Ballast Ballast Location Effect on Tractor

[2fast916]

Quick question I can't seem to get seem to get a unanimous answer on locally...

I have a ballast box of sorts attached to my Kubota BX25's 3-pt hitch. What effect does the ballast box have on the tractor when the 3-point hitch is in the lowest position vs the highest position? My personal opinion is when the ballast is in the lowest position it offers a greator lever arm and lightens the front end while offering a lower c.g. When in the highest position, it has a shorter lever arm and doesn't counter balance the front end as much and has a higher c.g. Does this sound right?

What effect does up and down have on weight added to the rear wheels?

Probably should have mentioned this in the beginning but, I'm pushing snow with this set-up and am trying to find the best position to add overall weight to the tractor without reducing the weight on the front tires (so I don't lose steering traction). BTW...the plow is currently mounted to the tractors frame and the loader is off. In the future, I plan on fabricating a system so I can leave the loader on and mount the plow to it....which I feel would help add weight to the front end and give me freedom to pile snow higher.

Any and all advice is 100% appreciated!!!!!

 

[tman1020]

Most Any time weight is added the lower the better. This has more to do with stability than traction. I doubt there is much difference in traction hi or low.

 

[whistlepig]

I'm not an expert but this is what little I know. Raising the ballast box will make your COG higher. A little like running around with the loader bucket all the way up. As the ballast box is raised the three point's arc will case it to move closer to the front of the tractor as it is raised. This would somewhat reduce the weight from the rear wheels but I cannot see this being a significant amount.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

If you don't have tire chains, the amount of weight is almost not relevant . If your Main concern is steering, putting the plow on a loader WILL make things worse.

 

[2fast916]

Thank you all for your replies! Gonna stick to running it low...


RedNeckRacin,

Why do you say putting the plow on a loaded WILL make it worse?

If you don't have tire chains, the amount of weight is almost not relevant . If your Main concern is steering, putting the plow on a loader WILL make things worse.

 

[GManBart]

If you don't have tire chains, the amount of weight is almost not relevant .

I don't believe that for one second. The R1s aren't loaded on my Massey, but I have a 1,400lb counterweight. Last year when we got tons of snow I needed to pull my neighbor's tractor from deep snow (he was stuck trying to pull a huge downed tree). Without 3pt ballast all I did was spin the rear tires. I put my 1,400lb counterweight on, and pulling him out was no problem...no other change. I'm sure chains would have helped, but I don't think they would have made as much difference as the counterweight did. You need weight to get the chains to bite through the packed snow and ice.

 

[GManBart]

Quick question I can't seem to get seem to get a unanimous answer on locally...

I have a ballast box of sorts attached to my Kubota BX25's 3-pt hitch. What effect does the ballast box have on the tractor when the 3-point hitch is in the lowest position vs the highest position? My personal opinion is when the ballast is in the lowest position it offers a greator lever arm and lightens the front end while offering a lower c.g. When in the highest position, it has a shorter lever arm and doesn't counter balance the front end as much and has a higher c.g. Does this sound right?

What effect does up and down have on weight added to the rear wheels?

Probably should have mentioned this in the beginning but, I'm pushing snow with this set-up and am trying to find the best position to add overall weight to the tractor without reducing the weight on the front tires (so I don't lose steering traction). BTW...the plow is currently mounted to the tractors frame and the loader is off. In the future, I plan on fabricating a system so I can leave the loader on and mount the plow to it....which I feel would help add weight to the front end and give me freedom to pile snow higher.

Any and all advice is 100% appreciated!!!!!

I think you have the geometry figured out properly, so that's a good start.

The 3pt weight will give you good rear traction, so now it's a matter of adding weight to the front for steering. I wouldn't add weight to the tires because you're not going to want that when you reverse things in the Spring. I'd see if you could fashion some weights that bolt up to the FEL mounting holes, or to the front bumper....just a couple hundred pounds should make a big difference, and would be easily removed.

 

[2fast916]

I think you have the geometry figured out properly, so that's a good start.

The 3pt weight will give you good rear traction, so now it's a matter of adding weight to the front for steering. I wouldn't add weight to the tires because you're not going to want that when you reverse things in the Spring. I'd see if you could fashion some weights that bolt up to the FEL mounting holes, or to the front bumper....just a couple hundred pounds should make a big difference, and would be easily removed.

I've actually contemplated adding weight to the front. The only reason I haven't tested is because my plow mounts to the front of the frame and makes adding a hanging weight not possible. I will need to come up with some other method...

Anyone comment on putting the plow on my loader (ie fabed to install on its own without the bucket...not some bolt / chain on bucket deal)?

 

[Jerry/MT]

Quick question I can't seem to get seem to get a unanimous answer on locally...

I have a ballast box of sorts attached to my Kubota BX25's 3-pt hitch. What effect does the ballast box have on the tractor when the 3-point hitch is in the lowest position vs the highest position? My personal opinion is when the ballast is in the lowest position it offers a greator lever arm and lightens the front end while offering a lower c.g. When in the highest position, it has a shorter lever arm and doesn't counter balance the front end as much and has a higher c.g. Does this sound right?

What effect does up and down have on weight added to the rear wheels?

Probably should have mentioned this in the beginning but, I'm pushing snow with this set-up and am trying to find the best position to add overall weight to the tractor without reducing the weight on the front tires (so I don't lose steering traction). BTW...the plow is currently mounted to the tractors frame and the loader is off. In the future, I plan on fabricating a system so I can leave the loader on and mount the plow to it....which I feel would help add weight to the front end and give me freedom to pile snow higher.

Any and all advice is 100% appreciated!!!!!

Raising or lowering the 3 pt with the weight on it will effect the front to rear weight distribution as well as the CG of the tractor as you described. The higher position will increase the weight on the front end if the weight moves forward because the cg moves forward as well as vertically up. So you gain steering capability at the expense of lateral stability, which is important on slopes. How much depends on the weight of the tractor and the ballast weight and the changes in forward and vertical locations in the combined cg of the weight plus the tractor. Tractors can be tippy on side hills so always traverse with the weight in the lowest position

 

[oosik]

Weight on the 3-point hitch will help by putting more weight on the rear tires and increasing traction. Raising or lowering the weight on the 3-point hitch will do very little to nothing regarding increasing/decreasing traction or weight on the rear tires. Raising the weight on the 3-point hitch will decrease the overall stability of the tractor.

Add the ballast box to the 3-point hitch and keep it low. If steering becomes a problem you might have to add weight to the front end also.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Interesting thread going here. I'll just add my $.02. First of all what kind of tires do you have? From what I read on here R-4's are the worst in snow. Then R-1's with R-3's having better traction in snow then the other two. If you use chain's then the tire type doesn't matter.

Have you tried pushing snow without the ballast box? You might find like I did that the ballast box takes too much weight off the front end and it works better to push snow with no weights at all. I don' use any weights on my John Deere 4410 and I run our of power long before I run out of traction pushing regular dry snow. I'm running R-3's with no chains. This has been my experience. Others may find they need ballast.

If you add the blade to the front end loader the leverage the loader has versis where your blade is now is going to make it harder for your front tires to counteract the force of an angled blade. You will have more weight in front with the loader on but you might have to run a set of tire chains in front so that you can steer.

Have fun figuring at all out.

 

[bigtiller]

Your bx25 is the same size as my JD2305 was. I made a weight bracket for the 3ph and hung four 40 pound suitcase weights to counter act the weight of a 49 inch single stage snowblower. I tried 6 weights at first, but thought it took too much weight off the front tires.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I don't believe that for one second. The R1s aren't loaded on my Massey, but I have a 1,400lb counterweight. Last year when we got tons of snow I needed to pull my neighbor's tractor from deep snow (he was stuck trying to pull a huge downed tree). Without 3pt ballast all I did was spin the rear tires. I put my 1,400lb counterweight on, and pulling him out was no problem...no other change. I'm sure chains would have helped, but I don't think they would have made as much difference as the counterweight did. You need weight to get the chains to bite through the packed snow and ice.

If your in the winter, your going to run into ice. No amount of weight on r-1's is going to overcome that. The coefficient of friction dictates (Static or dynamic, your choice.). I'm running a 11klb + machine in 4wd with R-1s that is almost helpless without chains on. I can probably climb the side of a tree with all 4 tires chained now though.


OPutting the plow on the loader will make your front end traction worse. The plow will have significantly more leverage over the front end even though the loader weight will be there. If you are really good, you might be able to offset some of this effect by not running the loader in float, but to get a good clean, the plow should float.

 

[2fast916]

Interesting thread going here. I'll just add my $.02. First of all what kind of tires do you have? From what I read on here R-4's are the worst in snow. Then R-1's with R-3's having better traction in snow then the other two. If you use chain's then the tire type doesn't matter.

Have you tried pushing snow without the ballast box? You might find like I did that the ballast box takes too much weight off the front end and it works better to push snow with no weights at all. I don' use any weights on my John Deere 4410 and I run our of power long before I run out of traction pushing regular dry snow. I'm running R-3's with no chains. This has been my experience. Others may find they need ballast.

If you add the blade to the front end loader the leverage the loader has versis where your blade is now is going to make it harder for your front tires to counteract the force of an angled blade. You will have more weight in front with the loader on but you might have to run a set of tire chains in front so that you can steer.

Have fun figuring at all out.

I am running R4 tires on my BX, whenever pushing snow. I own R3 (turf) tires as well but, only use them in the summer when hitting landscaped areas frequently. I never would have thought that R3 tires would be better than R4's...guess I can give it a try.

I have tried without the ballast box but, honestly, only when we get an inch or two. Guess I can try that too...removing the ballast while pushing larger amounts.

Makes sense about the loader arms adding leverage to the plow and breaking the front tire's traction. I wonder where that point of traction loss is and if I could live with it. My bro has a 40-hp LS and does his plowing this way and hasn't complained....then again, I know his machine is much heavier than mine. I assume pushing with the plow square wouldn't be an isue....more to think about.

 

[2fast916]

Your bx25 is the same size as my JD2305 was. I made a weight bracket for the 3ph and hung four 40 pound suitcase weights to counter act the weight of a 49 inch single stage snowblower. I tried 6 weights at first, but thought it took too much weight off the front tires.

Funny you write this...I have a similiar set-up but, I started with 8 40-lb suitcase weights on the 3-pt and eventually worked down to using 6.

 

[2fast916]

If your in the winter, your going to run into ice. No amount of weight on r-1's is going to overcome that. The coefficient of friction dictates (Static or dynamic, your choice.). I'm running a 11klb + machine in 4wd with R-1s that is almost helpless without chains on. I can probably climb the side of a tree with all 4 tires chained now though.


OPutting the plow on the loader will make your front end traction worse. The plow will have significantly more leverage over the front end even though the loader weight will be there. If you are really good, you might be able to offset some of this effect by not running the loader in float, but to get a good clean, the plow should float.

Thanks!...makes sense!

 

[2fast916]

For the record...probablly should have stated in the beginning of the post:

Rear R4's are loaded with beet juice

I have chains for both front and rear tires but, never use them because I don't need the traction and am afraid of damaging driveway blacktop.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

For the record...probablly should have stated in the beginning of the post:

Rear R4's are loaded with beet juice

I have chains for both front and rear tires but, never use them because I don't need the traction and am afraid of damaging driveway blacktop.

Well, turf tires generally do perform better in snow than R-1 or R-4. If you can scrape to blacktop, I'd try and avoid the chains as long as possible. I have an L3400 with the rears loaded with beet juice and the fronts have 2 link v-bar chains with a frame mounted plow. Straight ahead on the level or downhill, I can push snow up over the blade. If I have to go uphill it really changes things because there is not enough weight on the front tires.Rear chains would solve things problem, more weight would not. The tread is to wide to make a difference with weight alone.

I'm going to pretty much abandon the open station tractor with 2 tires chains to go to a cabbed (HEATED!!) tractor with 4 tires chained and a loader mounted plow simply because I couldn't figure out a good way to frame mount it without giving up ground clearance. and it was cheaper to fab up a quick attach mount than it was to buy tire chains and wheel spacers. And did i mention the bigger tractor has a heated cab?! Yeah, easy decision!

 

[jimmysisson]

And if you regularly leave that much weight hanging on the three-point, why not add a chain or two to hold it up at the height you think best. That would strain the lift seals much less.
Jim

 

[aeblank]

Where/how are you chaining? I would argue that chaining puts odd/unintended loads on parts/pieces that wasn't intended.
The hydraulics / seals / etc. doesn't care. They don't get tired from holding something. Set it down when parked for safety though.