Hilarious. On a local forum where I asked for advice, somebody is trying to explain to me why the B3350 isn't big enough and I should get an L-series...
Buying Advice Overwhelmed by All the Options!
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Hilarious. On a local forum where I asked for advice, somebody is trying to explain to me why the B3350 isn't big enough and I should get an L-series...
I went to the LS dealer over lunch (It's only 8 miles from here) and he recommended an XR3037H. That tractor with the loader, the mid-PTO and a 68" snowblower (That was incredibly stout looking!) was $28.4k with loaded tires, including taxes and such. Forks add about $700. That's about the same price as the B3350 or the 2032R and this tractor is way more capable. However, it's also bigger and it felt too big to me (remember it has to live in my residential garage and maneuver around the trees in the woods).
Also, the "integration" was poor. The hydrostatic pedals stuck way up from the floor, most of the switches felt junky and their locations seemed like an after-thought. Also, the loader valve is series instead of parallel, so I couldn't lift and tilt the bucket simultaneously. I think that the tractor is capable of doing a ton of work, but I also think it was built to a price-point. I wish I could have that snowblower on the 2032R or the B3350, but I doubt that the smaller tractors are up to throwing that much snow.
MessickFarmEqu
Super Member
generally flails don't require huge amounts of power. gotta remember, the engine HP on these things grows and grows year after year. We often sell way more HP than is really needed in a given size frame.
arrow
Super Member
Small tractors can throw quite a bit of snow with the correct sized blower especially if the small tractor has the same engine that is used in a larger tractor.
rmorey
Platinum Member
Have you considered a pull type blower for the rear. Savings are hugh and it works very well, especially in deeper snow. Then you dont need the mid pto. On my 6' blower, the savings were about $4K!
I think Messicks makes a good point of about HP reqmt's for Flails. My understanding is that the rule of thumb is 4-5 PTO hp for every foot on a Flail. I think the 2032R is rated at 23.5 PTO hp.
John
I've been reading the enormous thread on flails on this forum (I'm to about page 95). I do see the 4 or 5 PTO HP/ft numbers for the flail thrown around pretty often, but then some say that you want more for cutting scrub or brush. I'm looking to use this flail to clear the brush from the small woods we have. It is very thick and overgrown. So I'm reading the thread trying to figure out if the 2032R's 23.5 PTO HP is "good enough," or if a flail mower is even the right tool for that job.
I am also having a really hard time buying a tractor.
I like the control layout and "feel" of the Deere (just my impression/personal preference), and it seems much easier to switch from snowblower to loader and back on that one than on the Kubota. The Deere is also a bit (~$1k) cheaper than the Kubota. Deere's mid-mount mower looks nicer and is easier to put on and off than Kubota's, in case I end up with one of those.
However, the B3350 has 1.5 more engine HP and 3 more PTO HP. The front loader and rear hitch both lift a bit more than the Deere (Although the Deere has a higher breakout force on the loader?). Even though it's a bit of a pain to put the front sub-frame on and off, the Kubota snowblower is 9" wider, which seems like a very good thing.
I know a lot of you guys are reading this and thinking, "It's just a baby tractor! Buy one and be done with it!" But it's hard because I don't have a good feel for what these power levels and capabilities will mean in the real world. If I could buy the 2032R and know that I wouldn't wish I had those extra 3 PTO horse (10% more) or find out that the loader is over-taxed trying to pull reasonably sized logs out of the woods or using the forks to lift random things, then I think my decision would be made.
I did consider them. In this case, it wouldn't save me any money. That's because the tractors I'm considering have mid-PTO standard (and I want mid-PTO in case I ever get a belly mower) and because the pull-type blowers that I've seen cost as much as the front-mount blowers the Kubota and Deere dealer are offering. They do look to be heavier-duty though. Depending on what the tractor has standard, I'd have to add a rear-remote to work the chute rotation. What I'd gain is the ability to leave the loader on during winter, which would be handy. But another disadvantage I was considering is that you have to drive over all the snow you're going to blow. That would be asking a lot of the little tractors I'm considering after a heavy snow because part of my driveway has a steep grade. I also like the idea of having a box scraper on the back to pull snow out of corners.
Good suggestion though. As you can tell from this thread, I have a lot to learn!
varmint
Elite Member
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2003
- Messages
- 2,579
- Location
- Northern Maryland
- Tractor
- Kubota B8200, then a Kubota L3130 HST, now a Kubota L3400 HST
I'm no expert, so my opinions are just that, but my impressions of Deere vs. Kubota when I considered which replacement tractor to get this past winter (new Deere's, used Kubotas) were that the Kubotas were generally better quality. Some of the smaller Deere tractors (don't know about the 2032R) seem to use aluminum where some of us believe iron is a better choice, like in the rear end/ three point areas. As for power, less doesn't mean you can't do it, just not as fast. Power equals fuel consumed, another small factor to be considered if you will using it for long hours. In my case, I settled on maybe low power but high weight- 31 HP in a tractor that must weigh over 4600 lbs with attachments. That weight will be your friend in snow and when seeking traction. It took a wee bit to get used to my L3130's hst pedal, but no problem. Unless you have size 14 boots?
TSO
Elite Member
...However, it's also bigger and it felt too big to me (remember it has to live in my residential garage and maneuver around the trees in the woods)...[/QUOTE]
I understand... But, and take it from someone who is on his 4th tractor in 3 years, tractors will shrink within a week of use (pretty common view point on this forum). You may find that you will quickly outgrow an apparently "right sized" tractor.
I personally started with a Kioti CK20. It was a great little tractor but I out grew it. At the same time, my buddy got a B2920, same physical size as the CK20, more HP but less lift than the Kioti. (I'm only pointing that out to reference my experience with this size range). I was amazed at how much I could do with that tractor. However, there was a point where I reached its' weight, size, and power limitations.
It's generally far less expensive in the long run to get the proper sized tractor right from the start. Although, if you get "too small" now, it gives you a reason to tractor shop again soon
I understand... But, and take it from someone who is on his 4th tractor in 3 years, tractors will shrink within a week of use (pretty common view point on this forum). You may find that you will quickly outgrow an apparently "right sized" tractor.
I personally started with a Kioti CK20. It was a great little tractor but I out grew it. At the same time, my buddy got a B2920, same physical size as the CK20, more HP but less lift than the Kioti. (I'm only pointing that out to reference my experience with this size range). I was amazed at how much I could do with that tractor. However, there was a point where I reached its' weight, size, and power limitations.
It's generally far less expensive in the long run to get the proper sized tractor right from the start. Although, if you get "too small" now, it gives you a reason to tractor shop again soon
I definitely understand that and I don't want to get something that is frustratingly under-capable.
I personally started with a Kioti CK20. It was a great little tractor but I out grew it. At the same time, my buddy got a B2920, same physical size as the CK20, more HP but less lift than the Kioti. (I'm only pointing that out to reference my experience with this size range). I was amazed at how much I could do with that tractor. However, there was a point where I reached its' weight, size, and power limitations.
It's generally far less expensive in the long run to get the proper sized tractor right from the start. Although, if you get "too small" now, it gives you a reason to tractor shop again soon
I'm looking at the highest HP they offer in the smaller frame tractors I've been looking at. How much land are you roaming with that 1648 you have? I don't doubt that it's awesome, but it's too wide to get in anywhere between the trees I want to clean up around and that one is clearly too big. I'm trying to understand if the L-series is also too big. Remember, I'm on 4.2 acres with quite a bit of that used up by a house and two long drives. My landscaping projects won't be nearly as most people's on these forums.
This is for sale at a dealer near me:
http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=8579743
It's equipped the way I'd have them quote me a new one except for the tires. I suppose that since it's used I could buy it, try it for a couple seasons and then trade it on something else if I decide I would be happier with something smaller? If I negotiate a reasonable price (which I'd need help with), then I may not take too big a haircut if I decide it's not the right tractor for my small lot.
TSO
Elite Member
I definitely wouldn't spend $18,700 on a 14 yr old tractor with 2000+ hrs.
Kubota makes a fine tractor, but they aren't without their problems (my buddy has had two new 'bota's in 4 years, both have had issues, the most recent one needed the tractor split. They were covered under warranty so all is good). Any tractor can have problems, but repairs can be expensive!
If I was dropping $18k ... it better have a warranty! (My personal opinion)
I use my Massey on 15 acres. I also use it commercially. (I've put 300 hrs on her in the last 7 months). Excellent machine, no issues. There are times when I could use more HP, so I think you're making the right decision to get the most HP that you can (can't add that later).
I do use it in the woods, and it is definitely more cumbersome than my little CK20 was. (When I can afford it, I'd like to add another small tractor again, both for the wife to use, and for the tight little jobs that the bigger one can't get to). But, even with the CAB, I go into my woods quite often. You do have to be more cautious with the cab, and more deliberate because of the size ... But the cab also protects you from errant branches, hornets, etc. And if I break the glass, my $150 deductible buys a new one
Another option from LS (I bring them up because they're such a great value) would be a G3038h (same as New Holland WorkMaster 35). A slightly less optioned tractor but at 38 HP, the power is there. The loader is respectable, and you can probably get into one for around $16k. At that price, you can quickly learn if the size is too big or small.
Also, looks like Massey isn't too far from you (looks like 5 AGCO dealers within 60 miles). Check them out too. From MY personal experience, of the tractor brands that I've had direct experience with (Kioti, LS [and by proxy NH & Case], Massey, Kubota)... MF has been the best. That's my experience anyhow, YMMV .
I've seen the 1734e HST with loader advertised for around $23k. The 1739e (39 HP) would probably be around $25k...
...
Not trying to talk you into any particular tractor, just giving you shopping options to consider.
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So what is the consensus on what that tractor is worth with the bucket, forks and snowblower? Are they so optimistic on the price that it's not worth talking to them or should I go in, give it a drive and low-ball them if it seems to work well?
And I've never had to pay for tractor parts before. I see it's missing the handles on the fenders. How much will I spend putting those back on? And the tires are starting to get worn. What am I looking at to replace those when the time comes? Just ballpark figures is fine. I thought I was going to be buying new and wouldn't have to worry about that kind of maintenance for awhile...
TSO
Elite Member
I'm not saying that it's a bad price, or that it's not worth the price... I'm just saying that I wouldn't personally spend that much on a 12 yr old tractor with 2000 hrs, especially when you can buy brand new, with warranty, for not much more.
Tires would probably be around $1000-1500 for all 4. Fender handles, maybe $100? Then what about the hoses (they do wear out), lift cylinders (might need rebuild at that age/hrs), etc etc.
Again, I'm not saying it's a bad tractor, it might be nice. I just wouldn't spend $18k hard earned dollars on one.
Tires would probably be around $1000-1500 for all 4. Fender handles, maybe $100? Then what about the hoses (they do wear out), lift cylinders (might need rebuild at that age/hrs), etc etc.
Again, I'm not saying it's a bad tractor, it might be nice. I just wouldn't spend $18k hard earned dollars on one.
jeff9366
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2011
- Messages
- 12,787
- Tractor
- Kubota Tractor Loader L3560 HST+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 3,700 pounds bare tractor, 5,400 pounds operating weight, 37 horsepower
In the real world you will not notice 1-2-3-4 horsepower difference between tractors. In my opinion, based on three tractors I have owned, it takes a 50% horsepower increase before you REALLY notice it.
Don't take any of the factory force specs as the gospel. No one certifies the numbers and every producer likely fudges…..some.
You should not plan to pull logs out of the woods with the FEL. Skidding logs should be done from the Three Point Hitch, with the proper skidding gear installed on it. I am attaching a few pictures of my prior Kubota B3300SU skidding logs.
It seems to me you have made a strong case for purchasing the Deere 2032R.
Attachments
varmint
Elite Member
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2003
- Messages
- 2,579
- Location
- Northern Maryland
- Tractor
- Kubota B8200, then a Kubota L3130 HST, now a Kubota L3400 HST
I would suggest that $18K is pretty high for that L3130- I bought a 2007 L3130, with just over a 1000 hours, and the larger quick attach bucket, for $12,500. I have no idea about the snowblower's value, but forks can be had for $500 new. My tractor is very clean, no damage of any sort, and I have no doubt I could sell it for what I have in it. I did spend a couple days cleaning it up, etc., but it looks like a 100 hour machine. Of course, being a follower of Paul Shorts, I have done some small mods to it, light lighting, voltmeter, etc. The only photo I have available right now is the bucket, after I cleaned it up and repainted it.
A new L-series with the loader, forks and blower is going to be around twice that price, right? I don't have a quote on one, but the quote I have for a B3350 Hydrostatic is $29,700 to my door. The L-series has got to be more than that.
Great point on the condition of the hoses, cylinders, bearings, etc. And it's still a 31 HP machine. It will have way more grunt for lifting and pulling, but it has 24 HP at the PTO so it can't run anything bigger off the PTO than the smaller machines I'm looking at can.
TSO
Elite Member
Sounds like you are pretty firm on Kubota... But $29,700 seems really expensive for a non cab B series tractor. I wouldn't pay more than $15-16k for a tractor that size, though I don't know what they're charging you for the front mount blower
I'm not firm on Kubota. It was just what made sense to me to compare the L-series to. I also have a quote on a Deere 2032R. With the loader, bucket, forks, front-blower and a ballast box it is ~$28,750 to my door.
These are "out the door" prices. So that includes freight, assembly, taxes and delivery.
