lets discuss preps for disasters

[MossRoad]

i think i'll grab the AAA large format usa map outta mine or the wifes truck for that. or at least a us fold map.

ont he book maps.. might just tear out the couple pages showing your state or a neighboring state maybee, unless you were planning on a road trip.

Its really, really hard to get lost in this part of Indiana. Pretty much all the roads are straight N/S or E/W and always some sort of logical naming or numbering system . I don't think I could get lost in a 9 county square area as I know every main road in the counties and towns. However, once I get past the familiarity area, it would be handy to have some paper maps. Road atlases are great for highways and main roads. Some have decent city maps of the larger cities. But finding detailed secondary road maps on the fly without a computer/smart phone is pretty darn hard nowadays. Loot a library for its maps? :confused3:

 

[MossRoad]

True. We always travel with an atlas that covers the area we travel to/from home. In general traffic backups, it is quicker to get out the paper map and look at alternatives than try to use the small phone display. We always travel with a fair amount of food and water. I have been stuck on the side of the road for four hours once with little water and I won't go through that again...

If the SHTF situation is away from home, one really should be traveling in the woods. Everyone else will be on the roads and that will be were the rapes, robberies and murders occur. Easy pickings.

A map for our area would be good to have but I already know the area.

I figure our neighborhood would have to join up as a group to get things done. A great deal will depend on the county sheriff. He is an elected official and has some pretty broad powers. The sheriff will really influence the mayhem that would be occurring the rural NC counties. The city counties will just be chaos and really out of control.

Later,
Dan

I doubt there are enough police in our city or county to quell any mass violence. I predict massive shootings, lootings and fires in that situation.

 

[MossRoad]

:laughing: Do you even city? Cities have their problems, but they also have a lot of resources, like hospitals. Every person wounded in the Boston Marathon bombing was in a hospital within 25 minutes.

But you go scrounge in a junkyard, and I'll take Conley Container Terminal. Roughly 1,200 containers at any given time. Surely in 600 tractor trailer loads of goods I can find something useful.


This is a small portion of some of the warehouse district, which happens to be nearby where we live. I've stocked up on booze as trade bait.


All that said, I still worry most about water and medical supplies, first.

With Boston being the 4th most populated area in the U.S., I'm guessing the 12,900 people per square mile will be helping you go through those containers in a timely fashion.

 

[MossRoad]

On maps and roads,

I tended to avoid major roads during bad times, and if GPS isn't working, well your going to need a compass, or some other point of reference like the North Star or the Sun.

I recall leaving Washington in a hurry one time, I travelled down one-way streets the wrong way just to GTFO.

Oh geez. First time my wife and I were in DC sightseeing (probably 30 years ago), we tried to leave and there was construction. On our third trip across the Roosevelt bridge I finally ended up backing down a ramp to get to 66! :confused2:

 

[MossRoad]

I may have missed it but nobody seems to have mentioned the one thing you must have in a one month emergency. That is CASH. We pay for everything with credit cards. Never use cash. During the Ice Storm of 2009 there was no power to anything for a week or so. If you could find something to buy you had to have cash. I ended up borrowing five gallons of gas from a neighbor to drive sixty miles to fill all our gas cans. Also found a bank to get cash. Even though there was a station or two running on generators they didn't have ability to take cards. We now keep a stash in a lockbox in our house sufficient to provide basics for a couple months. RSKY

Heck, I walked into the grocery store last week and 2/3 of the lights were out and the sliding glass door was propped open. The manager said they were having a power problem and were still open. First thing I asked was "Are the credit card machines working?". He said no, we can only do cash. I had cash, but more than half the people coming in turned around and left when they heard that. No credit, debit, or EBT (food stamp) cards. All Indiana government assistance is on EBT (electronic benefits transfer) cards. If that system goes down, OUCH! I'll bet 1/3 of the population in this town is using EBT in some form or another.

 

[k0ua]

I doubt there are enough police in our city or county to quell any mass violence. I predict massive shootings, lootings and fires in that situation.

I guarantee you in my county there are not enough. When I was a deputy in Greene county we were supposed to have 110 sworn officers, but in some of the rural counties surrounding us, it was not unusual to have the Sheriff and one deputy on duty at any one time. Yes there were reserves, but they had other jobs, and only worked occasionally if at all. It is some better now than those old days, but still in our rural counties, I doubt there are many more than 4 or 5 guys. for maybe 500 or more square miles.

 

[MossRoad]

Plus the author of the letter had flown in for a week and probably wasn't familiar with the area. His account shows how quickly strangers can start pulling together.

I had little sympathy for his comments on the helicopters though... it may seem easy to land one but under those conditions there were too many variables.

Plus the armed guards which he suggested = less payload for food and water...

One thing a lot of people don't know about helicopters and crowds... people will run right up to them. You get just a few people hanging on one side and its easy to tip them. Also, crowds don't understand the dangers of the tail rotor. One person walking into that could bring the whole machine down. Then you have whirling blades of death slashing through a crowd. I can see why a pilot wouldn't want to attempt landing a helicopter loaded with emergency supplies anywhere near a crowd.

 

[KiotiKowboy]

Law enforcement is able to conduct its job primarily because people respect/fear the power behind the badge. A given officer could easily be overcome by any number of those with whom s/he may encounter in the line of duty. In a bad enough situation, the officers will lose the protection afforded by the restraints of civil order.

 

[MossRoad]

I guarantee you in my county there are not enough. When I was a deputy in Greene county we were supposed to have 110 sworn officers, but in some of the rural counties surrounding us, it was not unusual to have the Sheriff and one deputy on duty at any one time. Yes there were reserves, but they had other jobs, and only worked occasionally if at all. It is some better now than those old days, but still in our rural counties, I doubt there are many more than 4 or 5 guys. for maybe 500 or more square miles.

We've got several hundred in our town, probably a hundred in the county, another hundred in the next town over, so maybe 450-500. But we have 100,000 in town, and 250,000 in the surrounding area. I'd imagine looting of convenience stores would happen pretty quick. Then the grocery stores and fast-food places. There are about ZERO retail stores, Walmarts, etc... in any of the poorer neighborhoods here. They are all on the outskirts of town, as are most of the grocery stores. So, once the food runs out in town (about 3 days), the people would have to look for food going towards the edges of town. Once those ran out, it would probably be home-to-home. Yikes! Hard to think about something that large of a scale.

Here we have tornadoes, which are generally localized and the damage, although it can be severe, is in a straight path and is over in half an hour. I can't fathom a hurricane where stuff gets wiped across two-three states over the course of a couple days.

 

[MossRoad]

Anyhow, be a boy scout and be prepared for natural or un-natural events. :thumbsup:

 

[Jstpssng]

One thing a lot of people don't know about helicopters and crowds... people will run right up to them. You get just a few people hanging on one side and its easy to tip them. Also, crowds don't understand the dangers of the tail rotor. One person walking into that could bring the whole machine down. Then you have whirling blades of death slashing through a crowd. I can see why a pilot wouldn't want to attempt landing a helicopter loaded with emergency supplies anywhere near a crowd.

Then factor in that the people on the ground were hungry, tired, and scared, things could get ugly fast.

 

[MossRoad]

Then factor in that the people on the ground were hungry, tired, and scared, things could get ugly fast.

Yeah. You see this in a lot of natural disaster news footage from around the world where the helicopters hover and just drop food out and the panicked crowds fight for it. If they landed, the crowd would overwhelm the crew and machine and a lot worse would happen.

 

[4570Man]

Yeah. You see this in a lot of natural disaster news footage from around the world where the helicopters hover and just drop food out and the panicked crowds fight for it. If they landed, the crowd would overwhelm the crew and machine and a lot worse would happen.

I imagine that ships would not come into port for the same reason.

 

[farmer2009]

I guarantee you in my county there are not enough. When I was a deputy in Greene county we were supposed to have 110 sworn officers, but in some of the rural counties surrounding us, it was not unusual to have the Sheriff and one deputy on duty at any one time. Yes there were reserves, but they had other jobs, and only worked occasionally if at all. It is some better now than those old days, but still in our rural counties, I doubt there are many more than 4 or 5 guys. for maybe 500 or more square miles.

I live in a county of 24,000 people and 600sq miles in size. There are 2 city police departments with about 3-4 officers each. Then the sheriffs office with 10-12 deputies and 4 state troopers assigned to county. Not uncommon to have a single city cop, a deputy and maybe a trooper on duty after midnight. Hate to think I had to depend on those 20+/- guys to take care of us all.

 

[RDrancher]

Wow, a lot of good ideas and a bunch of jabber since I last checked. Just closed today on the property in the sticks and start the move...tomorrow! Keep the good ideas coming guys.

 

[MossRoad]

I imagine that ships would not come into port for the same reason.

They won't be going to the west coast ports as much in "normal" times anymore, either.....
Ports Gridlock Reshapes the Supply Chain - WSJ

 

[s219]

As we prepare for a possible hurricane hitting my area on Sunday, one thing I am finding is that so many people around me lack the basic intelligence to find and understand good weather information leading up to an event (I am talking about the week or 3-4 days before disaster hits, when we still have full/normal access to information). As a result, I think they go from an ignorant state to a panicked state, and that happens to late, too close to the event. So I would add awareness and intelligence to the list of important "prep".

I knew about the possibility of a storm 4+ days ago. Got some supplies yesterday and more today, as well as some extra fuel for cars/chainsaws and propane for my grill. Ran my diesel generator this evening to check everything out. Will gauge the overnight weather model runs in the morning and decide if I need another 55 gal of diesel on hand (have 100 gal right now). That leaves me about 3 more days to get my property and home in order in case the storm hits.

Compare that to friends/neighbors we talked to this afternoon -- they are just starting to be aware of the hurricane now. They have lost a lot of time, and now have to compete with all the other crazies for food at the store tomorrow. And they are hopelessly confused about weather models and hurricane tracks, and the statistics/probabilities/methods the NHC uses to put together their forecasted tracks. Right now their forecast is the result of much uncertainty and lack of agreement in the weather models, and doesn't represent a track as much as it represents an average guess. They explain all of this in their bulletin. But everyone is convinced the hurricane is headed right over us because if you just look at the track without understanding it, that's what you'd see. In reality the individual model tracks want to take it anywhere from far west to far east of here, and the average "track" is just going down the middle of the spaghetti. Weather doesn't obey averages like that, it's merely a graphical convenience to relay the information.

Funny thing, my wife's uncle, who lives about 14 miles from us, is also ahead of the game and already moving his tractor and other equipment to higher ground (he's in a flood-prone area). He's a captain on a local ferry boat, and would have been plugged into the situation well in advance because they get detailed weather reports before every shift, as a matter of procedure. I knew when we talked to him today that he would have his act together. I really respect that.

 

[TomSeller]

using your logic, every large city inthe US has a container port and food warehouse storage capable of supporting a sourounding multi state region.
sorry... wrong.
.

I think he basically lives in the city and Boston is his reference.

 

[RSKY]

A little off the subject but....

I remember reading several years ago about a hurricane approaching Galveston Texas. So the story went the local officials ordered a full evacuation. The Sherriff's office sent deputies around door to door to make sure everybody got the word and started on the road. If I remember correctly abut a quarter of the population, mostly older, said they would stay and take care of their property. Said they had warnings all the time but nothing ever happened. Deputies would go back to their car and make a radio call with the address. About an hour later another officer in a slightly different uniform would knock on the reluctant one's door. The conversation would go something like this. "Officer, I told that other deputy that there was nothing to worry about and I'm not leaving. You are wasting your time talking to me. go bother somebody else".

The new officer would reply that he wasn't from the sheriff's office but from the coroner's office and that he wasn't there to talk. "I'm just her to make a dental impression", he would say as he took out a kit with his tools. "It makes it much easier to identify the bodies after the hurricane".

They had nearly 100% evacuation.

That's all I remember about the story. Don't remember the dates or anything else or know if it really happened.

But it could and it was funny.

RSKY

 

[Gunny]

I don't think anyone has addressed prescriptions for medical issues (if they have any). It looks to me that they way they're set up right now, about the most anyone would have on hand would be a 30 or 90 day supply. If someone gets refills on a 30 day basis and are near the end of their supply when things go down, things could get bad. No cash to get a refill, if refills were available, ATMs/credit cards won't work.