Mowing PTO won't disengage when using brush hog

[k0ua]

wouldn't you be able to determine if the clutch is actually installed by manually turning the pto shaft in reverse rotation ?

It seems like the 'ratchet' mechanism, if installed, would click away if you turned the shaft backwards.

But his by definition does not work, and we don't know for sure it is because the parts are not in there or if something has broken off, and "locked it up" so that it is now solid. The test would not prove anything one way or another.

 

[oldpilgrim]

But his by definition does not work, and we don't know for sure it is because the parts are not in there or if something has broken off, and "locked it up" so that it is now solid. The test would not prove anything one way or another.

I wasn't referring to the OP specifically, but readers in general.

There is lots of confusion here whether there is a clutch or not in that model, not just his.

Other owners and readers of this thread who might not have had need of the clutch, because of the particular implements they use, could check it this way and report back to verify if there actually is/is not a clutch in theirs.

 

[rider7767]

I wasn't referring to the OP specifically, but readers in general.

There is lots of confusion here whether there is a clutch or not in that model, not just his.

Other owners and readers of this thread who might not have had need of the clutch, because of the particular implements they use, could check it this way and report back to verify if there actually is/is not a clutch in theirs.

There is no confusion. Look at the video of my tractor in this thread. Mine works perfectly. I bought my new CK20S with manual transmission in 2013. I have seen others work.
I just can't believe Kioto would remove a safety device like this knowing they are setting themselves up for a lawsuit and/or fine.
It is like GM and those defective ignition switchs. Bean counting.

 

[rider7767]

CK20S PTO Override clutch: http://youtu.be/Xc4SZFLjJZs

 

[k0ua]

I wasn't referring to the OP specifically, but readers in general.

There is lots of confusion here whether there is a clutch or not in that model, not just his.

Other owners and readers of this thread who might not have had need of the clutch, because of the particular implements they use, could check it this way and report back to verify if there actually is/is not a clutch in theirs.

Ok, I see what you mean now. Thanks.

 

[k0ua]

One way, to know, would be to find a new model on a dealers lot, hook a rotary cutter to it, wind it up to 540 PTO speed and push in the clutch, and see what happens.. I would bet a dollar to a doughnut hole that it makes rapid clicking sounds until the cutter spins down.

 

[rider7767]

Have you made any headway with your dealer or KIOTI?

 

[fsrtraveler]

Yes, the explanation from rider7767 is exactly what is happening. I intend to get a written comment from Kioti and follow up on this issue. I have found a temporary repair for now. I got a quick release overriding clutch from Yanmar Tractor Parts - Shop Online for about $80. It works but as an add on it causes other issues and is not a fix for what should have been included internally in the tractor.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Yes, the explanation from rider7767 is exactly what is happening. I intend to get a written comment from Kioti and follow up on this issue. I have found a temporary repair for now. I got a quick release overriding clutch from Yanmar Tractor Parts - Shop Online for about $80. It works but as an add on it causes other issues and is not a fix for what should have been included internally in the tractor.

Youre doing exactly the right things. Good for you and everybody in the long run. Good luck. :thumbsup:

 

[rider7767]

Does your manual give you any type of warnings about the PTO and the problem you are having? I looked at mine, and does not say anything about an implement pushing me over a cliff.

 

[fsrtraveler]

The manual does not address usage of the PTO. Just a lot of safety stuff. I got a written response from Kioti national in North Carolina and they told me that the overriding clutch was removed from the manual transmission CK20S from serial number "Serial numbers that start with HS29-00162". My dealer has been as helpful as possible and in fact paid for the remote overiding clutch that I purchased. He is a new dealer and has to rely on the technical support from the national technical support.

I am amazed at how few dealers for Kioti tractors there are in the United states. I called all of the Kioti dealers in two states when I encountered this problem with my PTO to try and establish what was really going on. I discovered that none of them had any significant experience with Kioti tractors and when speaking with there mechanics I discovered they also did not have much framiliarity with these tractors.

The National office was not much help. I never got past a girl that fielded all customer service calls and relayed information back and forth. Sad that I never got to talk to a technical person about this issue. A tractor that cost as much as it's nearest orange competitor and there is minimal support for the warranty support for their product. I am still amazed that the overiding clutch was taken out of this tractor. That is like taking out the park on an automatic transmission automobile and not telling the customer who is purchasing the car that if they don't put wedges under the wheels when you park the car will roll down the hill.

The real culprit in this whole mess is myself. I did not check out the availability of dealers in the US, I did not research the Kioti product completely, I tried to deal with a local business, I discovered after my purchase that most Kioti dealers don't have certified mechanics and finally I discovered that 90% of the dealers that I called in two states had very little experience with the Kioti product. One of only two dealers in one state had only 2 weeks of dealership with Kioti. I would have to take my tractor over 300 miles just to get minor warranty work done by a certified tractor mechanic.

Live and learn

 

[SPYDERLK]

Its time to make them take the tractor back. You are on the right side of reasonable expectation.

 

[k0ua]

Its time to make them take the tractor back. You are on the right side of reasonable expectation.

Agreed.. or start the class action lawsuit. I suspect the number of tractors produced without the overrunning clutch is very small. I suspect in this size tractor most people choose the hydrostatic transmission model with the independent PTO, but that still does not give the manufacture the right to take out a piece of vital safety equipment when most examples of the model contain it and the diagrams of the model show it.

 

[Beltman60]

I can't believe in this day and age that Kioti would be so irresponsible and take out a safety feature and not even tell the consumer :mur:

 

[ritcheyvs]

... I am amazed at how few dealers for Kioti tractors there are in the United states. ...
The National office was not much help. ...

IMO, this is Kioti's main problem. The actual tractors are great, with some exceptions (like your missing clutch and injection pump failures). But Kioti US, the US distributor, is very little help unless plausibly threatened with legal action. Kioti US defers almost everything to their dealers but they also fired many of their dealers 3-4 years ago. Maybe some of those dealers were bad apples? My former dealer told me that Kioti US dropped him because he could not afford to buy $350K of their machines to display on his lot. He had a small operation with a Deere dealer across the road and Mahindra, Kubota, and Massey dealers nearby; so there was no way he could sell that many tractors in the 2010-2011 economy.

On the flip side. many Kioti owners have been forced to learn things about their machines and they (along with some dealers and former dealers) are happy to share those lessons learned with other owners. You will often see owners of other brands on this active Kioti forum.

 

[rider7767]

The manual does not address usage of the PTO. Just a lot of safety stuff. I got a written response from Kioti national in North Carolina and they told me that the overriding clutch was removed from the manual transmission CK20S from serial number "Serial numbers that start with HS29-00162". My dealer has been as helpful as possible and in fact paid for the remote overiding clutch that I purchased. He is a new dealer and has to rely on the technical support from the national technical support.

I am amazed at how few dealers for Kioti tractors there are in the United states. I called all of the Kioti dealers in two states when I encountered this problem with my PTO to try and establish what was really going on. I discovered that none of them had any significant experience with Kioti tractors and when speaking with there mechanics I discovered they also did not have much framiliarity with these tractors.

The National office was not much help. I never got past a girl that fielded all customer service calls and relayed information back and forth. Sad that I never got to talk to a technical person about this issue. A tractor that cost as much as it's nearest orange competitor and there is minimal support for the warranty support for their product. I am still amazed that the overiding clutch was taken out of this tractor. That is like taking out the park on an automatic transmission automobile and not telling the customer who is purchasing the car that if they don't put wedges under the wheels when you park the car will roll down the hill.

The real culprit in this whole mess is myself. I did not check out the availability of dealers in the US, I did not research the Kioti product completely, I tried to deal with a local business, I discovered after my purchase that most Kioti dealers don't have certified mechanics and finally I discovered that 90% of the dealers that I called in two states had very little experience with the Kioti product. One of only two dealers in one state had only 2 weeks of dealership with Kioti. I would have to take my tractor over 300 miles just to get minor warranty work done by a certified tractor mechanic.

Live and learn

Well, as best as I can tell, the year Kioti had taken out the PTO overrun clutch, is a big fat lie. :smiley_aafz: My tractor has this safety feature and it was made in 2011. See picture and attachment below. According to what they told you, they stopped putting the PTO overrun clutch in around 2008. This is going to be a battle and that is the problem. The company's bean counters are gambling that you will not take this to a lawyer and stick with it. How ever I think a lawyer may take this since the Kioti company intentionally removed a safety feature putting you and your family at risk. I don't understand why they would do that in this day and age. When this tractor will not stop and causes someone to run head on into a tree or worse, it is millions of dollars:judge: law suit time.

 

[rider7767]

I would wear this link out putting in complaints.
Comments or Concerns | Kioti Tractors
I would also reference this thread by pasting a link in your message to them.

I think KIOTI makes a solid machine, but this will make me double think buying another Kioti. To bad for them too, because I will be in the Market for a larger machine next year. And to think, at one time I pondered opening a Kioti dealership. :duh:

 

[ksbrdmkr]

I wonder if the shipping crate got mixed up and a foreign destination tractor was mixed in with a US shipment. Do some countries get stripped down tractors without the required safety items of the US?

 

[rider7767]

I wonder if the shipping crate got mixed up and a foreign destination tractor was mixed in with a US shipment. Do some countries get stripped down tractors without the required safety items of the US?

I have the European/ Australian repair manual and it shows the PTO override.

 

[OVRxNxOUT]

Sounds like to me you may have a couple problems, I've been with a kubota dealer for 8 years as well as dealing Bobcat skid units. I do know the Kioti and Bobcat tractors are the same, bobcat just rebrands the kiosk, but we don't have the bobcat tractor line, but to the point, it sounds like to me there may be more than one issue depending on how the tractor/trams/pto type is & it's set up. If the tractor still rolls and you have to hit the brake, I would ask what does this do to your tractor engine rpm? Does it dip? After you stop the mower blades & drive stops so does the pro then disengage without grinding? When you hook it up is the tractor running? (Bad idea btw) the pto may slowly always spin with the tractor running, on some machines. But does it spin relevant to engine rpm? I ask this this of course with the pto lever disengaged. Without being in front of the machine it would seem like if your hitting the brake the momentum of the spinning blades propells you forward so your main clutch is not disengaging from the tranny. But maybe whatever is causing the error in the main clutch can be also doing the same for the PTO clutch packs to not disengage. Have you check your fluid levels? It could be simple and be something like to much pressure in the tranny from being over full, it does happen. Check your fluid levels and how long has it been since you changed your had filter(s) some have two, suction & return. Also just a reminder as this wouldn't be effecting this situation but while on the subject of fluid, remember that most all implements don't come with the gear boxes filled with fluid, it's a hazard for freighting so always check & use 80/90 gear oil or check your manual for fluid weight. You would be surprised how many problems a new filter will take care of. ~JP~