Relay Harness Spdt 12V Bosch Style: Automotive

Probably cheaper than a single relay at your Kioti dealer, and you get sockets too if you needed them

gladehound · May 12, 2021

Just adding my experience. I have a 2013 Kioti DS4510HS and 2 days ago I had the exact same problem. Wouldn't start. Pulled the stop solenoid and it started. Tested everything with a meter. Couldn't find anything wrong. Replaced the stop solenoid relay with the starter relay and it worked fine (didn't try the reverse). Just ordered a 4 pack of 5 prong 40/30amp relays from Amazon for $10 and they'll be here in 2 days. Had it not been for this thread I would have bought a new stop solenoid. I'm thankful for this thread!

SylvainG · May 12, 2021

ritcheyvs said:
Take the bad one with you to the auto parts store to be sure the connector will fit. Going to a higher amp rating (e.g. 40 or 50) is fine and may make the part last longer. But don't go to a lower amp rating (lower than 30). The SS pull coil draws 26 amp, as I recall. The stock relay 30/20 rating means the normally-open contacts are rated for 30 amp; those are the ones that feed the SS. The normally-closed contacts (not used in this case) are rated for 20 amps.

There are three of these relays. The two identical ones power the starter solenoid and the SS. The odd one (with higher 60 amp rating) feeds the glow plugs. For some unknown reason, at least one other owner who switched connectors reported that the relay that wouldn't pull the SS still worked fine for the starter. But that may not last. If it were me, I'd replace a marginal or unreliable relay while I'm thinking about it.

ADDED: This being the second such report (swapping connectors fixed no-crank or no SS retract) I wonder if the problem could be high resistance at the connector (from dirt, grease, corrosion, etc.) that got polished by removing and reconnecting the connectors?

In my case, my 2010 LK30 wouldn't spin its starter. Swapped stop and starter relay and tractor started and stopped fine. Put the relays where they were, starter wouldn't spin again. Tried swapping again, worked fine. Tried a couple more times and can reproduce it 100% of the time. Dealer replaced the starter relay and it has worked fine since. Go figure...

grsthegreat · May 13, 2021

Those relays fail more than you think. My cab tractor uses the same relays for breaks, lights, wipers, etc. some are dual relays some single relays. Ive replaced 4 different ones over 9 years. I have spares in shop now.