Grillo 107d or BCS 739

[jrpeterson05]

I have a BCS 720 that works fine but I'm looking to get something a bit bigger. Right now all I have is a tiller and that is what I will be doing 95% of the time in the future. I just got a good deal on a BCS snow thrower yesterday. I imagine I will get to use that half a dozen times a year but I will be using the tiller probably about 50 to 100 hours a year. Other implements I might get in the future are rotary plow, and possibly a used lawn mower if I can find a good deal. (I only have a 1/3 acre lot).

I have had my eye on a 107d for about a year for a couple reasons. First is price, I can get more machine for less money. And second I understand they might make a slightly better tiller than BCS. I can get a 739 locally for about the same as a 107d from earthtools shipped to me with a few extras (quick couplings, foam filled tires). I might have the chance to get a lightly used 739 at a bit of a discount as well.

I have not had the chance to use a powersafe clutch before and that is one of my concerns with getting a 739. I would like to get some thought on people who have used it. One of my concerns with the 107d is the reverser. I have seen alot of people prefer the bsc style rather than the grillo style. But again I have not had the chance to use the Grillo and try it out. I know the 739 is missing the steering brakes that the 107 has, I think they might be nice but if I am not mowing much (if at all) I might never need them. I know that the snow thrower I just got will not work with the Grillo, and if I ever want to find a cheap used lawnmower it will probably be a BCS. I have never seen a Grillo here in Utah and everyone I ask have never heard of them.

I would just like to get your thoughts, should I stick with BCS and get slightly less machine or just make the switch to Grillo and have to buy new.

Thanks

 

[CodeMonkey]

The reverser on the 107d isn't a deal breaker for me. I prefer the BCS style, but that isn't enough.

ALso, from what I understand (I could be wrong), the 110D has a BCS style reverser - you might look into the 110D.

 

[jrpeterson05]

Thanks codemonkey. I have looked into that, but that is another $500 for the 110.

I know there has been some discussion about the powersafe clutch. I usually prefer things that are simple. It just seams like it is another thing that can go wrong or break. Does anyone have any thoughts or reasons why they prefer the powersafe clutch?

 

[CodeMonkey]

I think the better clutch, reverser and other features of the 110D would be worth it. I got my 107D used, but had I the choice and knew the better features of the 110D I would have paid the extra amount.

But to each their own.

 

[Jens767]

Hi jrpeterson05

You mention that you are concerned about the BCS PowerSafe clutch. A number of members have offered their opinions and told about their experience using this new clutch. You have probably read it already, but otherwise this thread

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/2-wheeled-tractors/231657-powersafe-clutch-bcs.html

offers 11 pages of good information.

I passed the first 100 hours on my BCS 740 (almost equivalent to the 749 in the US) this week, and I'm very pleased with the clutch. As it was new, it was difficult to find the "sweet spot" when releasing the clutch lever, and especially with high-torque implements like lawn mowers, that can put a lot of stress on the entire drivetrain. Approaching the 100 hours, this has become much better, and I find it much easier to "feel" the clutch now, and it really engages much smoother. Perhaps the clutch simply had a rather long brake-in period - or perhaps it's simply me getting a better feel for the tractor - I don't know

I can't comment on the traditional cone clutch or compare it with the PowerSafe clutch, as I have no experience using it.

Concerning steering brakes, it seems like some use them a lot, and others hardly use them at all. I belong to the latter group, so I wouldn't worry about the BCS 739 having none.


Best regards

Jens

 

[WillysWoodPile]

Have you looked into Koppl? I have just discovered them and have not researched them yet... only watched a few videos on YouTube.

KÖPPL GmbH

Main Street 118, Saldenburg / Entschenreuth , Bavaria |94163 Germany

 

[jrpeterson05]

Thanks everyone for your replies. This weekend I was able to look at a very lightly used BCS 739 at a very good price(less than an hour of use).

I haven't been able to use it very much yet but there is one thing that I have notices with it. I am having a hard time getting the PTO to slide into gear each time. sometimes it goes right in but most time it doesn't go in easily. With my 720 I could feather the clutch a little bit to get it to slide in but with the Powersafe clutch I don't believe that is possible, I tried a couple times and it grinds each time. I understand it really isn't possible to feather that clutch, it is either engaged or disengaged. Does anyone with a Powersafe clutch ever have that problem? Is there an easy way to get the PTO into gear?

Thanks

 

[NibbanaFarm]

I have a 739. If I can't get the pto to engage, sometimes it helps to engage the clutch, disengage, and try again. Or move the machine a little. I agree with Jens that it does seem to get smoother with time.

My guess is that it is probably a very excellent clutch strength wise. What I don't like about it is that it has a brake which instantly stops the machine when you disengage the clutch. It's not an issue with implements, but if you're riding a sulky, the instant stopping is very annoying.

I put steering brakes on mine. Just fitted some bicycle brake parts. I don't really get much out of them. The handlebars are so long on the machine that I don't really have any trouble steering mine. The limiting factor for me is how fast I can run in a circle necessary to turn on a dime.

Even with my complaints, this thing is hugely useful. It does a whole lot of work. And it's definitely built solid. Tiller, sickle bar mower and rotary plow are all fantastic. What this sickle bar mower can do is really amazing. Check my tread on the implement removal tool though. Those quick hitches can be difficult.

 

[jrpeterson05]

I put steering brakes on mine. Just fitted some bicycle brake parts. I don't really get much out of them. The handlebars are so long on the machine that I don't really have any trouble steering mine. The limiting factor for me is how fast I can run in a circle necessary to turn on a dime.

I haven't had much time to look into it but is it difficult to put the steering brakes on on 739?

 

[CodeMonkey]

Re: the PTO engagement.

It might be that the clutch is not adjusted properly.

Check to see if there is slack in the cable when the clutch is engaged. I am not sure about the power-safe clutch, but with conventional clutches, there should a little slack when it is engaged (clutch lever fully released). Conversely, when disengaged, the clutch should not be "dragging", which might cause gear/PTO "grinding". If there is too much slack in the clutch cable, then it may not be disengaging the clutch fully - there should just be a little slack in the cable. Too much or not enough can cause problems.

 

[NibbanaFarm]

I ordered some BMX bike brake levers and cables over the internet. They were very cheap. They were made for 1 1/8 inch handlebars. The tractor handlebars are 1 1/16 inch as I recall. I just cut a piece of steel conduit to use as a shim around the bars which just happened to be the exact right size. The only thing is, the levers I got were short. I would recommend the longer ones so you don't have to squeeze them as hard.

You have to secure the cable down on the bracket at the wheel. Just like on a bicycle. So I got that part at the local bike shop just so I could measure it and make sure it would fit through the hole in the bracket.

Finally, you need to clamp and adjust the cable to the brake arm. Just use the BCS part for clamping the parking brake cable. I couldn't find a parts diagram for the 739 on partstree.com and don't know where else to get BCS parts so I made this part. But if you can find them just get the BCS part. It will be a lot easier. Then you don't have to fabricate anything.

That's it. That's steering brakes. Now that I went through the trouble, I don't even think I'd bother with it again. For me, I just don't really find them very useful. Not sure. The jury's still out. They might get more use if you do a lot of mowing and snow blowing. Good luck.

 

[jrpeterson05]

Thanks NibbanaFarm, I am going to add steering brakes when I get a chance. If you get a chance could you upload some photos of the brakes you installed? I'm a visual learner.

I emailed BCS America yesterday about getting a parts list and they sent me this link to download it. http://www.bcsamerica.com/uploads/2013/08/739.pdf

I also ask for the parts list for the tiller. http://www.bcsamerica.com/uploads/2014/06/att.tiller.3dog.pdf

I hope those links work for you, if not and you would like the I would be happen to email you the PDFs.

 

[NibbanaFarm]

I don't have a super great camera. So if you can't see what's going on, just go to Walmart or a bicycle shop and look at a bicycle brake. Or a motorcycle brake for that matter. It's very simple. It's just a cable pulling on the brake arm. If you just look at one, it will become transparent. Then it's just a matter of finding the parts to fit. The whole system is ready to accept steering brakes. I think the bracket at the wheel has a 1/4 inch hole. So whatever you get to hold the cable down there has to fit a 1/4 inch hole. I think the hole in the brake arm is 3/8 inch. But the existing clamps will fit in the hole for the steering brakes. So just order 2 of the clamps that hold the parking brake cables on the brake arms. It will be much easier than making them. Then, whatever levers you use have to fit the handlebars. I had to shim the ones I got because they were too big. If you have a good, helpful bike shop locally, you will probably be able to get everything you need there.

 

[Ford850]

I use my steering brakes quite a bit while tilling between rows of plants. It seems like I can tweak the direction to correct things when the tiller pulls a little too close to the plants. The brakes make it easier to lightly steer it back on track, and away from the plants.

 

[ferrari99]

I don't know if it's technically the right way to do it but with your pto engagement problem I just start letting the clutch out slowing while gently pushing on the pto lever and it slips into gear without grinding. To satisfy my curiosity, with the brakes on the 739 do they have brakes on both sides because of the diff?

 

[jrpeterson05]

Thanks for the photos NibbanaFarm, it helped out. I am in the process of tracking down all the parts. I am finding it very difficult to find brake levers that size. Most bikes handlebars are around 22mm but these are 27mm (1 1/16"). I called half a dozen bike shops around me and couldn't find the right size. I finally had to order it online, it looks very similar to the levers you installed, I couldn't find anything longer either.

I have a had a chance to use the tiller a couple times and I can see where brakes would come in handy. My 720 is small and light enough that it was pretty easy to maneuver but the 739 is a bit more difficult, I think having brakes on it will help out.

Thanks Ford850, I tried that and if I let the clutch out very slow it will work, if I let it out to fast it still grinds. Hopefully with time and more use it wont be as bad.

I really don't know why the 739 has parking brakes. I don't believe the 732 has parking brakes even though it has a differential. I'm glad it does have brakes though, it does make it nice when I put it in the trailer to transport it (I do tie it down as well).