Tier 4 emissions

[TractorLegend]

....would be a reason I would be discouraged from buying a new model tractor. After-treatment system (soot filter) EGR valve- NO THANKS!
These are a big dollar source of trouble for many people with late model diesel automobiles and trucks.
I'm not sure when they go haywire on a tractor, like on many autos, if they also derate the power via computer controls so you're forced to fix it.
I'm not sure the logic Big Brother applies to requiring this on such limited use equipment as a tractor or a diesel powered generator.
Saving babies and unicorns, I guess. At the consumers expense. Rant over.

 

[Wolfy]

For what it is worth, I have heard that the new tractor engines are far more reliable than modern diesel vehicles, I guess time will tell.

 

[TractorLegend]

I'm all for turbocharging and direct injection! :~}

 

[445A]

Maybe the hot rodders will help out with programmers, like they did with diesel pickups.:confused3: 445A

 

[TractorLegend]

For what it is worth, I have heard that the new tractor engines are far more reliable than modern diesel vehicles, I guess time will tell.

I can believe that about the engine itself but the after-treatment systems are still in the experimental stages.
The trend, by nature, makes things more complicated to work on and own. Leaving the door open for proprietary diagnostics and software updates (such as on land rovers and many others) that tie you into repairs at the dealers.
I don't think these emission controls couldn't be computer controlled.
I'd be interested to hear from newer tractor owners who have Tier 4 and a some hours on their rigs if this has been trouble free?
Is there now a Check Engine Light just like on autos? Is the power programmed to be reduced when there's a particle filter system trouble or check engine light event such as on a 2008 Dodge diesel?

 

[Recoveryhill]

These are a big dollar source of trouble for many people with late model diesel automobiles and trucks.
I'm not sure when they go haywire on a tractor, like on many autos, if they also derate the power via computer controls so you're forced to fix it.
I'm not sure the logic Big Brother applies to requiring this on such limited use equipment as a tractor or a diesel powered generator.
Saving babies and unicorns, I guess. At the consumers expense. Rant over.

I couldn't disagree with you more. The cost of emissions with Tier 4 is shifted to the owner operator, where it should be. It is unfair to leave the cost to the general public in having to consume an owner/operator's pollution. Take a look at the effect of diesel soot emissions and that puff of black stuff doesn't look so good anymore.

Everybody wants to say, "But it's just little old me with my little old machine" but the problem is that there a million "little old me(s)". Take a peek at Bejing or Shanghi China and you should get the point. Any of you visit Los Angeles in the 1960's vs now? You couldn't see three blocks for the smog back then and now the air is relatively clean.

Yes there is a cost to Tier 4 but rather than pi$$ and moan, be happy you're delivering clean air to your neighbor's baby. I don't know they had Unicorns in Washington State

 

[TractorLegend]

Any of you visit Los Angeles in the 1960's vs now? You couldn't see three blocks for the smog back then and now the air is relatively clean.

I don't know they had Unicorns in Washington State

I should clarify- I do see the want and need for tighter emissions on automobiles due to the sheer number of them and miles driven. They represent a huge share of emission output in this world.
A limited use farm tractor- we've made great strides even in the years just prior to Tier 4.
Why isn't that good enough considering the limited number of hours operated and globally how few people own them?
We now have the healthiest unicorns in WA thanks to adopting CA standards... lol

 

[r8nger]

I agree something had to be done about deisel soot. They've come yards in the improvement scale, and with teir 4 they're trying to go another inch, and it is killing mileage and the economy . $10000 repairs are not uncommon on the newer big diesels . What small business can keep absorbing those hits? A lot of people aren't buying new because of this( hurts economy). Prices of reman engines have gone up considerably as people rebuild old stuff.

 

[Oiltech]

I own a M7060 tier 4, it's pretty simple (so far), at certain time intervals a light will come on indicating its time to Regen. Choices are put it in neutral and it automatically increases engine speed and when near complete the rpms are automatically decreased. The second option is to push another button that starts the Regen cycle once engine rpms are satisfied while continuing to work. This machine has 275 hours on it and I am very satisfied with it and have no reservations with the tier 4

 

[Recoveryhill]

Diesel Exhaust:

1995 California Numbers
On road diesel engines produced 15,680 tons of particulate matter
Off road diesel engines produced 9,820 tons of particulate matter
Stationary diesel engines produced 1,400 tons of particulate matter

Your tractor would obviously be included in category two, off road diesel engines. Why is particulate matter from diesel engines particularly dangerous. They contain Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons a proven dangerous substance and nano particles which invade lung tissue much deeper due to their tiny size. Infants and children are more seriously affected by this due to the relative smaller lung tissue volume. Studies have proven that PAH causes lung cancer. All credible health organizations agree on the risk and damage of these pollutants.

I posted the 1995 numbers to show the volume of particulate matter early in diesel emission control systems. No doubt these numbers have fallen dramatically and will continue to fall with more vehicles covered and better systems evolving.

You have no right to create dangerous pollutants that affect the lives of others. Doing that is simply a form of trespass, serious trespass. You have a duty to do your part to prevent this problem, even if it costs you money to do so. It's called the total cost of operating. Sure it would be less expensive for one to dump used motor oil into the ditch and drain ethylene glycol on the ground. That simply shifts the cost from the person using the oil and coolant to everybody else and that is not a fair deal.

 

[445A]

1995 California Numbers
On road diesel engines produced 15,680 tons of particulate matter
Off road diesel engines produced 9,820 tons of particulate matter
Stationary diesel engines produced 1,400 tons of particulate matter

I wonder what those numbers are, almost 20 years later. Tractor/trailer rigs are seeing 3 times better mileage, but there are a LOT more diesel pickups and SUV's on the roads today. IMO We have to pay for clean air, if you don't want to pay, move away. :duh: 445A

 

[buickanddeere]

Tier II was the max limit required on emissions. Anything past into Tier III and Tier IV is not cost nor environmentally effective.

 

[tcartwri]

For any diesel working at a steady rpm and almost always under load, I would not be too concerned about particulate filters and egr's.

 

[tcartwri]

Diesel Exhaust:

1995 California Numbers
On road diesel engines produced 15,680 tons of particulate matter
Off road diesel engines produced 9,820 tons of particulate matter
Stationary diesel engines produced 1,400 tons of particulate matter

Your tractor would obviously be included in category two, off road diesel engines. Why is particulate matter from diesel engines particularly dangerous. They contain Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons a proven dangerous substance and nano particles which invade lung tissue much deeper due to their tiny size. Infants and children are more seriously affected by this due to the relative smaller lung tissue volume. Studies have proven that PAH causes lung cancer. All credible health organizations agree on the risk and damage of these pollutants.

I posted the 1995 numbers to show the volume of particulate matter early in diesel emission control systems. No doubt these numbers have fallen dramatically and will continue to fall with more vehicles covered and better systems evolving.

You have no right to create dangerous pollutants that affect the lives of others. Doing that is simply a form of trespass, serious trespass. You have a duty to do your part to prevent this problem, even if it costs you money to do so. It's called the total cost of operating. Sure it would be less expensive for one to dump used motor oil into the ditch and drain ethylene glycol on the ground. That simply shifts the cost from the person using the oil and coolant to everybody else and that is not a fair deal.

In the 90's I worked briefly in Poland when there was no emissions equipment and high sulfur diesel being burned in everything.... It completely changed my opinion about pollution control. People forget that only a couple of decades ago every fresh water lake east of the Mississippi was dead because of acid rain.

 

[buickanddeere]

tc. We are talking about excessive regulation. Poland needs Tier II and low sulphur, not Tier IV.

 

[sd455dan]

I agree something had to be done about deisel soot. They've come yards in the improvement scale, and with teir 4 they're trying to go another inch, and it is killing mileage and the economy .


i have to agree with this- the whole idea of injecting raw diesel (the diesel that should be used to produce power) to just to raise the exhaust temps seems like a very energy wasteful way to lower emissions...

 

[oldpilgrim]

Why isn't that good enough considering the limited number of hours operated and globally how few people own them?

nothing is ever good enough for those of a particular political philosophy.

 

[Wolfy]

People say that the consumer should pay for "dirty" engines, but the manufacturer should step up and build cleaner and reliable engines at a reasonable price. It really sucks to pay top dollar for a diesel engine these days, and worry if and when it will breakdown.

 

[Navasot]

Sorry if im quoting this wrong im new to the forum but not all T4 Tractors will be using DPF filters or regen processes.

 

[oldpilgrim]

Sorry if im quoting this wrong im new to the forum but not all T4 Tractors will be using DPF filters or regen processes.

correct, Mahindra is one.

"Mahindra mCRD Technology

The new Mahindra mCRD technology is the direct result of a $30 million dollar investment to redesign and engineer our new Tier IV Engines. We've created a turnkey solution without utilizing a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF). This means no excess heat or burn off and less complexity for the operator. The new Mahindra mCRD Tier IV Engines provide a simple solution and reduce gas emissions by over 360 tons per year and meets the new Tier IV emissions standards without the need for a DPF... and still help you Push More, Pull More and Lift More!"