97 425 garden tractor no start

[Gittyup]

Well no leaks so far have the front end back on it NOW looks like the bendix in the starter is sticking or going bad just my luck. It sometimes wants to stay engaged after the engine starts. Can I fix this without pulling the engine again? It is on the side hopefully I can but I will let you guys chime in and give me some good ideas.

Probably key switch or relay. Not likely the starter itself. Congrats on the successful cam replace. Not sure where the controls are, but I think they are on the PCB in the dash.

 

[weeder]

Well I am new at this but when I went to start it not every time I could hear it very clearly down at the starter but I have to rely on your info since you guys have been doing this a lot longer than me. I tapped on the side of the solenoid or bendix and it hasn't done it this afternoon. we will see what it does in the am. The engine runs really smooth and probably needed the valves adjusted anyway Seems I have to choke it every time to start even after it is warmed up. That is no big deal but actually I was never around this when they were using it. I might try spraying some elec cleaner on the switch tomorrow if it does it again.

 

[Gittyup]

Well I am new at this but when I went to start it not every time I could hear it very clearly down at the starter but I have to rely on your info since you guys have been doing this a lot longer than me. I tapped on the side of the solenoid or bendix and it hasn't done it this afternoon. we will see what it does in the am. The engine runs really smooth and probably needed the valves adjusted anyway Seems I have to choke it every time to start even after it is warmed up. That is no big deal but actually I was never around this when they were using it. I might try spraying some elec cleaner on the switch tomorrow if it does it again.

On the choking thing, check your fuel lines to the carb. There may be a crack or porous. I know mine failed about this age. Simple to replace.

 

[weeder]

On the choking thing, check your fuel lines to the carb. There may be a crack or porous. I know mine failed about this age. Simple to replace.

Ok, just looked at them this am I couldn't find any bad cracks in fact they looked fairly new.

 

[bruceatlam]

Run some Sea Foam in the gas for a few hours --- that will help clean it up. The cleaner it gets, the easier it will start.

 

[Gittyup]

Ok, just looked at them this am I couldn't find any bad cracks in fact they looked fairly new.

New fuel filter? Could be a lot of things. I know I never had to choke mine once warm. In the nearly 20 years of use, always started on first turn whether 10 degrees or 100, hot or cold engine. Cold: choke, warm: no choke. Always at full throttle when cold and idle speed when warm. Mine didn't like to start at full throttle when warm. Squirt some carb cleaner in it and try some seafoam or startron. It can't hurt. Also, did you get the choke cable back on correctly?

 

[weeder]

Well Houston I have a problem, It started good all day then I went to move it to the other side of the garage now I have 2 things or maybe one that makes 2 problems. When I turn on the key the starter try's to start the engine and the key is not turned all the way. But then it quit firing and I noticed no gas coming to the carb. Also the fuel filter doesn't have much fuel in it. So could it be a switch, relay and fuel pump? Or are 3 hooked up on the starting sequence? I haven't checked the elec schematic yet was going to undo the fuel line in the am and see what happens. The choke looks like it is hook up as it was because I marked it with a paint pencil. Same as the throttle cable. I will put some seafoam in it tomorrow and look over the elec schematic but I am not that good on reading those. Well figured something would happen maybe you guys can help me figure this one out???????? Thanks weeder Oh the fuel filter looks new and clean.

 

[weeder]

Probably key switch or relay. Not likely the starter itself. Congrats on the successful cam replace. Not sure where the controls are, but I think they are on the PCB in the dash.

Well checked the battery voltage good at 13.o volts seat switch is working, the engine turns over as soon as I put the key on run not start run position. The headlights do not come on when this happens they were working previously. Also checked the fuel lines and when engine is turning over no fuel comes out of the line before the filter and the filter is new. So I have been looking at the elec schematics and like I said I am not very versed in that kind of stuff. I am really hoping somebody can help me on this. Ok back to the garage and see what else I can mess up Lol

 

[tk tom]

Don't worry about filter not being full. I would be concerned that fuel is not coming from the tank, there is likely a screen at the outlet of the tank that could be plugged. Loosen the cap and apply low pressure to fuel line to clear it to the tank. Be careful of fuel flow back through after that. Then check for flow out of the pump as the motor cranks.

Sounds like a bad switch or solenoid as far as starter issue not disengaging properly, likely switch with the other issues mentioned.

Not sure on having to choke, sounds lean like a possible air leak from a bad gasket, partially blocked carburetor passage, or maybe poor quality fuel. Difficult hot starts can also be low compression symptoms. --if it's not related to the original fuel flow problem. Also check fuel cap, they are vented. If that is plugged then it won't flow.

 

[weeder]

Don't worry about filter not being full. I would be concerned that fuel is not coming from the tank, there is likely a screen at the outlet of the tank that could be plugged. Loosen the cap and apply low pressure to fuel line to clear it to the tank. Be careful of fuel flow back through after that. Then check for flow out of the pump as the motor cranks.

Sounds like a bad switch or solenoid as far as starter issue not disengaging properly, likely switch with the other issues mentioned.

Not sure on having to choke, sounds lean like a possible air leak from a bad gasket, partially blocked carburetor passage, or maybe poor quality fuel. Difficult hot starts can also be low compression symptoms. --if it's not related to the original fuel flow problem. Also check fuel cap, they are vented. If that is plugged then it won't flow.

Ok will do the fuel check, I was reading the tech manual and found something pertaining to the switch and constant cranking. Prob right I will order a new switch and maybe a new carb gasket since I didn't replace the old one. Thanks tk hope I can figure it out.

 

[weeder]

Don't worry about filter not being full. I would be concerned that fuel is not coming from the tank, there is likely a screen at the outlet of the tank that could be plugged. Loosen the cap and apply low pressure to fuel line to clear it to the tank. Be careful of fuel flow back through after that. Then check for flow out of the pump as the motor cranks.

Sounds like a bad switch or solenoid as far as starter issue not disengaging properly, likely switch with the other issues mentioned.

Not sure on having to choke, sounds lean like a possible air leak from a bad gasket, partially blocked carburetor passage, or maybe poor quality fuel. Difficult hot starts can also be low compression symptoms. --if it's not related to the original fuel flow problem. Also check fuel cap, they are vented. If that is plugged then it won't flow.

Well ran some air up thru the fuel line and a little gas came out. Had another person watching with a flash light and saw bubbles in the tank but still no gas coming out when I turn the key. The tractor still wants to crank On the first key turn or run and does nothing if turned to the start side of the key. Plus no fuel and the headlights do not come on in that position. I am wondering since everything worked fine before if all of this is hooked up to the switch? Which I mean when in a normal operation as soon as the engine starts the key goes back to the run position which might make everything work? Just a thought you guys know more about these than I do. Well I will get a switch and carb gasket ordered tomorrow and see what that does. But I want everyone's ideas and input because I have no idea what is going on here.

 

[weeder]

Well ran some air up thru the fuel line and a little gas came out. Had another person watching with a flash light and saw bubbles in the tank but still no gas coming out when I turn the key. The tractor still wants to crank On the first key turn or run and does nothing if turned to the start side of the key. Plus no fuel and the headlights do not come on in that position. I am wondering since everything worked fine before if all of this is hooked up to the switch? Which I mean when in a normal operation as soon as the engine starts the key goes back to the run position which might make everything work? Just a thought you guys know more about these than I do. Well I will get a switch and carb gasket ordered tomorrow and see what that does. But I want everyone's ideas and input because I have no idea what is going on here.

Ok guys update went to John Deere they want $140 for the switch and board ( they come together ) so the guy said that they were not returnable which I kind of new. So I said I will go home and pull it and clean it up and look for some brown or burnt places on the board so I did but so far I haven't seen anything. I don't know the correct way to check it with a meter except for the wires and they all checked out good. I guess it could be in the switch part but I don't know how to check it for continuity as far what to where. I will check this thing out for a couple of days and if I don't hear anything from you guys I guess I will have to bite the bullet. Ok if you think of something please chime in I am all ears. Thanks weeder

 

[Richard001]

Weeder,

Could you make a PDF of the schematic and/or wiring diagram and post it here? Can't help you trouble shoot without info.

 

[weeder]

Weeder,

Could you make a PDF of the schematic and/or wiring diagram and post it here? Can't help you trouble shoot without info.

Well if I new how to do that I would and there are so many schematics I really don't know which one is the right one or maybe 2 of them? I will tell you what has happened today. I pulled the switch and board out of the tractor both were very dirty. I used some elec cleaner and a soft brush to clean up the boards and the connectors. I looked for burned spots on the boards and I couldn't find any. checked all wires for continuity and that came out fine double checked the 2 fuses and they were fine. So for kickers I put it back in kind of temporarily with the key switch left out of the chassis. The switch worked perfect and the fuel pump filled the filter and the engine fired. I did this 2 more times and then it went back to the same old thing of cranking on the first turn of the switch. Well yes, I am frustrated so I went and ordered a new complete as they call it ignition module. They said it would be in tomorrow afternoon so we will see I know I cannot return it so I guess I am doing process of elimination. Yes Richard I wish I could make a copy of all of that but I really don't know how to do it. I am not that good on a computer anyway. Let's see what this does and if it doesn't work well I am back to where I started. Thanks weeder

 

[Gittyup]

did you clean the switch by spraying brake cleaner in it? Do so. Let it dry. Apply something like fluid film or dielectric grease and see if that helps. The switch on my Kioti tractor was misbehaving, and this fixed it.

 

[Coyote machine]

http://www.mytractorforum.com/images/reference/JOHNDEERE425445455.pdf

Here's the entire 425 and 445/455. service manual.
Make sure you're in the right section/engine, Kawa or Briggs, etc. It's got everything on earth about these mowers.

 

[weeder]

did you clean the switch by spraying brake cleaner in it? Do so. Let it dry. Apply something like fluid film or dielectric grease and see if that helps. The switch on my Kioti tractor was misbehaving, and this fixed it.

No I used a regular can of electrical contact cleaner and like I said it worked about 3 times then went back to the other way of trying to crank the engine over when the key is in the run position and not start.

 

[Richard001]

Thanks to Coyote for posting that. Now Weeder, what engine do you have?

Richard

 

[weeder]

Thanks to Coyote for posting that. Now Weeder, what engine do you have?

Richard

Well it is a Kawasaki 20hp FD620D gas engine 2 cyl liquid cooled

 

[weeder]

Well guys a very disappointing day so far. The ignition module came in which includes the key switch and board I hooked it all up as the other was and the tractor started 6-7 times but as I started the tractor each time I could hear the solenoid trying to stay engaged and then it would release. Finally it went back to the old way of trying to start when the key is in the run position. I guess I will try to figure this thing out one way or another. Is there a way to bench test the starter with a 12 volt battery? If the solenoid is the problem then it should do it then correct? I will double check all the wiring and see if something has gotten mashed or messed up when I had it on the workbench fixing the cam. I priced a new starter not cheap at all.