Sub soiler - bevel leading edge or not?

[Jim Timber]

I got a 1x6" chunk of AR400 today for my sub soiler shank and now the question is whether or not to bevel the leading edge above the tooth or leave it flat?

Does it make any difference?

 

[bamboozled]

I would be interested to find out as well.

I modified my tractor supply special and welded a piece of 1"x1/4" flat stock to the shank, then built it up with welds and ground it to a knife edge. I haven't had a chance to test it yet tho, hope to try it this weekend to cut some roots and rip some small stumps out.

 

[Fallon]

I've thought about sharpening the shank all the way up on mine on occasion. Especially if I think about using it like a cable plow. Have yet to try it though.

 

[npalen]

I don't believe it would make much difference other than weakening the cross section slightly. The soil is going to be fractured anyway when it reaches up that high on the shank. The soil, if damp enough, will build up and actually form a v-shape on the front. Even in dry sandy soil I would think it would take a lot of acres to see any wear on the leading surface of the shank.
The greatest force will be down on the very bottom of the tip where even an inch or two of depth change will make a big difference in draft. I'm sure most of you folks are probably aware of some of this stuff.

 

[Jim Timber]

I'm mainly thinking about severing roots cleanly instead of ripping them out. I have a lot of mature trees in some of the areas I want to rip up, but would like to not pull the roots out in the process.

Having no experience with any subsoiling shanks, I just don't know either way.

I do know the mechanics about how they work by shoving the whole column of dirt upward as the tooth is pulled along.

I'm building this for breaking some hard pan where an old log landing was (which just doesn't drain - it's fine for grass and weed growth), and where a 100+ year old buggy trail ran; that ground is so hard weeds won't grow in it - it hasn't had traffic in 5 years and it's still bare (rock hard) dirt. I tried planting a plug seedling spruce tree and couldn't get my 1" steel spike in the ground with me (220#) jumping on it. I figure if I can get a couple passes on there I won't have to shred the area with the root grapple to break it up.

The other part is I want to use it to pull hose and wires eventually. The main thing is getting better drainage from some spots that hold water which shouldn't.

 

[redman135]

Hello Jim Timber, I think you will be in for a rude shock in just how strong tree roots are. Tractors up around the 180 hp mark have been dragged to a standstill when trying to rip along orchard shelter belts to cut encroaching (on fruit trees) roots. A contractor I saw was using a large (6-7') saw blade (for cutting ground ) and cutting neatly through the tree roots and only needing to cut a slot about 11/2' thick. The tractor was approx 40-50hp.

 

[Jim Timber]

Hello Jim Timber, I think you will be in for a rude shock in just how strong tree roots are.

I'm considering a sharp edge on the subsoiler shank because I already know how strong roots are. But if that doesn't work, I can always resort to plan B:

Yes, that's my video, and my grinder.

Or I can build a trencher. :laughing:

 

[oldnslo]

Only to know is try. On small roots it might help.

 

[Ford850]

I would be interested to find out as well.

I modified my tractor supply special and welded a piece of 1"x1/4" flat stock to the shank, then built it up with welds and ground it to a knife edge. I haven't had a chance to test it yet tho, hope to try it this weekend to cut some roots and rip some small stumps out.

This is what I plan to do, but not for stumps. When I use my sub soiler through any vegetation, the sod or weeds and roots fold over the leading edge and creates a clumped mess. I think a bladed edge will cut cleaner and leave less mess. I also think it will slice smaller roots easier too.

 

[Jim Timber]

I have some hard facing rod somewhere, but from what I'm seeing the er70 mig wire I use would make a hard edge as well. I could build up the leading edge of my AR plate and not lose any strength. Cutting it back wouldn't have much of an appreciable impact anyway. We're not talking about removing all that much material.

 

[Texasmark]

I use a Hay King brand and it can run 10-12" deep. It has an adjustable coulter in front of the blade for ripping at the surface and the blade is long and sharpened. The shank isn't.

Mine has 2 bolts per shank, a main retention (pivotal) bolt and a much smaller sacrificial bolt whose purpose is to be the sacrificial lamb on things such as you mention.

If I had a root problem then yes, I'd sharpen the cutter blades more and sharpen the shank........why not? Can't hurt anything and who knows might help you through a potential breakdown situation where you'd at least have to stop and reset the shank and rebolt it.

 

[bcp]

To cut through trash, the sharpened, swept-back shanks are often recommended, if not using a coulter to cut through.



Bruce

 

[sweettractors]

I got a 1x6" chunk of AR400 today for my sub soiler shank and now the question is whether or not to bevel the leading edge above the tooth or leave it flat?

Does it make any difference?

We sell the Fred Cain and Dirt Dog subsoilers and both come with the leading edge beveled. They will pull a little easier this way. Ken Sweet

 

[Jim Timber]

We sell the Fred Cain and Dirt Dog subsoilers and both come with the leading edge beveled. They will pull a little easier this way. Ken Sweet

Thanks Ken!

 

[Gem99ultra]

I got a 1x6" chunk of AR400 today for my sub soiler shank and now the question is whether or not to bevel the leading edge above the tooth or leave it flat?

Does it make any difference?

I can't give you a comparison, but I do have an old homemade SS with the shank made of 1" hard steel, beveled. With my little L3400 it will cut through smaller roots (1"-3"), but when I hit the big guys - that's a show stopper.

My WAG is that you won't hurt anything by beveling the leading edge, but you're not going to make a grown-up tractor out of a garden tractor either.

 

[Gordon Gould]

If it is as hard and w/o drainage as you say I would think that there may not be many roots in there anyway. Just a thought.

gg

 

[Rustyiron]

Jim if we were neighbors, I think we'd have a good time in the shop :thumbsup:

 

[Jim Timber]

If it is as hard and w/o drainage as you say I would think that there may not be many roots in there anyway. Just a thought.

gg

I've got 84.5 acres and it's got numerous soil types and conditions on it. Some areas are growing weeds well, but no trees have come in (former log landing), some are stone hard and nothing grows (buggy trail that's at least 100yrs old), and some is just plain clay infused sandy loam that holds water at the surface, but you can dig it with ease. The one thing nearly every square (100sf) of my land has in common is roots. I have trees everywhere. So when I plan on dropping a tooth down over 12", I just expect to hit roots of some size. Being that my land is also in a drumlin field, I also expect rocks of all sizes.

Rusty, having a competent neighbor would be a joy. We could have all kinds of fun as partners in crime.

G99u, while not as capable as a D3 Cat dozer (I'm 10,000lbs too light), my little 60pto HP utility tractor can still hold her own in the tugging department. I pulled the rear end of a 20' rollback tow truck while my 5,000# cargo container was on the back of it, in the mud no less, with my crappy R4 tires to boot... The little Deere has some stones when it comes to dragging a load. If, no, when I encounter a big rock that stops me dead, I hope I have the rear lift capacity to pull it out with the 3pt. If not, I'll just have to dig it out with the bucket or maybe get my neighbor's backhoe for a couple hours. We have boulders, I'm not going to deny that. Where they are 12" down is anyone's guess. There's good size landscape rocks all over a few of my trails. I need to pop those out and move them this spring when the ground thaws. Been a mine field for the ATV for 5 years. Time to smooth things out a bit.


I do appreciate all the comments and insights on this. I'm working on buttoning up a customers project and then have some more production work to do, but the subsoiler is going to happen before too long. Of course I'll post pics when I'm working on it.

 

[sweettractors]

Thanks Ken!

A shearpin in the Subsoiler would be worth considering. Ken Sweet

 

[Jim Timber]

5/8" grade 2 bolt and pivot assembly - already got it covered.