Tractor Sizing Need to Upgrade

[mx1alex]

I'm sure there's been a few thousand of these types of threads but here ya go...

We recently went from a 10 acre place to a 65 acre place (about 20 acres of pasture), so I'm needing to upgrade from my 18hp Yanmar 1401D to something bigger.

To start out, things I know I want: FEL, and 4x4. (I have a couple of steep hills to navigate to get to the back pasture).

The only thing really have to do is mow (brush hog), but I would like to be able to plant 3-5 of food plots, use it to help with cutting firewood, blade drive way, move gravel, and I'd really like to be able to move round bales of hay.

The hay thing seems to be my limiting factor right now. From what I have read I would need something 50hp or bigger to move hay with a FEL. I had a buddy who is a service guy at John Deere tell me a 5055E would work for what i want and they had one on the lot for $37,000. Quite a bit more than what I was looking to spend. I'm looking more in the $25K range... maybe $30.

I'm pretty open to brands. I have dealers of most the major brands within an hour of me. Can buy new or used but leaning towards new with some of the financing promos going on and I'm picturing this thing being my tractor for 20 years or better.

Your thoughts? As mentioned earlier it seems moving the hay is going to be my biggest obstacle and might be something I just won't be able to do. Right now I have somebody else mow and bale my hay and he takes a 1/3 and I sell him the other 2/3. We don't have cattle now but would like to have some in the future and I'd like to keep that 2/3 and be able to move it around for when we do have cattle. I could have the guy who bales the hay leave it in a spot where I wouldn't have to move it far. Just be able to move it through a gate basically. Price wise and 90% of my use wise I think I'd be fine with a 40-45hp tractor.

And since I know everybody likes pics here's my yanmar. I'm gonna miss this machine.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

How much do your round bales weigh? That sounds like the heaviest task and would dictate the loader size and thus the tractor size. Are you looking for a quickattach bale spear or a bucket spear? The distance from the loader pins makes a big difference in lift capacity. Nice machine btw! You should keep it as a backup!

 

[mx1alex]

How much do your round bales weigh? That sounds like the heaviest task and would dictate the loader size and thus the tractor size. Are you looking for a quickattach bale spear or a bucket spear? The distance from the loader pins makes a big difference in lift capacity. Nice machine btw! You should keep it as a backup!

Most of that is to be determined but would probably get a quick attach bale spike and I guess I could have whomever cuts my hay just make sure they stay below say 1,000 lbs.

I'd love to keep that little Yanmar. I can't even express how much confidence I have in that machine. Always starts up, have never got it stuck, it's labeled as 18hp but it easily outworked my John Deere 318. Unfortunately it's just not big enough for what I need now. I think I paid $3,200 for it and it came with a tiller, blade, brush hog, and finish mower. Thought I did pretty good!

 

[coobie]

Kioti,LS or mahindra tractors are a great value for $$ spent.

 

[dusty3030]

I second the vote to keep the Yanmar.

Kubota MX 5100 / MX 5200
John Deere 5055E
Mahindra 5530
LS U5030
Kioti DK55
Massey 1655

There is a list of about the size that would be perfect, especially if you kept your Yanmar and implements for smaller jobs.

 

[dave1949]

Welcome!

Ya, keep the Yanmar. It's probably going to be worth more to you than what you sell it for.

There are 3pt bale spears that don't have to be 3pt quick attach compatible. That would move bales but not stack them. 1000 lbs is not much for a 3pt lift ability which would get you into a smaller tractor. Counter balance the bale with the FEL, scoop some stone or dirt up in the bucket.

 

[mddorange]

:welcome:
From Northwest Alabama. For sure keep the Yanmar if you can.

 

[MrWhippy]

Agree. You should keep the Yanmar. If you want an economical bigger tractor for WAY less than $37,000, Look at the CNH Workmaster series. I have a WM 55 (55 hp, 48 at PTO) in 4X4. It's a fantastic tractor--we have almost 400 hours on it. We pull a 10 Woods mower, although I believe you could go up to a 12ft batwing.

There's a WM 65 and 75 too.

With FEL, our WM 55 was in the 28K range.

 

[ovrszd]

No disrespect intended. I think you should continue to let your neighbor hay your ground. If he's doing it for only 1/3 you are getting a great deal. Secondly, if you intend to get cattle, how many and where are you going to run them?? You are either going to limit your existing hay ground for pasture or run a very small number of cattle. Either way you are limiting the heavy work load on the tractor. Can't see you needing anything bigger than 40-50hp. And I'm the guy that's always saying "buy big".

As for the Yanmar, why would you consider selling it?? You will "give" it away in a trade deal for a new tractor. Actually could probably save some money by leaving it home. And it will come in very handy for those small jobs like your blading picture.

Keep us posted on your decision. We love to watch people spend money. Pictures of course.

 

[George2615]

I wouldn't trade the Yanmar in but if you decide to sell you should still get what you mentioned you paid for it then add that to your new tractor purchase price. Many brands are available in the size and price range you're looking at.

 

[the old grind]

+1 on all the advice above. '3 PT bale spear' means never having to say "why did I buy too big for just that one task".

I'd as soon buy 'used' with say 1000 hrs or less and skip warranty hassles if I though most things that'd break would have already by then.

Agree that Kioti, LS and Mahindra will give top value/performance per dollar but I've seen some good deals on low-hour machines. (a Winter thing)
Here's an example well under $25k: (see it while it lasts) TYM T503 Tractor w/ Loader- 4WD - Hodges Farm Equipment Note 2 scv (pairs) & QA FEL
For later viewing of this model: TractorData.com TYM T503 tractor information
TYM Reviews - TractorByNet.com

Yes, do keep the Yanmar, as a favor to yourself. :welcome:

 

[mx1alex]

I'd sell the Yanmar on my own. I don't think I'd have a hard time getting what I want for it with all the attachments I'd let go with it. I'll probably keep the blade since it was really a touch big for the yanmar anyways and then use the money from the yanmar to get a bigger rotary cutter, disk, etc.

 

[mx1alex]

No disrespect intended. I think you should continue to let your neighbor hay your ground. If he's doing it for only 1/3 you are getting a great deal. Secondly, if you intend to get cattle, how many and where are you going to run them?? You are either going to limit your existing hay ground for pasture or run a very small number of cattle. Either way you are limiting the heavy work load on the tractor. Can't see you needing anything bigger than 40-50hp. And I'm the guy that's always saying "buy big".

As for the Yanmar, why would you consider selling it?? You will "give" it away in a trade deal for a new tractor. Actually could probably save some money by leaving it home. And it will come in very handy for those small jobs like your blading picture.

Keep us posted on your decision. We love to watch people spend money. Pictures of course.

No disrespect taken and I appreciate the input. Don't really plan on having much cattle. Neighbor has 35 acres I could rent and continue to hay my place... idk. Nothing is set in stone other than I know I need a bigger tractor to manage my property and I'd like for that tractor to be able to move a round bale from where the hay guy leaves it into where I would keep half a dozen cow/calfs or so to feed them during winter.

 

[TSO]

I'd sell the Yanmar on my own. I don't think I'd have a hard time getting what I want for it with all the attachments I'd let go with it. I'll probably keep the blade since it was really a touch big for the yanmar anyways and then use the money from the yanmar to get a bigger rotary cutter, disk, etc.

I'd still suggest keeping the Yanmar for the little tasks. I have the size tractor you're talking about getting. It's great for most stuff. But, I'd still like something smaller available for little stuff... and you've already got the attachments sized for it.

To narrow down your decision, it might be important to talk about features and proper "sizing" of implements for the jobs you want done. I say that because you can easily spend under $30k to get a tractor that will move a round bale.

Features:
Transmission choice: Do you want Shuttle Shift, Hydrostatic, Power-Shuttle? This is worth mentioning because if you want HST, which is the best transmission choice for constant loader work, that will limit you to certain tractor categories. Shuttle will widen the range the most, and Power-Shuttle will be somewhere in-between Shuttle & HST.

Options & creature comforts: Do you want a tractor that comes with a quick-detach loader, extendable 3-pt lift arms, telescoping stabilizer arms, deluxe seating, tilt steering, standard remotes, etc? Don't laugh, but once you get used to some of these things, you'll wonder what you ever did without them. My first tractor did not have extendable lift arms, or telescoping stabilizer arms for the lift-arms... boy what a difference it makes! So much easier to hook up & adjust your implements.

Cab consideration: You can get into a 45-60 hp CAB tractor, with most of the above options, that will lift a round bale, for under $30k. I absolutely love having a cab. I think everyone that has a cab loves having a cab! Don't overlook this option because it really changes your comfort and experience if you're spending long hours on your tractor.

Capabilities - Implement sizing: There seems to be a general rule that you need 5-7 HP at the PTO, per foot of implement. So, if you want to run a 6 ft BrushHog, you should have around 30 PTO-HP. If you want to run a small round baler, I think you need around 35-45 PTO-HP.

If your bales weigh 1000-1500lbs, then pretty much any tractor in the large CUT (compact utility tractor) segment will lift them. For most companies, these start at 40hp & up. So, you don't necessarily have to get a tractor like the 5055e, as that is in the "utility" segment and is a larger machine.

Here are machines in the "CUT" range that would work.

Kioti DS4510HS (45 hp, power-shuttle, no cab option)
Kioti DK40,45,50 (40,45,50 hp Shuttle & HST - this model is now discontinued because it was replaced by...)
Kioti NX4510,50,55,6010 (HST or Shuttle)
LS R4047 (outgoing) or LS XR4046
TYM T503 (shuttle or HST)
Mahindra 5010 (actually the same as the TYM T503)
Mahindra 5035
Massey 1648,1652 (HST) 1655 (shuttle), 1660 (power-shuttle) - these models are now replaced by...
Massey 1749,1754,1758,1759.
JD 4320,4520,4720 - now replaced by the 4044,4055,4066.
Kubota MX4700,5100 - replaced by new models, can't remember the numering
Kubota Grand L - 4240,4740,5240,5740 - now replaced by
Kubota Grand L - 4760 & up.

There's more, but those come to mind.

Up from that is the Utility tractors, which will not have HST, but will come with Shuttle or PS. I really don't know the models in this class by heart - I know the ones from LS and that's about it LOL
LS U5020,U5030,XU5065
JD 5055E

Good luck!

 

[newbury]

You've had the Yanmar for years so you've got experience with tractors.
It doesn't read like you plan on using the next tractor for full time work, so you PROBABLY won't be running it even 500 hours a year.
If you buy a GOOD used 50 HP tractor (mechanically verified as sound) it should last for 4,000 hours and do everything you want even loading a big round bale on the FEL (my M4700 lifts a ton on the FEL), and will probably pull haying equipment.

I fully agree with keeping the Yanmar, it's handy having two tractors.

If you keep the Yanmar look at places like Barlow's, they list a couple of nice tractors well within your price range Like a MX5100HST, 2010, with 23.3 hours, an LA844 loader, and an A5392 (whatever that is) for $23,500.00.

/edit - and also consider most new tractors will be tier 4.

 

[mx1alex]

You fellas sure know how to make a guys head spin! Ha!

Ya I haven't decided on what tranny I want yet. I will definitely be doing some food plotting so I will be working some ground so I'm kinda scared to go the HST route. Kind of leaning towards the shuttle shift or power shuttle. Is there a big difference in terms of maintenance or wear and tear between the two?

I don't know if I would really need a quick detach loader. I can't think of many reasons why I would need to take it off.

Cab would be nice but I'd rather spend that money on attachments at this point. Gonna need a bigger rotary cutter. Want a disc, drill, 4 row planter, cultipacker, and on and on!

Definitely want adjustable 3pt arms.

 

[TSO]

You fellas sure know how to make a guys head spin! Ha!

Ya I haven't decided on what tranny I want yet. I will definitely be doing some food plotting so I will be working some ground so I'm kinda scared to go the HST route. Kind of leaning towards the shuttle shift or power shuttle. Is there a big difference in terms of maintenance or wear and tear between the two?

I don't know if I would really need a quick detach loader. I can't think of many reasons why I would need to take it off.

Cab would be nice but I'd rather spend that money on attachments at this point. Gonna need a bigger rotary cutter. Want a disc, drill, 4 row planter, cultipacker, and on and on!

Definitely want adjustable 3pt arms.

Yeah, for your described use, I would suggest against HST. Not because it wouldn't hold up, but because it sounds like you'll be doing much more "ground engaging" than precise work.

No difference in reliability really between any of the transmission choices.

Main reason to have a quick detach loader is comfort. If you're brush-hogging a lot of area, the ride will be much more comfortable with the loader removed. You will bounce much less. Main reasons to keep it on during mowing would be A, to keep the bucket close to the ground so that you can discover any large objects before you drive over them with the mower, & B, if you are in a wet or potentially muddy area and might need to dig yourself out.

 

[Raised on a Deere]

Also don't get confused about quick loader and quick bucket detach. I have not had my loader off even though it is quick and easy. But my bucket comes off all the time, sometimes to improve the ride when mowing but mostly in switching between a grapple and the bucket. I now still think of how close a call it was that a Kubota salesman trying to keep the price down about $600 told me I probably would not need quick attach. I almost fell for it because I could not think at the time of a good reason to spend the $600 extra.

I still have nightmares over that one. Pallet forks are coming soon and perhaps a stump digger. But the grapple is a killer app as they say in geek land. That quick attach opens so many doors. Do not get a loader with out skidsteer quick attach system or you will regret it soon unless you absolutely know what you are going to be doing with the tractor. Yes there are those that don't need it. But with that land you describe and the amount of money you appear willing to invest, you are going to be launching into all sorts of things you have not even thought of just yet.

 

[tman1020]

I had Yanmar 14 01D also was a great tractor I also found it too small so I traded up to a 17 02D with a Koyker 120 loader on the front. This was also a great tractor and almost perfect for my needs at the time. very strong loader and a nice size tractor. Came across a deal I couldn't pass up on a bobcat CT 225 with a loader "it is almost the same thing as a kioti CK 27". I kept the Yanmar For quite a while just because I couldn't bear to let it go but after months of never even starting it once I got the new tractor I sold it so someone else could enjoy it and have no regrets. My tractor is hydrostat and has a very big platform is the easiest tractor I've ever run it is a joy to use. I do food plots as well as gardening and have had absolutely no problems with ground engagement. The hydrostat makes mowing a breezeand my loader which has the Bob tech quick attach release bucket would handle a bale spear and left 1000 pounds no problem

 

[tman1020]

Here is a picture of the 1702 next to the CT 225. The people that mentioned the cab are spot on. I had never used a cab beforeand did not realize how useful they can be. Not sure what climate you have but you can get cabs with heat and AC plus they offer bug protection. My property is a little smaller than yours so this tractor fits me perfect and would probably get you by if it's all your budget will allow. But for the size of acreage you're mentioning I think you're on the right track for the 45 to 55 hp range. But do yourself a favor get the factory cab with the heat and AC right off the bat.