Is 50 HP really 50 HP?

[npalen]

Probably has been discussed here previously but wondering about the honesty of horsepower on new tractors. New models of agricultural tractors are normally run through the Nebraska Test to verify the advertised horsepower and pulling power. Is there anything like this for compact tractors?
Perhaps the new tractors have Volkswagen software that ups the fuel for the Nebraska Test?

 

[davesl708]

Normally competition keeps hp pretty honest. Competitors buy and test each other's products to find out how to compete.
The comp would love to find the other has over stated their hp.

 

[CobyRupert]

I thought that in many cases the horsepower that is advertised is the best case that's measured on an engine without stock intake, exhaust, pollution controls, etc... (Is the engine even in the tractor?) The more accurate measurement is probably the horsepower measured at the PTO.

 

[davesl708]

Horse Power is measured on a dynomonitor test stand. There is an industry standard for the test.

 

[4570Man]

Make sure you are comparing gross hp to gross hp and net hp to net hp, not gross hp to net hp. Also the rated rpm is important. A 50 hp gas motor rated at 6500 rpm and a diesel rated at 1800 rpm are not equal,

 

[Utopia Texas]

Make sure you are comparing gross hp to gross hp and net hp to net hp, not gross hp to net hp. Also the rated rpm is important. A 50 hp gas motor rated at 6500 rpm and a diesel rated at 1800 rpm are not equal,

Too bad none of my gasoline tractors run at 6500 RPM....

 

[kenmac]

HP may not be true HP.. This is most likely why you won't find small engines rated in HP anymore.. They are rated in CC's

 

[buickanddeere]

Probably has been discussed here previously but wondering about the honesty of horsepower on new tractors. New models of agricultural tractors are normally run through the Nebraska Test to verify the advertised horsepower and pulling power. Is there anything like this for compact tractors?
Perhaps the new tractors have Volkswagen software that ups the fuel for the Nebraska Test?

HP is HP . Where persons are confussed is during overload conditions which will lug the "prime mover". prime movers have anywhere from zero to 300% torque rise . Comparison between a steam turbine and a reciprocating steam engine comes to mind here as an example .

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I NEVER look at engine HP, it's PTO HP that I care about. That's the number that gives you a better idea of what the tractor will do...

That is, "IF" you want to use the tractor for a tractor and not a glorified lawn mower... lol

SR

 

[davesl708]

I NEVER look at engine HP, it's PTO HP that I care about. That's the number that gives you a better idea of what the tractor will do...

That is, "IF" you want to use the tractor for a tractor and not a glorified lawn mower... lol

SR

Yes. You can have 100 hp at the engine but if only 10 are getting to the wheels that is not useful information.
Output at the wheels or implement are what gets the work done.

 

[4570Man]

I That is, "IF" you want to use the tractor for a tractor and not a glorified lawn mower... lol SR

I hardly ever use the PTO on my tractor. I bought a B7100 to do my mowing, so now the PTO on the L3240 never gets used. I work my tractor hard, much harder than the average TBN member. My primary use is the loader and a distant second is the backhoe. My tractor has 715 hours and I have used the PTO for less than 20 of them. How does this make it a glorified lawn mowers?

 

[90cummins]

When I bought my 1720 the literature gave the gross hp as 27+- and the pto hp as 23.5.
Kinda hard for them to get away with falsely rating the pto higher than actual because it can easily be checked, also many people use the pto hp to choose a tractor.
90cummins

 

[CobyRupert]

I hardly ever use the PTO on my tractor. I bought a B7100 to do my mowing, so now the PTO on the L3240 never gets used.

Respectfully, I think you might be missing his point. The poster means the pto horsepower rating better represents the horsepower that is available to the Pto, or the pulling wheels, hydro pump, etc..; this is a better measure of the tractor's available power than measuring the engine under ideal conditions on a bench test.

 

[CobyRupert]

Example: My 5075E is sold as a 75hp tractor (engine, under who knows what ideal test conditions) , but put that engine in the tractor and it can only deliver about 64 hp to the pto (and I assume the tires too) according to Nebraska tests.

 

[npalen]

Drawbar horsepower is another piece of the pie particularly in ag tractors and takes into account transmission losses. I believe the Nebraska Test also takes tractive efficiency into account.

 

[Redneck in training]

Example: My 5075E is sold as a 75hp tractor (engine, under who knows what ideal test conditions) , but put that engine in the tractor and it can only deliver about 64 hp to the pto (and I assume the tires too) according to Nebraska tests.

The engine would deliver full power to PTO but not at 540 rpm. The PTO speed is set to about best torque and lowest fuel consumption engine rpm while maximum power is delivered at much higher rpm.

 

[Grandad4]

Probably has been discussed here previously but wondering about the honesty of horsepower on new tractors. New models of agricultural tractors are normally run through the Nebraska Test to verify the advertised horsepower and pulling power. Is there anything like this for compact tractors?
Perhaps the new tractors have Volkswagen software that ups the fuel for the Nebraska Test?

Compact tractors are pretty light as tractors go. It doesn't take a huge power reserve to get the wheels spinning, and if pulling power is a priority, a farm utility tractor will be much the better choice vs. a compact. So horsepower is usually ample for getting around with most compact tractors, but what is important is getting adequate power at the pto for the implements that will be run, and having adequate power for the size of the tractor.

Regarding claimed vs. true horsepower, there are a few tractor brands made by companies that are also in the business of making and selling engines for industrial applications. To stay in that business, the products sold (i.e. engines), pretty much have to perform according to their rated specs. Since the engines going into their compact tractors are typically versions of their industrial powerplants, it's not hard to find performance information concerning the bare engine and compare it to what is claimed in the tractor sales literature. Any tractor marketing hanky-panky would be embarrassingly obvious.

Other tractor manufacturers may not build their own engines, but source them from a reputable engine manufacturer, whose engines have performance characterisitic that are similarly well-documented.

 

[LD1]

HP is HP. Don't matter if it is gas, diesel, steam, electric, etc. Work done in a given time will be the same, if HP is the same.

As to the question, in today's soceity and with small engine makers just getting sued, and the fact that anyone can dyno their tractor, I don't think the MFGs are gonna lie about the numbers.

 

[CobyRupert]

The engine would deliver full power to PTO but not at 540 rpm. The PTO speed is set to about best torque and lowest fuel consumption engine rpm while maximum power is delivered at much higher rpm.

No,, not according to Tractordata.com that references Nebraska Tests. 64hp is full power, 62.8 hp at rated PTO speed. All this for a "75"hp tractor,

 

[TomSeller]

There needs to be more independent tractor tests as the Nebraska Power Tests.