Backhoe L48 sub frame broke

Happy Gilmore · Sep 22, 2014

I can't imagine that much water getting in there, remaining and ultimately freezing. It's bizarre, I'm agreeing with others who have posted regarding a defect in the steel. I'd really put some more pressure on the rep, you invested a lot of money on that machine new.

skyhook · Sep 22, 2014

I think Pepsiboy hit it on the head,
there was probably a slight crack before hand, it filled with water and rusted shut.

NoNewParts · Sep 22, 2014

messtrap said:
No openings, it's a boxed frame made of rectangular tubular steel. Kubota rep thought it was from condensation.

condensation...wow...he is really grasping at straws there.
We don't even have to get into the impossibility of filling a space that big without a damp air entrance.....
Enough condensation to fill that tube would also have GALLONS of condensation water in the engine, trans, and rearend.....was there?
you live where it's cold, you know how relentless ice is. Tube would have bulged the entire length until it couldn't bulge no more,
then it would split the entire length, not just in one little spot.
Obvious steel or weld flaw there.

Gator6x4 · Sep 22, 2014

Gary Fowler said:
Your Kubota dealer if full of BS. No way for condensation to form in a sealed area. There has to be a hole in the frame somewhere,possibly two with one or more on top of the frame and a drain hole that is stopped up which caused the frame to fill with water. In order for ice to split the box frame, it had to be completely full of water. You need to look more closely to find the hole(s).
I think I would look for a welder to weld up the split if no other damage is evident.
Is the $850 the cost of the frame and the rest labor to install?

Agree with that. I saw another piece of rectangular tubing that was swelled one time. The welder advised something about heat and gasses trapped caused it. Not being a welder I took his word. You may question a welding shop and see if what I was told is possible.

Gary Fowler · Sep 22, 2014

Gator6x4 said:
Agree with that. I saw another piece of rectangular tubing that was swelled one time. The welder advised something about heat and gasses trapped caused it. Not being a welder I took his word. You may question a welding shop and see if what I was told is possible.

Heating water would cause a bulge but just like Ice, it would swell the whole tubing and not just in a few spots prior to bursting. Also it takes enough heat to boil the water (above 212F) AND it would take a long time to build up enough pressure to burst the tubing. As in just welding a clip or something on it, would not produce enough steam to cause rupture.

I cant see how ice damaged just a few areas. If it had dips in it where all the water would settle, yes, but a long straight tube is unlikely to swell just one area then skip and area.
When you removed it, was it completely full of water?
Something really strange going on there.

messtrap · Sep 22, 2014

Here are the pics off the tractor, pics with frame resting on ground are the bottom of the frame, pics standing up are top of frame. Shot both sides of the frame so comparisons could be made.

rbargeron · Sep 22, 2014

You were right - the picture is worth a lot of words. The ballooning of the tube looks like repeated freezing and thawing over the winter of a full load of water, each cycle adding to the deformation. There had to be a crack somewhere allowing water to go in - with no way out.

messtrap · Sep 22, 2014

with the exception of the open crack, there is nothing else that penetrates that steel. I went over it with a fine tooth comb today. the new frame was suppose to come tomorrow, dealer called today, he called kubota this morning and it wont be here until next monday. they had to fabricate it. can't fix the hydraulic problem until i get the frame on. my faith in the orange is slowly disappearing.

Pepsiboy · Sep 22, 2014

messtrap said:
View attachment 391575 View attachment 391574 View attachment 391573 View attachment 391572 View attachment 391571 View attachment 391570 View attachment 391569 View attachment 391568
Here are the pics off the tractor, pics with frame resting on ground are the bottom of the frame, pics standing up are top of frame. Shot both sides of the frame so comparisons could be made.

messtrap,
What I see in pic 1, 3, and 5 tells me that the metal was defective from the start. When the frame was FORMED, there was a lamination at the point where it was formed. In the lamination there was probably some dirt or rust. This STARTED the bend to fail. USUALLY this type of defect can be seen by inspection at the factory. HOWEVER, there are times that it does not show up until a long time later. When it does, it fails. IMHO, I would try to get dealer to help you get the replacement free or at least at a VERY reduced cost. :2cents: Best of luck. Let me know what happens. :thumbsup:

Dave

messtrap · Sep 22, 2014

I understand what u r saying pepsiboy and will give it another "crack". Probably a losing battle, it took 3.5 months just to tell me I "need a new frame" from kubota's engineers. The next line was "there is nothing we can do for you".
My dealer battled for me and got them to give me 850.00 toward a new frame.

Pepsiboy · Sep 23, 2014

messtrap,

Good luck to you ! ! :thumbsup: I know how frustrating it can be.

ullinghair: Unfortunately

, the only FIX is to replace. Best luck getting it done. I hope it doesn't ding the budget too hard. :shocked:

Dave

skyhook · Sep 23, 2014

I don't know, but I would think a good "welder, fabricator," could cut out the defective side
and replace it with a new tube.
I would take the 850$ and check to see if that "bad" section could be replaced,
I could be wrong but i don't see why it couldn't.

messtrap · Sep 23, 2014

skyhook said:
I don't know, but I would think a good "welder, fabricator," could cut out the defective side
and replace it with a new tube.
I would take the 850$ and check to see if that "bad" section could be replaced,
I could be wrong but i don't see why it couldn't.

It can be replaced, at about 1000.00. With the 850.00 and the dealers discount after it arrives the new one is just under 1300.00. Tough decision, but now I know the steel is correct and also the tolerances, hate to have it repaired, bring it home and go to install it and oh no! That side swelling drew the frame in enough to make it tough to get the backhoe on and off. With any luck someone out there sooner or later will need a frame (who welds and can fix it) and for a few bucks they can have this one.

Pepsiboy · Sep 24, 2014

messtrap said:
It can be replaced, at about 1000.00. With the 850.00 and the dealers discount after it arrives the new one is just under 1300.00. Tough decision, but now I know the steel is correct and also the tolerances, hate to have it repaired, bring it home and go to install it and oh no! That side swelling drew the frame in enough to make it tough to get the backhoe on and off. With any luck someone out there sooner or later will need a frame (who welds and can fix it) and for a few bucks they can have this one.

messtrap,

I know, VERY tough decision.

If it were ME, I would take the financial hit and be SURE that it would PROPERLY fit. If they will let you KEEP the damaged frame, I would store if (if possible) and sell (like you said) to someone WILLING and ABLE to re-weld in a new piece (I'd rather not). :thumbdown:

Best of luck and I hope this does not sour you on Big Orange ! ! ! :cool2:

Dave

JRL305 · Sep 24, 2014

How does the other side look? Were all of the big, frame bolts tight? I suspect the possibility of stress or flex also. It's hard to tell just looking at your pics but don't rule that out too. Just thank your lucky stars that nothing like engine or drivetrain were affected.

PILOON · Sep 24, 2014

What I'd be very inclined to do is to drill a small, say 1/2" hole in order to pour in about one quart of oil in each tube and carefully plugging afterwards. Maybe even welding a threaded pipe fitting that could then take a standard pipe thread plug. (type of weldable thread as used to fabricate fuel tanks).
Inside oil is your best defense against internal rusting.

Around here we oil all hidden metal car surfaces and frames to maximize our vehicle life.
Aviation also oils inside of aircraft tubular structures. (raw linseed oil was a favorite preventative as it clings)
NB a round hole does not weaken a structure when properly located and de burred.

rbargeron · Sep 24, 2014

PILOON said:
..........Around here we oil all hidden metal car surfaces and frames to maximize our vehicle life..........

That's getting more common in New England too - coating with Fluid Film - lanolin wax based.

messtrap · Sep 24, 2014

Thanks, that sounds like a great idea.

bumperm · Sep 25, 2014

In aviation, older rag and tube planes, coating the inside of the tubes is common practice. Boiled linseed oil is used for this, poured into the tubing, rotated around to cover all inside surfaces, then the tube is sealed back up again. Commonly done with wing struts also, to prevent internal corrosion.

No need to make a larger hole for this, 1/8" to 3/16" is more than enough. Once coated you can either weld the small hole over to seal it, or tap threads in the hole and seal with a machine screw.

bumper

Ducati07 · Sep 25, 2014

messtrap,

Sorry to hear about your troubles and I'm not surprised one bit that Kubota is not standing behind their product 100%.

They also left me hanging (with a brand new tractor) with issues! Their customer service and warranty is a joke.

I'll be extending my insurance once it expires!