engine seized or hydraulic lock?

[ovrszd]

Because many engines don't have valve stem seals or they use "umbrella cups" which only protects against oil splashed off the rocker arm. The valve guide may only extend 1/2" above the head so flooding the area with oil causes the valve guides to be submerged in oil. Under normal running conditions, oil just dribbles off the rocker arms in small amounts and runs down the push rod holes or oil drains.

And then, there's the case(s) mentioned above where oil may go directly to the intake ports because of some strange design.

My old JD420C has a baffle in the filler tube. If you try to add oil too fast, it back flows all over the top of the engine.

I'm sorry, but I ain't buyin this. Pull the valve cover on whatever engine you believe to have this problem and take a picture. Post it here and we'll discuss it.

 

[CCWKen]

I already know. If you want to disprove it, pull a valve cover yourself. I just did a valve job on the 420 and I'm not breaking new gaskets.

In the case of the intake flooded with oil, I think it had something to do with a sealed crankcase emission system. A hose or port ran from the rocker cover directly to the intake manifold.

 

[s219]

I'm sorry, but I ain't buyin this. Pull the valve cover on whatever engine you believe to have this problem and take a picture. Post it here and we'll discuss it.

You can do a search here and a few threads will pop up that go into more detail.

 

[davesl708]

Have you checked your engine oil level. If a bad head gasket or oil getting trapped in the valve cover the level will be higher if coolant is getting in the cylinder and lower if the oil is trapped in the valve cover. If trapped in the valve cover the drain ports are plugged.

As to hand cranking it can be done but you will have to hold pressure on the compression stroke till the pressure can bleed off past the rings. If coolant in the cylinder it will take longer and you will find coolant in the oil.

Loosening the injectors is the quick way to find out if hydro locked. Loosen all of them and the compression will be reduced and you can crank it over.

 

[747driver]

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...-kioti-oil-change-went-wrong.html#post4278017

Here is my post from last month. Yes, my OM and WSM all say to fill oil from the valve cover fill port. I discovered a second oil fill port down lower on the block that lets the oil go to the oil pan instead. I filled to fast when i used the valve cover port resulting in oil from filling to fast to enter the breather tube and then into the intake manifold. I did have a partial hydro lok when i first started the engine after the oil change. On 2nd attempt the engine started right up. This is my 1st tractor and only have 250 hrs. on it, so this is all a learning experience for me. Engine still smokes but is slowly getting better. I may have to take it to the dealer to see if maybe a pushrod got bent or valve seal was damaged. Kioti is aware of the problem from filling to fast at the valve cover port, but they should have noted that in their manuals. Thats my story !!

 

[Leejohn]

Quote " Hi,
I changed oil on my l2650 gst and ran for 10 minutes to check for leaks then shut it off."

If that engine is hydraulic locked it's not oil. Could be fuel locked if a injector was stuck open. Just pull glow plugs then turn over, they come out real easy. If he thinks engine is hydraulic locked he shouldn't be trying to turn it over with the starter.

 

[dodge man]

I agree, not likely hydro locked. I agree with someone else who said they are hard to turn over by hand. Most likely a starter, battery, electrical thing. I'm not sure why the OP thought it would be hydro locked?

 

[ovrszd]

I think we are all having a good informative discussion about a situation that we will never get resolution about. The OP posted once and has not been back. We are all offering advice to a blank screen.

 

[Grandad4]

Kub made that engine for about 20 years and there must be many, many thousands out there. Don't know what actual dealer experience was, but don't think there's a single reported instance here or generally on the interweb of oil-fill induced hydro lock in a D1402.

More likely cause of hydro lock would be a misadjusted 3 pt lift causing backfeed of hyd fluid through the hyd pump, overtopping the crankcase. But I'm still for eliminating weak battery, etc. as the cause first. Hope OP has made progress and can give an update.

 

[oldpilgrim]

I think we are all having a good informative discussion about a situation that we will never get resolution about. The OP posted once and has not been back. We are all offering advice to a blank screen.

could be, but I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I'd pull the starter out. It's possible that the starter gear is engaged with the ring gear and is jammed there.

I've had this happen.

He would still hear the solonoid clunk of the solonoid engaging as he says:

Starter was engaging with a solid click and buzz it was trying.

 

[Peter Will]

Hi thanks for the advice.waiting for a shop manual.Had a lot to do just to get at 48 mm nut in crankshaft.I have my 9 foot plow hanging on a gantry ,and needed it to lift the fel to get at the crankshart nut. Put a bigger battery in frist and a new cable.tryed a three foot breaker on the crank,will not budge.I have a tarp over the gantry so I can work under it when it snows.Next I will remove glowplugs and inspect with a borescope I bought when they were really expensive, now they are half the price.

 

[Peter Will]

Hi, the filler is under the alternater I have to use a long funnel to get around the alternater,bad place to try to get oil in.
Now that I am set up with a shelter it glow plug removal time and a look with a borescope I bought several years ago and used it about 5 times.a guy at work has used it more than me.Thanks again for some brain storming.

 

[Peter Will]

I am reading all your posts and had to get at the crank, needed to get my gantry over it that I hang my 9 foot plow on the make it easier to mount.I spent the day trying move the gantry with out my tractor to move it.it weighs all of 600 pounds.sunk into the ground stuck casters,gravel. Pulling it with my truck and small 12 hp gravely.two herniated disks,and two knees that need replacemen.Thank you for your advice, now that I have the fel out of the way end and front support off I was able to put a 48 mm socket and 3 foot breaker on it no movement. Put a new starter on good 14 volt battery new cable.still nothing I am waiting for a shop manual to see if it can be lock through the transmission which is hydraulic and also runs the fel with the same fluid utd super..And thanks for the advice And I am here.

 

[Grandad4]

...two herniated disks,and two knees that need replacemen...

Not the same age-related conditions as me, but no doubt the same effects. What used to be easy is now a real chore. Good luck with sorting out that tractor, but take care of yourself doing it. There are causes worth dying for, but a stubborn old tractor isn't one of them!

 

[Leejohn]

Are you saying that it wouldn't turn over with the glow plugs out. Push the clutch in then try again with the clutch pushed in.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Subscribing to learn.

 

[crazyal]

I had the alternator on a Hyundai that froze. It acted like the engine was seized. Even trying to turn the engine over by the nut on the crankshaft it wouldn't turn. While it's not likely to be your problem I would make sure that anything external to the engine isn't your problem. Others have said to push the clutch in to isolate it from the engine but I would go a step further. Things like the hydraulic pump need to be eliminated.

 

[ovrszd]

I had the alternator on a Hyundai that froze. It acted like the engine was seized. Even trying to turn the engine over by the nut on the crankshaft it wouldn't turn. While it's not likely to be your problem I would make sure that anything external to the engine isn't your problem. Others have said to push the clutch in to isolate it from the engine but I would go a step further. Things like the hydraulic pump need to be eliminated.

Yep. I think someone also mentioned the starter. I've saw those engage and lock themselves to the flywheel preventing the engine from turning.

 

[r8nger]

If it was hyd locked, the engine would turn 180 deg backwards. I'm betting the starter is stuck engaged , not allowing any movement.

 

[ovrszd]

If it was hyd locked, the engine would turn 180 deg backwards. I'm betting the starter is stuck engaged , not allowing any movement.

I'd for sure eliminate all those things before I started disassembling the tractor/engine.