Chainsaw versus max. bar length?

[motownbrowne]

I don't think that this is how most people interpreted your first post. I think most read it that you do not use full throttle when cutting under load - which is nuts. Before starting the cut is another story.

A properly sharpened chain and appropriate pressure (should be minimal with sharp teeth and correct rake depth) should load the saw so that it is not running at "full" rpm when at full throttle.

I knew what he was talking about. Not quite sure how you can guess what "most people" thought...

 

[dickfoster]

What's the biggest bar that I can (should) put on a 57cc saw (for just a few cuts on one big tree)?

I've ran a firewood saws for about 20+ years and have had no problem running a Husky 55 (53cc) with a 16" bar. My other "big" (not really, but bigger) saw is a Husky 257 (57 cc, 3.6hp (2.7kW)) with a 16" (but maybe a 18") bar.
97% of my use is limbing/firewood, so I don't mind those rare occasions when I have a few cuts on the rare big trunk where you might have to hit it from two sides to get through it with a 16" bar. For me I'd rather run a lighter saw all day when you don't really need that big saw horsepower for 95% of the cuts.

I say this because despite all the suggestions I'll get to go spend $800+ on a professional grade saw that weighs 1/2 ton, I don't want one!

A pretty big tree (elm?) fell over in the field, and from the way it sets, I'm thinking I want a (temporary) bigger/biggest bar on the 57cc to make those ~1/2 dozen cuts on the trunk.

Husky says the biggest you should put on the 57cc (and 53cc no matter what size chain pitch?) is 20". In reality, could I go bigger (24") and just baby it? I really want "reach", not horsepower and speed.

Anybody have any insight, experience or suggestions?
(Other than buy a bigger saw )

View attachment 462731

Actually the pro saws weigh less and have less vibration. Pro saws are made to work with and run all day long. Be careful with that tree, it looks dangerous.

I'd get some support under that thing before I started sawing on it but I don't do that kind of thing every day either. Be careful.

 

[mkr7734]

I knew what he was talking about. Not quite sure how you can guess what "most people" thought...

Yeah more like I drive my saw like you drive a truck up a hill. If you want to go 60 mph as the hill gets steeper you got to go deeper in the throttle. When I am getting a good drive into the wood with a nice cut, no over rev and no bog, that is where I want to be. It may well not be wide open in some poop wood where it is so soft your can just eat it but in good wood it is pressure into the wood to and throttle to keep it working at the best chain speed for the cut. Even then depending on the wood I may not hit full throttle but that is only on very soft or rotten wood. Most good wood needs more.

 

[4570Man]

If I'm cutting smaller or nearly rotten wood it often doesn't provide enough resistance to slow the saw, and WOT can't be used. My big saw will rip through a 6" softwood like it wasn't even there. If I'm cutting larger wood I use WOT and take as big of a bite the saw can handle.

 

[mkr7734]

If I'm cutting smaller or nearly rotten wood it often doesn't provide enough resistance to slow the saw, and WOT can't be used. My big saw will rip through a 6" softwood like it wasn't even there. If I'm cutting larger wood I use WOT and take as big of a bite the saw can handle.

BINGO, what I was trying to say. I have neighbors that will cut anything at WOT and as I said, their nuts. Would you put a brick on your car throttle and walk away????? :laughing:

 

[newbury]

Since the tree is chopped but the discussion continues:

One of the reasons for a limited bar length on that size saw is the oiling capability. Often times the oil pump is a limiting factor, not just the power of the saw. Some of the bigger saws, like my 395, have an adjustable oil flow that allow for the use of a variety of bar lengths while getting proper lubrication. That being said, I've used a 42" bar on my 372, and it turned it and cut ok. The 395 is better for both power and lubrication, but for one time use- I think you'd be just fine running a 24" bar on your saw. Skip chain might be nice but I doubt it's required, and it can be tougher to obtain.

I thought all but tiny saws had adjustable oilers (all mine do). But that doesn't mean the oiler will put out enough oil for what you want.

I like to see at least a little oil flung off the end of my bar when I go WOT. My old Stihl 021 does that. My John Deere CS62 does that. My 088 just barely does. But my Stihl 660's didn't.

There were threads on ArboristSite about lack of oil. There may have been coordination with the EPA to DECREASE the waste. However I know my two 660's didn't put out enough oil for my 42" bar and ripping chain, so I bought them high output oilers (the same thing they sell to the Aussies STOCK). Now I can virtually oil walls IF I WANT TO, but turn it back when I don't need it.

I think that Stihl puts a lot of effort into chain design and bar design and coordinates it with their oiler design. So a recommended Stihl combo works well. But put on a 3rd partY chain and 3rd party bar and you may run dry.

Other manufacturers may not care. My JD CS62 spits oil all the time.

:thumbsup: I put a 28" (gulp) and a standard spaced toothed chain (skip tooth wasn't immediately available, (I'm not the most patient guy when I want to get things done). Even with that setup, the 57cc saw worked fine. ( Yes I know, a new $800-$900 saw for these dozen cuts would of worked better!)

Good point about the oiler, which I should of investigated more beforehand. I could tell the chain was running too dry for my taste. So on that first day, I just stopped very often to feel the bar and make sure it wasn't overheating, and (lightly) rev it a few times under no load to get some oil on it and repeat. If I'd had the manual on me or more experience I would of seen how easy it is to adjust the oil flow with the only tool I had on me (The chainsaw "skrench" tool?)

I started on the top end of the tree and spent one afternoon just cutting the tops with my 18" saw. Some of those branches were under a lot of pressure, but thinking ahead and using wedges did the job. Only got the saw pinched once (stupid mistake, aren't they all), but the wedges easily got her out, and I used them religiously afterwards. I only had one "Oh-sh*t! Run!!" moment, which wasn't really that bad when she popped and snapped and the trunk dropped about 2 feet.
The reason I started on the top end of the tree was because I figured that the root ball would keep it from rolling (on me!) when I was cutting off the limbs keeping it suspended in the air. That seemed to work well.

Glad to read you "got er' done" and kept your chain wet. Now you can justify getting a good 90 or 120CC saw FOR NEXT TIME.

And I just looked at a Stihl dealer site. The 660 size now has the largest bar a 25" I run 28's and 32's when I'm not milling.

 

[CobyRupert]

Yep, tonight I cranked the oiler screw open as much as she'd turn. Testing it over snow you can eventually see it throw what I think is oil ( it was dark and headlamp is only so bright); still wish it was throwing more, but she wasn't built for the 24". C'est la vie.
I was using the winter bar oil on a warm day thinking that would flow better.
I saw in the manual , under "monthly maintenance", that you should flush the oil tank with gasoline.
Has anyone ever done this?
Does it help flow?
I'll think I'll try it. Can't hurt.
...unless I forget it's in there.

 

[4570Man]

Yep, tonight I cranked the oiler screw open as much as she'd turn. Testing it over snow you can eventually see it throw what I think is oil ( it was dark and headlamp is only so bright); still wish it was throwing more, but she wasn't built for the 24". C'est la vie. I was using the winter bar oil on a warm day thinking that would flow better. I saw in the manual , under "monthly maintenance", that you should flush the oil tank with gasoline. Has anyone ever done this? Does it help flow? I'll think I'll try it. Can't hurt. ...unless I forget it's in there. <img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=463752"/>

Yeah, I did it when I accidentally filled the oil tank up with gasoline. At least I didn't fill the gas up with oil.

 

[mkr7734]

Yep, tonight I cranked the oiler screw open as much as she'd turn. Testing it over snow you can eventually see it throw what I think is oil ( it was dark and headlamp is only so bright); still wish it was throwing more, but she wasn't built for the 24".

Cranking up the oil output is fine but then you have to watch that you don't run out of oil before gas. I have my oilier set high and I know not to fill the tank more than 3/4 full or it will run dry on oil before it runs out of gas. Once you know how soon it runs out of oil it is not hard to just fill the tank less. I always to fill the tank so I know I will run out of gas before oil.

 

[arrow]

What we did was to cut off the root ball first. Then skid the tree at a pivot. This maneuver tended to lessen the availability of "sprung" branches and to have the tree supported by the ground for stability. In your case, I would have cut off the root ball about 6-10' up from it. For a 30 inched I would have used 3 wedges and have made a straight downward cut with the wedges jammed in the top cut and have made an undercut first. I've seen more times than I can remember when guys used the undercut to finish, the saw had a better chance of getting crushed. This now gives you the opportunity to section the stem and skid them out of the way with your JD. The key to tree tops is to lessen as much tension as possible by taking the weight of the stem away. I would then drag the crown to a landing and cut er up.
I also have a 257 and it can run ok with a 20" bar for limbing. It gets a bit anemic when sectioning stems with the bar buried. It can be done but I seem not to be able to lose the concept of "production mode" from when I was logging.
At least you have something (bar) to tackle bigger stuff on the rare occasion it presents itself without having to spend big money. If you needed to justify the expense: bigger saws running longer bars are great for stumping if you are so inclined.