Stripped Stud and Stud Extractors

[llbaker2]

I'm interested in a bolt extractor set. Problem is I'm confused by sizing of extractors. Are given extractor sizes in reference to the hex size (flat to flat of bolt head - dimension H in diagram below) or the normal dimension of the bolt shaft (dimension D in diagram below)? I assume its in reference to the hex size (dimension H) but I'm not sure. I am trying to remove a M16 x 1.5 wheel stud not a bolt (doesn't have a hexagon head). I need a stud or bolt extractor that will fit the shaft of the stud which has a normal dimension of 16 mm (dimension D in diagram below). A 16 mm bolt would normally have a bolt head that fit a 24 mm socket/wrench (dimension H). When trying to remove the lug nut from the stud I stripped the threads from the shaft of the stud. One would normally put two nuts on the stud and tighten one against the other then turn with a 24 mm socket/wrench to remove the stud but I cant do that because I stripped the threads. I could try to clean up the threads and try to get two nuts onto the stud but doubt the damaged threads would stand up to the torque that would be required to remove the stud. I hope the bolt extractor will have enough bite to take the required torque to break the stud loose so I can replace it with a new one. My question is what size extractor would I need to fit the shaft (16 mm normal dimension - dimension H below) of the stud for removal? Might just weld a nut to the stud but would be nice to have a set of extractors for future.

 

[DK35vince]

If the treads are ruined already, and you have plenty of stud sticking out to get ahold of. It maybe easiest to just use a pipe wrench and spin it out.
Or weld a nut to the stud and spin it out .

 

[llbaker2]

If the treads are ruined already, and you have plenty of stud sticking out to get ahold of. It maybe easiest to just use a pipe wrench and spin it out.
Or weld a nut to the stud and spin it out .

Yea, I been practicing a little. I'm a total welding rookie. Just got my first machine (MIG). I have no confidence in my welding. Been running some practice beads and tried welding a nut to a 1/2" bolt for practice before doing it for real. Will most likely try that first but think I would like to have a set of extractors. I now have an excuse to get them. Would like to be sure I get something that will fit the stud if I decide to go for it. Had one heck of a time getting wheel bolts/studs broke loose. Wound up spraying them with PB Blaster, let them soak overnight and then hammered away on them with 1/2" impact for quite some time before they finally broke loose. Not sure a pipe wrench would cut it - to tight (at least my old worn out hand-me-down wrenches). Think the heat from welding a nut onto stud might help.

 

[DK35vince]

This Craftsman bolt extractor set gives the bolt sizes it will work on. (click the view full description)
Sears.com

 

[llbaker2]

Thanks for response Vince but I think you miss my point. When it says in the description for example "#3 Bolt-Out fits 11mm and 7/16 in. size fastener" doesn't that mean it fits an 11mm and 7/16" bolt (with hex head). What if its a stud with no bolt head, just a threaded shaft. The head on a 7/16" bolt is way bigger than the shaft. A 5/8" wench (hex size) is standard for use on a 7/16" bolt (see bolt chart at https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Bolts/US-Bolt-Head-Size.aspx). For example according to this chart I'm guessing you would use a 1/4" extractor to remove a 7/16 stud because I think a 1/4" bolt has a 7/16" hexagon head.

Oh and by the way Who's on first?

 

[DK35vince]

Thanks for response Vince but I think you miss my point. When it says in the description for example "#3 Bolt-Out fits 11mm and 7/16 in. size fastener" doesn't that mean it fits an 11mm and 7/16" bolt (with hex head).

No. They are saying that is the size of bolt/stud this kit will fit with no head. Shaft only
You hammer the extractor onto the stud. The extractor bites onto the stud shaft and you screw the stud out.

 

[bcp]

Usually there is no bolt head at all. That's why you need the extractor. Use the nominal bolt size. It is common to find the same size bolts with different size heads, especially when you get to 1/2 inch and above. But a 1/2 inch bolt is always a 1/2 inch bolt, even if one has a 3/4 head and another has a 13/16 head.

Bruce

 

[cruz54982]

You said lug nuts so I am wondering if the stud is not the normal pressed in type with a round head on the inside ? if it is you just drive it out with a large hammer and replace it the same way with a new one = better check the back side for a round head if so just drive it out it is not threaded into the hub .

 

[DK35vince]

You said lug nuts so I am wondering if the stud is not the normal pressed in type with a round head on the inside ? if it is you just drive it out with a large hammer and replace it the same way with a new one = better check the back side for a round head if so just drive it out it is not threaded into the hub .

It could be either type. Threaded or pressed.
He does need to check that.
I know my tractor has lug nuts on the outer side, and the stud treads into the hub on the inside

 

[llbaker2]

Usually there is no bolt head at all. That's why you need the extractor. Use the nominal bolt size. It is common to find the same size bolts with different size heads, especially when you get to 1/2 inch and above. But a 1/2 inch bolt is always a 1/2 inch bolt, even if one has a 3/4 head and another has a 13/16 head.

Bruce

Most descriptions I've read reference use on rounded off nuts and bolts and/or studs. Big difference between diameters of the two. When the corners of a hex head get rounded off a wrench will just slip off thus the use of an extractor. Don't think you can say "usually there is no head" because I think the socket type extractors I'm talking about are frequently use on rounded off hex heads. While it may be common for a given bolt to have multiple hex sizes there is a "standard" size associated with bolts (see link to chart in previous post). There are exceptions to just about everything. While its true a 1/2 inch bolt is a 1/2 inch bolt the wrench size used on it is larger than the shaft size and that's my point. If an extractor is sized in reference to the nominal shaft size then it seems to me a 1/2" extractor would/could be to small to fit a 1/2" bolt with hex head intact. That just doesn't seem very logical. I don't mean to be a smarty pants but am still not convinced that socket type bolt extractors are sized in reference to the nominal dimensions of the bolt or stud shaft. Heck I don't know. I'm still confused by the descriptions I've read. I assume you are speaking from experience are right but would like to be sure before I pick up a set.

 

[llbaker2]

You said lug nuts so I am wondering if the stud is not the normal pressed in type with a round head on the inside ? if it is you just drive it out with a large hammer and replace it the same way with a new one = better check the back side for a round head if so just drive it out it is not threaded into the hub .

The rear wheel has both bolts (4 I think) and studs (2) that thread into the hub. They are not press-in.

 

[bcp]

I think we have a failure to communicate here.

This is what I am thinking of:

Screw & Bolt Extractor Sets - Machining Supplies - Grainger Industrial Supply

This must be what you are thinking of:

PROTO Bolt'/'Stud'/'Screw Extractor Set,10 PC - Screw'/'Bolt Extractor Sets - 2TJ52'|'J69X00 - Grainger Industrial Supply

Bruce

 

[llbaker2]

I think we have a failure to communicate here.

This is what I am thinking of:

Screw & Bolt Extractor Sets - Machining Supplies - Grainger Industrial Supply

This must be what you are thinking of:

PROTO Bolt'/'Stud'/'Screw Extractor Set,10 PC - Screw'/'Bolt Extractor Sets - 2TJ52'|'J69X00 - Grainger Industrial Supply

Bruce

You hit the nail on the head my friend. I am use to referring to the item you were talking about as easy outs. That's what my Dad always called them and he knew everything (or at least I thought so at the time). Sorry for the confusion I should have included a photo or something.

As you suspected I was talking about the socket-like tools that fit over outside of bolt head/shaft or stud as in the second link.

 

[DK35vince]

Easy outs work on bolts that are broken off flush, that you can not get ahold of.
The extractors are for rounded off bolt heads or studs that are sticking out enough to get the extractor on.
Personally I would just weld a nut on the stud and spin the bad stud out and be done with it.
Then I would still get the extractor set for later use, because they can come in handy when you need them.

 

[JimRB]

Bolts and studs are labeled based on the bolt diameter and thread pitch. If I were to dig around in a bolt and studs box (odds and ends box pack rats keep) I could find 3/8" bolts or even 12 mm bolt with different size heads. If you go to the hardware store or Home Depot they have an aisle filled with bolts, nuts and screws labeled by shank size and pitch. Nothing by bolt head size. I think BCP answered one of your questions already.

 

[llbaker2]

Easy outs work on bolts that are broken off flush, that you can not get ahold of.
The extractors are for rounded off bolt heads or studs that are sticking out enough to get the extractor on.
Personally I would just weld a nut on the stud and spin the bad stud out and be done with it.
Then I would still get the extractor set for later use, because they can come in handy when you need them.

Exactly my thoughts. As I said previously the first thing I will try it welding a nut to the stud. If I had them in hand I would try the bolt extractor first but I will have to order them form a web site and don't plan to wait on them but will have on hand for next time. Think I have pretty much convinced myself that the socket style bolt extractors are sized according hex head size. Seems logical. I assume the flutes are tapered and a set will fit a continuous range of head/shaft sizes of standard sized bolts/studs.

 

[Winmac]

The sizing should refer to shank or nominal thread size.
But with the propagation of Chinese junk ignoring engineering standards nothing would surprise me any more.

 

[llbaker2]

Bolts and studs are labeled based on the bolt diameter and thread pitch. If I were to dig around in a bolt and studs box (odds and ends box pack rats keep) I could find 3/8" bolts or even 12 mm bolt with different size heads. If you go to the hardware store or Home Depot they have an aisle filled with bolts, nuts and screws labeled by shank size and pitch. Nothing by bolt head size. I think BCP answered one of your questions already.

Thanks for your comments JimRB. As far as I know bolts are not normally labeled with size. Hardened bolts are labeled with hardness values (metric) or symbols (SAE). Yes they are sized according to nominal bolt diameter and pitch and yes bolts sometimes have different sized heads. I'm aware of all this. I don't dispute this. There are standard sizes though which include hex head size. All this was never in question. I attempted to pointed out by listing examples that there is a big difference between hex size and shaft size in an effort to try to clarify my original question. My question was how are socket style bolt extractors sized. As I said above I think I have convinced myself that they are sized according to hex size just like regular wrenches and sockets. Doesn't seem logical to size them by nominal shaft size (stud size) when they are meant for use on both rounded bolt heads and/or studs when convention is to size to hex size (as with wrenches and sockets).

Thanks to all for your comments. If anyone has personal experience using socket style bolt extractors and can verify or dispute my conclusions your input would be appreciated.

 

[llbaker2]

Vince I stand corrected. I was not aware you had a set of these socket style extractors. Thanks so much for sharing your experience with me. I can now purchase a set with confidence they will fit my need. I am surprised that they are sized to nominal shaft size rather than hex size.

 

[DK35vince]

I have looked a several of the Craftsman extractor kits online since your post.
It seems like each kit I look at has a different # extractor listed as fitting a different size bolt.
So the # sizing for the extractor evidently means nothing. Craftsmen doen't seem to have a consistent sizing # on their extractor kits
The one kit shows #8 extractor fitting 16mm, the next kit shows a #10 extractor fitting 16mm.
I guess you just grab one out of the kit that fits and use it.
That's all I have ever done. I never payed any attention to the sizing #