I have aux lighting questions

[BarnieTrk]

Hi Fellas,

I am not an electrician, nor do not play one on TV.
But, I plan to install two rearward-facing lamps from my ROPS on my '89 1720 FORD.

Here are the lamps I'm interested in: Grote 64931 Rubber Tractor & Utility lamp
Their information says:

Product Description: # 64931- 12 Volt
Material: Rubber
Finish: Black
Bulb: 64931 - #4411, PAR 36, 35 Watt, 2,500 C.P.
Voltage Amp: 12 V - 2.7 AMP
Bulb: 64991 - #H7606, PAR 36, 50 Watt, 1,000 C.P.
Voltage Amp: 12 V - 3.9 AMP
Bulb: 64891-5 - #4511, PAR 36, 30 Watt, 2,000 C.P.
Bulb: 64921 - #4589, PAR 36, 50 Watt, 5,000 C.P.

Shock-absorbing weather-proof body, for versatile application as utility, fifth wheel, back-up, tractor, forklift, or off-road vehicle lamp.
Swivel mount, Trapezoid beam pattern.

Questions:

1) Does the info above mean that I can use any one of the four sealed beam bulbs listed in the #54931 fixture?

2) Here is my flexible wiring plan: I am thinking of running 14-gauge MTW wire. A red, feed (hot) wire would come from the (+) battery post, into a 15-AMP inline fuse within a foot or so of the battery, through a weather-proof toggle switch mounted at the base of the ROPS, then run the single feed up through the ROPS framework and split at the top to feed both fixtures. I would also run a black, 14-ga. ground wire from each fixture into one black wire then down the ROPS to a secure ground on the tractor frame/engine. Grommets & tape as appropriate.
Does this sound like a do-able plan without issues?

I realize the claimed benefits of using LED lights, but I simply don't like their light output.

Thanks for any & all advice, Guys!
BarnieTrk

 

[BoylermanCT]

My only concern is if the electrical system can handle the extra watts. Assuming you will also be using the existing headlights at the same time, so you could be doubling the watt output on the electrical system. 14 gauge wire should have no issue with a load of 100 watts total. Converting to LEDs would allow you to significantly increase light and lower total wattage. They sell 2700K, 3000K and 5000K LED's now. The 2700's are a warm white and similar to the lights you are proposing. Are you drilling into the ROPS for the switch, light mounts and wire holes? That can weaken the ROPS.

On my tractor, I disconnected by headlights from the harness (they were useless when the FEL is on), and used a 14 gauge outdoor extension cord to run power to the ROPS. The cord plugged directly into the existing harness, and I mounted 2 forward facing LED clusters and 1 backward facing. This setup allowed me to keep the wiring harness intact, use the original headlight switch in the dash and instead of running 2 55 watt bulbs, I am pulling 3 27 watt LEDs for a total of 81 watts and 10X the amount of light. I ran the wire outside the ROPS so I would not have to drill into it.

 

[BarnieTrk]

Thanks for your reply and input, BoylermanCT! :thumbsup:

I hadn't considered that the electrical system may not be able to handle the extra load. I had figured that I would face both auxillary lights towards the rear and likely would not have the head lights on at the same time....but I suppose that could happen.

Regarding going with some 2700K LEDs, I may convert to LED replacement "bulbs" in the future, but not likely. At my present rate, I use the tractor so infrequently and even less in the dark, I wonder why I am even considering this project. Reason being I guess, is it only seems right to have some rear facing lighting JUST IN CASE I need them some day.

Good to hear the 14 ga wire is fine.

Hmmmmm,,,,, I figured it would take a couple of 1/4" holes to mount each fixture mount and a 3/8" hole at the top and one at the bottom for the wiring to pass thru. I may move the toggle switch mounting to the fender, near the base of the ROPS, eliminating the need for those small holes. I didn't think those couple of small-sized mount holes and only two wire holes would weaken the ROPS enough to reduce its protection capabilities.....???

BarnieTrk

 

[BoylermanCT]

The holes in the ROPS may not weaken it significantly, but if your tractor was new, it would void the warranty. I figured why mess with it - one day it could save your life. It'd be a bummer if it failed because of the holes. Not worth the risk in my book!

Once you add the lights, you will find all sorts of use for it in the dark! During the summer I rarely use it at night, but in the winter, I am usually plowing when I get home in the evening, and the lights are well worth it.

 

[BarnieTrk]

This is an '89 machine, so the warranty is long gone. But you make a valid point on staying safe; and I do operate it on hilly ground and always wear my seat belt because I don't like it when one of my rear wheels comes off the ground - it gets HAIRY QUICK! I may need that ROPS to work as intended!

I looked in my owner's manual and the alternator is rated for 35 amps. But I don't know how many amps my headlights would draw....so I suppose I will need to insure I don't run all the lights together for extended periods or they may draw my battery down faster than the alternator can charge it.

What is your take on whether or not I should run a relay in my wiring circuit?

Is wiring in a relay a good practice for what I'm proposing?

Thanks again!

BarnieTrk

 

[BoylermanCT]

An alternator rated for 35 amps at 12 volts can handle 420 watts (amps x volts = watts) Not sure how much electric power is used by everything other than the lights. But if you have a fuse or circuit breaker in line, then if you draw too much, you'll trip the breaker. Usually you use a relay when powering high power lights so you don't have to use heavy gauge wire in the entire circuit. I don't think you have this issue, so I would not bother with the relay.

 

[BarnieTrk]

An alternator rated for 35 amps at 12 volts can handle 420 watts (amps x volts = watts) Not sure how much electric power is used by everything other than the lights. But if you have a fuse or circuit breaker in line, then if you draw too much, you'll trip the breaker. Usually you use a relay when powering high power lights so you don't have to use heavy gauge wire in the entire circuit. I don't think you have this issue, so I would not bother with the relay.

That is exactly what I needed to know......

Thanks for explaining it in layman's terminology for a guy like me who is "electrically-challenged"! LOL!

Wishing you a GREAT Day! :drink:

BarnieTrk :thumbsup:

 

[bumperm]

You mentioned you don't like the light output of LEDs, but didn't say why?

If it's the blue white color (temperature) that you don't care for, that's easy enough to fix, simply select a LED light fixture with the color temperature you prefer: Color Temperature (Kelvin)

By taking LED's out of consideration, you are eliminating a vastly superior and more efficient (lower power or current draw per lumen) light source. Using LED's just makes sense nowadays, brighter more even lighting and up to 50,000 hour life, makes LEDs a better option in most cases as compared to incandescent lights.

I have two of these facing forward and two aft - just like daylight (though too high and too bright for on road use when mounted to the tractor roof or ROPS:

36W LED Work Light Bar 6 5" CREE Flood Off Roard Ute Boat ATV 4X4WD 36 Watt 2pcs | eBay

In this photo, it's a stock 35 watt halogen on the left and a 36 watt LED on the right (tractor's left facing you).

http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/...actor/IMG_20131227_163351_823_zps5fd45928.jpg

 

[PILOON]

Most quality toggle switches can handle 10 amps DC (standard size, not minis).
Rather than using relays you can split, ex, front and rear and eliminate relays.
The simpler the installation the less trouble prone.
With LEDs any switch will do.

 

[BarnieTrk]

Thanks for your input, PILOON. I figured I'd look for a 10AMP toggle switch.

Can you recommend a quality, weatherproof, toggle switch that would work for this application?
I looked at Radio Shack's web site and didn't really see anything that looked 'weatherproof'.....

(Although my tractor does sleep under a roof, it will likely see some operating time in blowing snow, possibly some rain...)

Thanks,
BarnieTrk

 

[bumperm]

This link is for the weatherproof switch "boot" . . . don't forget you'll need to buy the switch as well (listed on the page)

Amazon.com : Blue Sea Systems WeatherDeck Toggle Switch Boot, Black : Boating Toggle Switches : Sports & Outdoors

 

[jenkinsph]

This link is for the weatherproof switch "boot" . . . don't forget you'll need to buy the switch as well (listed on the page)

Amazon.com : Blue Sea Systems WeatherDeck Toggle Switch Boot, Black : Boating Toggle Switches : Sports & Outdoors

Blue Sea is a good brand I have used their stuff on my Whaler boat.

 

[BarnieTrk]

Thanks fellas for the weatherproof boot link & info! :thumbsup:

BarnieTrk

 

[Threepoint]

You mentioned you don't like the light output of LEDs, but didn't say why?

If it's the blue white color (temperature) that you don't care for, that's easy enough to fix, simply select a LED light fixture with the color temperature you prefer: Color Temperature (Kelvin)

By taking LED's out of consideration, you are eliminating a vastly superior and more efficient (lower power or current draw per lumen) light source. Using LED's just makes sense nowadays, brighter more even lighting and up to 50,000 hour life, makes LEDs a better option in most cases as compared to incandescent lights.[snip]

Barnie, you've evidently thought this out pretty carefully, so I hesitated to comment on this point, but I agree with Bumperm. I recently swapped out the four stock 35w oval halogen work lights on my 2014 Kioti NX4510HST cab for 45w rectangular CREE-chip LED floods. The stock halogens are o.k. for night work, especially with younger eyes than mine, but I wanted whiter and brighter light for close-in work with the loader and implements. Huge difference. I would also say that, since you mentioned possibly changing to LED in the future by changing the bulbs, I don't think that will work. Even if you could find an LED bulb for retrofit, I can't imagine it producing as much usable light over as broad an area as a rectangular work light with a 15-LED diode array.

 

[BarnieTrk]

Threepoint / Bumperm;

I do appreciate you guys urging me to go LED, however, this morning I purchased two GROTE #64931 Rubber Tractor & utility lamps, with its PAR 36, sealed beam incandescent bulb #4411, 35 Watt, 2,500 C.P., 12 V - 2.7 AMP., from a local shop on closeout for $9 each.

Regarding the point of possibly switching to a LED in the future, I called Grote and according to their service tech guy, there are LED replacements (#63821-5) for these lamp fixtures: 63821-5 - Trilliant® 36 LED WhiteLight? Work Light .

Now 'BoylermanCT' indicated that I would likely prefer a "warmer" 2700K LED, however, I have not been able to determine what the "Color Temperature" of the #63821 LEDs are. Then after a quick web scan, it looks like the retrofit LEDs sell for just over $100 each! At that price, they had BETTER produce some super-duper light!

At this point, once my current incandescent sealed beams give out, I don't know if I would switch over to the LEDs or not.
I do know they would need to be less expensive than they are now.

For discussion purposes, as far as amount of light, the retrofit LEDs have 6 diodes per fixture, so the pair would provide me with 12 LED diodes producing 2200 lumens. I'm sure not as much light as your 15 diode LEDs, but I'm not in a 'light producing competition' with you..... I just want some usable light at the rear of my tractor, since I only have the glow of one red tail light there now.
Thanks, guys, for all your opinions & guidance! :drink:

BarnieTrk

 

[bumperm]

Threepoint / Bumperm;

I'm sure not as much light as your 15 diode LEDs, but I'm not in a 'light producing competition' with you..... I just want some usable light at the rear of my tractor, since I only have the glow of one red tail light there now.
Thanks, guys, for all your opinions & guidance! :drink:

BarnieTrk

Have you considered candles with wind guards . . . or the "more modern" kerosene lamps?? (grin).

36 watt LED fixtures are available on eBay for 20 to 30 bucks. They put our many times more light than the PAR 36 sealed beams (4509 or Q4509 bulbs for aircraft landing lights which is what *used* to be in wings of my Husky).

This first picture compares the Par36 landing light with Q4509 (quartz) with a 55 watt High Intensity Discharge light. The following picture compares the Q4509 to a 36 watt LED - - the LEDs on my tractor are even brighter and broader beam than those on my aircraft (which cost over $300 each 'cause they go on a plane).

http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv107/bumperm/Husky A1-B/006.jpg

http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv107/bumperm/Husky A1-B/004.jpg

As they say, you don't always get what you pay for.

 

[Threepoint]

BarnieTrk, sounds like the Par 36s will do what you want, and at $9 each, you're out practically nothing if you decide to go to LED in the future. You'll already have the wiring in place. If you do eventually make the switch, though, rather than replace the Par 36 in the same fixture with the Grote LED bulb for $100 each, it would be way cheaper to replace the whole fixture, as Bumperm notes.

 

[BarnieTrk]

Threepoint,

Your points are absolutely spot on correct.

Thanks again! :thumbsup: - BarnieTrk

 

[BoylermanCT]

Ditto on getting LED's on EBay. I bought my 3 27 watt LED bulbs on Ebay for less than $20 each. I love them. The 2 forward facing LED's light up a football field - especially in the winter. If you like the warm white of a halogen bulb, a 2700K LED will match that. 5000K LED's are very white / blueish. 3000K are a bright white. I have the 3000K bulbs and like them a lot.

 

[bumperm]

A few things I should expand upon in my post above. Firstly the Q4509 quart halogen sealed beam in my comparison test is a 100 watt light. It is also a clear lens with no flutes. If had in the "flood" version for use as a taxi light, it will have vertical ribs in the glass to give a broader, but less intense light.

Even though the PAR36 incandescent lamp in this case is 100 watts*, it is bested by a 55 watt HID, which puts out about the same amount of light as the 36 watt LED. For a number of reasons, the LED light output is much preferred in use, not the least of which is the area is illuminated more evenly.

*In a typical tractor application the incandescent bulb might be more like 35 watts, and pulling almost 3 amps of current. The 100 watt Q4509 is drawing three times as much current, and practically speaking one would expect a bulb life of about 25 hours as the light is being driven rather hard. The 35 watt "tractor" PAR 36 would be expected to last longer, but nowhere near the life of the LED.

When I used incandescent landing lights, they got shut down after leaving the airport environs - to expensive to replace to leave on all the time. With LEDs, they stay on in wig-wag mode for the whole flight to aid in collision avoidance and reduce the risk of bird strikes - - neither of which are significant risks while driving a tractor I guess.